Vehicle to Load (V2L) - Any Information or First Hand Experiences?

adiel

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[ Edit Coulomb: There are many other V2L threads, e.g. V2L, V2H, V2G - How does it work with MG EVs?, V2L - Useful?, DIY V2L, etc. Title-only search for V2L. ]

Does anyone know how to get hold of a Vehicle 2 Load (V2L) lead to use with the 2022 MG ZS EV Long Range? I am waiting on a response from MG UK but there doesn't seem to be much information available other than the fact the specification states the car has a Vehicle to Load capability at a maximum load of 2200 watts. The V2L capability is of little benefit unless you have a V2L cable to use it!
 
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JCFlippen

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I don’t think anyone has seen the adapter yet here in the UK or in Europe. Don’t forget their aren’t many 2022 ZSEV cars here either.
 

JohnInFrance

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You can buy the adapters from Kia, they just fit the standard charge port and the protocol is the same regardless of vehicle, so it will work with the MG but they are shockingly (pardon the pun) expensive :eek:


Screenshot 2022-01-29 at 10.19.59.png
 

adiel

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Is this also availible for the 2022 standard range?
1643459128646.png

It would appear V2L is available across the board but cable pricing/availability in the UK is CURRENTLY limiting the ability to use it. I have asked MG UK about cable availability and pricing but appreciate cables from other brands are compatible.
 

JohnInFrance

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Arh ………. Well, we will not be having one of them at that price !.
How do they justify that, for what is effectively a type 2 plug, some electronics and a three pin socket outlet ???.
Some profiteering going on THERE !.
V2L is a complete gimmick, I just can't see where it would be of much, or any value in the real world. Many of the car companies are promoting it to use when one goes camping - for the price of those adapters it's possible to buy a low-end solar generator and for around a hundred euros more add the portable panels (so don't need to recharge from mains) to give you far more flexibility than having to be within a few feet of the car (and compromising the range by using up your battery).

For example: 89.94£ |500w/peak 1000w portable power station 568Wh 153600mah Outdoor camping generator lithium battery (100w solar panel Optional )|Solar Battery Chargers & Charging Kits| - AliExpress

I'm sure there will be people for whom V2L will solve world hunger, but unless the adapters are sensibly priced, I can't see how this will really take off or be of use for anyone.
 

Coulomb

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You can buy the adapters from Kia, they just fit the standard charge port and the protocol is the same regardless of vehicle, so it will work with the MG
Are you sure about that? I'm just not convinced that it would plug in and work. But I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong.
 

JohnInFrance

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Are you sure about that? I'm just not convinced that it would plug in and work. But I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong.
They certainly should do because both Kia and MG support V2L by using the Type 2 charger socket on the vehicle - unlike V2G, which requires a complicated SAE J1772 protocol originally designed by Nissan and bi-directional DC wall chargers, V2L is fairly 'dumb' and uses the car's onboard inverter to produce the AC and just sends it out the same three pins it uses on the Type 2 plug to import it when charging, directly to a standard 240v socket on the other end of the lead, the only difference should be in Europe there will be Schuko sockets on the end of the lead and in the UK they will be three-pin BS 1363/A sockets.

But .... as I said also, V2L seems a complete gimmick to me, I can see no sensible real-life use for this in Europe |(Africa, perhaps if in the middle of nowhere), so I'd certainly not chance it at over 400€ for the cable that's for sure!
 

seye

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They certainly should do because both Kia and MG support V2L by using the Type 2 charger socket on the vehicle - unlike V2G, which requires a complicated SAE J1772 protocol originally designed by Nissan and bi-directional DC wall chargers, V2L is fairly 'dumb' and uses the car's onboard inverter to produce the AC and just sends it out the same three pins it uses on the Type 2 plug to import it when charging, directly to a standard 240v socket on the other end of the lead, the only difference should be in Europe there will be Schuko sockets on the end of the lead and in the UK they will be three-pin BS 1363/A sockets.

But .... as I said also, V2L seems a complete gimmick to me, I can see no sensible real-life use for this in Europe |(Africa, perhaps if in the middle of nowhere), so I'd certainly not chance it at over 400€ for the cable that's for sure!
If it phase matched and grid tied it could augment existing home storage solutions, equivilent of adding an additional battery. Mainly of use in winter as summer there is less need for storage. The tech is equivalent of v2g but self consuming. Octopus are already trialing v2g but with very limited cars and chargers.

Solution needs api access to allow smart control to be effective and fully independent of domestic storage provider. The logical implementation is very straight forward

Existing some v2l adapters don't do all the matching so have to be independent. I agree the use case for that is limited

A Domestic 8.2kWh battery is more than £2000. Car has 51kWh, that's where the value of it can be.

Theory or practice.... Trials are also being undertaken where big ships full of batteries now bringing energy back from off shore wind farms. Very similar concept
 
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JohnInFrance

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If it phase matched and grid tied it could augment existing home storage solutions, equivilent of adding an additional battery. Mainly of use in winter as summer there is less need for storage. The tech is equivalent of v2g but self consuming. Octopus are already trialing v2g but with very limited cars and chargers.

Solution needs api access to allow smart control to be effective and fully independent of domestic storage provider. The logical implementation is very straight forward

Existing some v2l adapters don't do all the matching so have to be independent. I agree the use case for that is limited

A Domestic 8.2kWh battery is more than £2000. Car has 51kWh, that's where the value of it can be.

Theory or practice.... Trials are also being undertaken where big ships full of batteries now bringing energy back from off shore wind farms. Very similar concept
But that's not V2L, it's V2G and they are very different. V2L couldn't be used to augment your home supply, but V2G (which is what Octopus and others are trialling) can be. Although similarly named, and using the same base components (the car, it's battery and the input/export port), they are fundamentally different and not interchangeable. There are possibly others, but the only vehicle I know of that currently can support V2G is the Nissan Leaf.

As you say, storage batteries are small and expensive compared to those in an EV - if V2G worked it could be argued that it's cheaper to buy an old Leaf and just use that than smaller, expensive backup battery packs/powerwalls.
 

seye

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We are agreeing

The actual term being used in storage companies is v2h (vehical to home) , but that's not a common phrase yet. Hence the confusion of terms

V2h uses v2g technology to supply load to home.

That suits my use case. I have fit and have no intention of export g to the grid. I want autonomy of how, where, when I source energy and how I use it.

I bought storage due to the argument of leveling the grid etc. Using off peak greener.energy to help the planet and my pocket at the same time. Octopus outgoing works based on market demand for energy so peak demand can be met by distributed storage. Great idea. Grid leveling in action.

Octopus supported that so I could get go tariffs without an ev, they have now stopped that (obviously the argument for smart grid has changed, oh wait, that's what they use the same argument for intelligent octopus 😉)

Chademo has additional protocols for this, which is why nissan are early adopters. Not the case for CCS

So V2h is my desired end state. I am just hoping over the 7 year warranty period of my new MG kit comes out to deliver that capability . As V2L is a declared feature that should be covered by battery warranty, which is a concern of many for such use cases. (that's not a given)
 
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Presumably (I'm no expert) there's a transformer in the VTL cable gubbins? or is it in the car? for the 230v VTL output. Kia EV 6/Ionic 5 use 800v batteries. MG uses 400(ish)v. Would this be an issue using a Kia/Hyundai VTL cable?
 

JCFlippen

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Presumably (I'm no expert) there's a transformer in the VTL cable gubbins? or is it in the car? Kia EV 6/Ionic 5 use 800v batteries. MG uses 400(ish)v. Would this be an issue using a Kia/Hyundai VTL cable?
i think you are jumping the gun here. If there is a bit of a bang then the Kia cable does not work! Maybe a bit of explaining to do if your HV circuit is messed up in any way and you claim under warranty.
 
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No gun jumping here, no intention of using it, just stirring the conversation up.
 

JohnInFrance

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Presumably (I'm no expert) there's a transformer in the VTL cable gubbins? or is it in the car? for the 230v VTL output. Kia EV 6/Ionic 5 use 800v batteries. MG uses 400(ish)v. Would this be an issue using a Kia/Hyundai VTL cable?
The 'transformer' is called an inverter. It is built into the car and converts whatever DC voltage your car's battery rus at to 240v AC (and the reverse when charging your car from an AC charger). The output From the inverter to the cable is 240v AC, there is no inverter in the cable itself.

Consider it the reverse of how your TV works; it needs DC voltage at +12v and also + and - 5 volts. All of the electronics to do this are inside your TV, the cable you use is merely a conduit to move the 240v AC from your house supply to the TV's internal transformer, there is no logic or state change happening in the cable itself thus you can use any cable that has the correct connectors at each end.
 

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Many Chinese brand EVs have V2L function. The plug is about £50 in china. Basically it is an extension lead which can plug into the EV. I am going to buy one and have a try ( hair dryer, kettle, small induction cooker, microwave oven)
 

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seye

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Many Chinese brand EVs have V2L function. The plug is about £50 in china. Basically it is an extension lead which can plug into the EV. I am going to buy one and have a try ( hair dryer, kettle, small induction cooker, microwave oven)
please post your results, I will be interested to see them.
If ordering from China I guess that will be 4-6 weeks away
 
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