V2L function to power the house?

[thingaby]

There is a buzz around 'balcony solar' and using batteries (with inverter) as a source of power for the house electrics. Can I do the same with my car's V2L facility.?

 

[Catsailor]

There is a buzz around 'balcony solar' and using batteries (with inverter) as a source of power for the house electrics. Can I do the same with my car's V2L facility.?

I bought one of these
Pardon our interruption...
The battery won't power a whole house but if we have a power cut, using an extension lead, I can boil a small kettle, run the TV and huddle under a heated throw.

 

[Andy L]

I would be wary of doing that. The balcony solar things max out at 800w I think the Mg v2l is 2300w. Unless you disconnect from the grid wouldn't you be pushing 240v straight into the car via a dodgy v2l adaptor. I wouldn't attempt it personally.

 

[Catsailor]

I would be wary of doing that. The balcony solar things max out at 800w I think the Mg v2l is 2300w. Unless you disconnect from the grid wouldn't you be pushing 240v straight into the car via a dodgy v2l adaptor. I wouldn't attempt it personally.

Confusion. I'm taking power out not putting it in.

 

[Andy L]

you said to "power the house" I assumed you were going to plug into a 13 amp socket with the v2l lead as this is how the balcony solar works. if just plugging say the tumble dryer into an extension from the car sure you can do that as I have done it myself.

 

[Bam Bam]

There is a buzz around 'balcony solar' and using batteries (with inverter) as a source of power for the house electrics. Can I do the same with my car's V2L facility.?

The short answer is 'no.' Unless you mean to run an extension cable to power one thing in the house through an open window.

The long answer is that there might be a possibility if you've got the skills and know-how.

Option 1:
If you are an electrician you could potentially wire up an in-house socket to run off the car.

Option 2:
You could set up a complicated system like @johnb80 has (as explained in several threads like this one). This involves going via an intermediary inverter and battery system that smooths everything out. He hasn't convinced all the experts on here, though it clearly works.

You can look into the possibilities but it sounds far too complicated for many of us to attempt for the moment.

 

[Everest]

There is a buzz around 'balcony solar' and using batteries (with inverter) as a source of power for the house electrics. Can I do the same with my car's V2L facility.?

To follow on from @Bam Bam...

The short answer is 'no'; a ZS EV will not fit on your balcony.

The long answer is 'yes'; especially with option 2 as detailed above.

He hasn't convinced all the experts on here that it is fully safe in all conditions, though it clearly works.

Not sure why you say that? There are no safety issues with what @johnb80 is doing whatsoever. The AC power from the EV is passing through an isolated switched mode PSU to charge existing low-voltage batteries. Those batteries are already connected to and power an ENA type tested and G99 compliant grid-tied inverter; with all the necessary anti-islanding safety cut-out mechanisms in place and using existing earthing and RCD protection.

 

[hmadsen]

The V2L is mostly meant to power small'ish loads like stuff on a camping trip.

You could power the house but you only get about 10A, so you would not be able to run anytghing powerhungry like stoves or ovens.

I made the cable to do V2L and if power outages became a thing here and i wanted to power the house i would do it like this.

Install an outdoor socket, wire it into the electrical box, put in a "Break before make" switch.

This would essentially make it possible to isolate the house from the grid and connect your own car to the house wiring.

2 things though....

1. It would have to be connected to your house electricity AFTER the grid meter, otherwise any usage would be counted by the meter and you would be billed.

2. It should only really be used to run stuff like lights and fridge and freezer, to prevent everything from thawing.

In my case it would be a bit harder, we have 3 phase here in Denmark and everything is divided between the phases, so if i just added power to one of the phases, only some of the appliances would run and only some of the light would come on.

PS. All of the above would be highly illegal for me to do myself here, i need a certified electrician to do the work if it is to be legal, here atleast.

 

[Everest]

I made the cable to do V2L and if power outages became a thing here and i wanted to power the house i would do it like this.

Install an outdoor socket, wire it into the electrical box, put in a "Break before make" switch.

This would essentially make it possible to isolate the house from the grid and connect your own car to the house wiring.

2 things though....

1. It would have to be connected to your house electricity AFTER the grid meter, otherwise any usage would be counted by the meter and you would be billed.

2. It should only really be used to run stuff like lights and fridge and freezer, to prevent everything from thawing.

You make no mention of a) earthing and b) RCD protection Unless you have the skills and knowledge of such, your suggestion would be potentially lethal. Do not try this at home!

 

[Bam Bam]

To follow on from @Bam Bam...

The short answer is 'no'; a ZS EV will not fit on your balcony.

Haha!

The long answer is 'yes'; especially with option 2 as detailed above.

Not sure why you say that? There are no safety issues with what @johnb80 is doing whatsoever.

Fair enough - perhaps just shows how I didn't really understand the debate that was going on there!

It seemed like people were disagreeing about something, maybe it wasn't safety after all.

 

[Catsailor]

I thought the maximum power from the V2L function was 2.2kw. Travel kettle, TV, heated throw plus LED sidelight. Low wattage 1kw, fan heater if you disconnect the kettle.

 

[Bam Bam]

1. It would have to be connected to your house electricity AFTER the grid meter, otherwise any usage would be counted by the meter and you would be billed.

2. It should only really be used to run stuff like lights and fridge and freezer, to prevent everything from thawing.

If it was summer and there was no power I'd be happy to use the V2L and our long extension cable going through a window into our living room with four sockets to run:

1. Fridge/freezer
2. Lamp
3. Router
4. Other - Laptop maybe? Microwave or kettle if we needed to heat something.

I would not want to do this in the winter, though, because leaving a window open would with no heating on would be absolutely freezing.

As it is, we have a backup system for the whole house, though it can only provide 16a so we would have to be very careful not to overload it.

I thought the maximum power from the V2L function was 2.2kw. Travel kettle, TV, heated throw plus LED sidelight. Low wattage 1kw, fan heater if you disconnect the kettle.

I can confirm it will boil a regular kettle, but more slowly than when it is connected to a grid socket

 

[Everest]

I thought the maximum power from the V2L function was 2.2kw.

That is the power that the MG V2L adapter will supply. There is AFAIAA no specification to the limit. Others have achieved more using a custom cable with a different value resistor - see

New V2L Specification MG4/MG5/ZS

So I managed to get my hands on an official MG V2L cable and noticed a few interesting changes. 1. The sense resistor has a much higher value than previously used at 2k ohm (420 ohm to 470 ohm has been the values used thus far) 2. No connection on the CP, since the new MG4 and MG5 launched we...

www.speakev.com

Travel kettle, TV, heated throw plus LED sidelight. Low wattage 1kw, fan heater if you disconnect the kettle.

provided you only use Class II devices attached to the supply.

If it was summer and there was no power I'd be happy to use the V2L and our long extension cable going through a window into our living room with four sockets to run:

1. Fridge/freezer

A fridge / freezer is not (usually) a Class II device. Class I appliances require a functional earth and RCD protection which a regular V2L supply does not have.

 

[Bam Bam]

A fridge / freezer is not (usually) a Class II device. Class I appliances require a functional earth and RCD protection which a regular V2L supply does not have.

Thanks for that.

Good job I've never had to do this and now we've got a backup system with earthing we hopefully shouldn't have to!

 

[Gadget Geek]

When we had a scheduled power outage for work on the cables in the street, I ran the fridge/freezer, kettle, air frier, microwave (not all at the same time), router, computer, TV and freeview box. Just make sure you use the high power devices one at a time.

 

[Bam Bam]

When we had a scheduled power outage for work on the cables in the street, I ran the fridge/freezer, kettle, air frier, microwave (not all at the same time), router, computer, TV and freeview box. Just make sure you use the high power devices one at a time.

Yeah, the only time I used the V2L in anger was when we were having our EV charger and home backup system installed.

I plugged in router, kettle and a lamp so I could carry on working from home during the upgrade.

 

[Catsailor]

When my late father got too old to change a wheel if he had a puncture I bought him a canister that would reinflate his tyre, seal the puncture and enable him to get home. He never had to use it. I'm operating on the same principle with the v2l. As long as it works and I've got it we should never have a power cut and therefore never need it.

 

[hmadsen]

A fridge / freezer is not (usually) a Class II device. Class I appliances require a functional earth and RCD protection which a regular V2L supply does not have.

I am curious as to what an RCD would do for me if i run something off of the V2L.

This is my thinking, please correct me if im wrong.

The V2L in a car is essentially an IT system, meaning it is isolated from ground.

RCD measures if current is lost to ground and trips if it detects less current returning, compared to what is being "sent".

Lets imagine i plug in my freezer that is metal and one of the wires touch the chassis of the freezer.

In a normal Earth Referenced system like the grid, this would mean, if i touch the chassis of the freezer, would be able to send current through the chassis into my hand and then to ground, tripping the RCD.

But with the system in the car being IT, it has no reference to ground so touching one wire should not actually make a completed circuit that you would feel and since no power is lost, the RCD would not trip anyways.


Please tell me where i am wrong here ?

PS. I get that if i were to touch both wires i would be electrocuted, but since the system is not ground tied, it would not trip any inline RCD anyways would it, as the current is not "lost" when it goes through he and nothing is "leaving" the system. ?

 

[gonzo]

Engineer head on....

The inverter in the car is designed to power a load, and not drive an existing supply, as plug-in solar does.
That would need a grid-tie inverter. Which is what you would have in a V2G system.
Trying to connect the car's V2L output to a house system would result in an expensive bang. And probably a lot of interesting questions from your DNO.

The options I see to achiever this safely....
1 - Install a transfer relay on the house incoming grid supply. And connect this to the car's V2L. That would disconnect the incoming grid and use the car instead.
You would probably need a V2L that will supply more than a 13A plug. I recall seeing that my ZS should be capable of 7kW (if they hadn't have deleted the option just before U brought.... Buggers.)
This would give you a backup supply to the house, in the event of a grid outage.

2 - Use the V2L output to power a DC power supply. Then feed this into an approved grid-tie inverter (when specs emerge such devices appear).
Setting the GTI to run during the day, and the car to charge during cheap off peak rates.
This would allow you to load shift using the car's battery.

However... both would require a lot a lot of charging lead/V2L swapping, or hacking your charger about. And DIY engineering.

In the event of an outage, I think I'd prefer to just string an extension lead into the house to power some items for a few hours.
If you are likely to have outages longer than that, I'd have battery lanterns charged and on standby, a portable gas stove, usb power banks etc. Leaving the charge in the car for when you need transport.

And to load shift, I'd be looking at having a stand alone hybrid inverter and a stack of batteries. Saves aging your car's battery unnecessarily. And using kit designed specifically to be efficient at doing that job.

 

[johnb80]

He hasn't convinced all the experts on here that it is fully safe in all conditions, though it clearly works.

Sorry Bam Bam, I have to take exception to this, what I do IS safe, it presents no danger to people or equipment.