Battery Pack and Battery Equalisation?

[CyberNewbie]

The owners manual refers to charging time depending on whether you have a Battery Pack Type 1 or Type 2. I thought both models of the Cyberster had the same battery? How do I know what type of battery pack my GT will have?

Re. battery equalisation, am I right to assume you just plug in at home and charge to 100% and leave plugged in? How do you know when equalisation has been completed?

 

[GaryMG4]

The owners manual refers to charging time depending on whether you have a Battery Pack Type 1 or Type 2. I thought both models of the Cyberster had the same battery? How do I know what type of battery pack my GT will have?

Re. battery equalisation, am I right to assume you just plug in at home and charge to 100% and leave plugged in? How do you know when equalisation has been completed?

When an equalisation charge is taking place it will sit at 100% for some time but take a diminishing current until the car declares 'charge complete' during this time the range and %age will remain the same.

 

[Joningy]

When an equalisation charge is taking place it will sit at 100% for some time but take a diminishing current until the car declares 'charge complete' during this time the range and %age will remain the same.

My question to MG.
NMC battery Equalization charge details.
There is much debate on the correct process. I think it is necessary to charge to 100% to achieve this. Which is I believe is correct with MG.?

MG response...
"To achieve the battery equalisation, you must run the battery down to 10-15% and charge slowly to 100%. MG recommend this is carried out by 3 pin plug, or on a 7kwh charger. As the vehicle is charging, it will show blue lights around the charging area, green when it is fully charged. When all of the lights have gone off, this confirms the battery equalisation has taken place. MG recommend this is carried out once per month"

In this case my current MG4 has seldom had the battery equalisation carried out correctly as I have only let the SOC drop below 15%, a couple of times, so those thinking charging to 80% to get a proper equalisation (which I've always considered to be incorrect) need to take another look.
My new MGS5 which I pick up next week will be treated differently, but as we live remotely in rural Hampshire, I don't like to let it run low, just in case we need to dash off on an emergency errand.

I'll relay this MG response to other forums I've responded to.

 

[tarbat]

Given where I live in the remote highlands, there's no chance I'd ever let the charge get down to 10% on my Cyberster. That seems a very unreasonable assumption for MG to make.

 

[Joningy]

Given where I live in the remote highlands, there's no chance I'd ever let the charge get down to 10% on my Cyberster. That seems a very unreasonable assumption for MG to make.

Exactly my thoughts @tarbat.

It's amazing how some people seem to resort to aggressive & non necessary mannerisms, when we are all on this forum trying to help each other.
Probably looking at the Chinese menu the wrong way up

 

[EVentropy]

My question to MG.
NMC battery Equalization charge details.
There is much debate on the correct process. I think it is necessary to charge to 100% to achieve this. Which is I believe is correct with MG.?

MG response...
"To achieve the battery equalisation, you must run the battery down to 10-15% and charge slowly to 100%. MG recommend this is carried out by 3 pin plug, or on a 7kwh charger. As the vehicle is charging, it will show blue lights around the charging area, green when it is fully charged. When all of the lights have gone off, this confirms the battery equalisation has taken place. MG recommend this is carried out once per month"

In this case my current MG4 has seldom had the battery equalisation carried out correctly as I have only let the SOC drop below 15%, a couple of times, so those thinking charging to 80% to get a proper equalisation (which I've always considered to be incorrect) need to take another look.
My new MGS5 which I pick up next week will be treated differently, but as we live remotely in rural Hampshire, I don't like to let it run low, just in case we need to dash off on an emergency errand.

I'll relay this MG response to other forums I've responded to.

MG probably gave it to AI to answer.! Hey no reflection on you. I don’t believe anything until I’ve corroborated with data as too many players rushing devices to market and modifying SW as customers test it for them.
If you study the way the chemistries behave in terms of rate of change , NMC is the only candidate for pre 100% balancing owing to bigger range of voltages from steeper vs flatter. No significant delta with LiFePO4 Before 98%.
Also, I suspect both will benefit from 5%——->100% charges to get mean pack voltage up.

 

[decrep]

MG probably gave it to AI to answer.!

That was one of my thoughts, or the guy at the typewriter, just wrote what he thought?
You'll notice the charging light sequence is also wrong.

 

[EVentropy]

Absolutely!
The blind leading the blind collectively thinking someone can see.
I’ve been thrown dummy passes more than once by AI and internet.
I still have no clue what my MG is trying to do at the top end of charging cycle as what is happening is just saving from overcharging high cell. Maybe that’s what budget “balancing” is!
Not what I was initiated on with my own build.
Capacitive active balancing.
I guess that’s the problem when you already have an expectation. Also, much easier to control 8 cells than ~104.
Next Thursday I will find out at first service. Pleasantly surprised or still in a vacuum?
Hopefully factory SW is faulty but then I will still
Stuck with passive.

 

[Joningy]

Absolutely!
The blind leading the blind collectively thinking someone can see.
I’ve been thrown dummy passes more than once by AI and internet.
I still have no clue what my MG is trying to do at the top end of charging cycle as what is happening is just saving from overcharging high cell. Maybe that’s what budget “balancing” is!
Not what I was initiated on with my own build.
Capacitive active balancing.
I guess that’s the problem when you already have an expectation. Also, much easier to control 8 cells than ~104.
Next Thursday I will find out at first service. Pleasantly surprised or still in a vacuum?
Hopefully factory SW is faulty but then I will still
Stuck with passive.

A very good idiom and metaphor! @EVentropy
Are you gonna enlighten us on the pitfalls of "Capacitive active balancing? " AI doesn't have a definitive version the layman's version please

 

[EVentropy]

Wrong person to ask. My daughter sayes I suck at explaining things. then she is a University lecturer.
Also my tech knowledge is confine to non-electronic electrical engineering of yesteryear.

Essentially resistive "passive" balancing burns off extra energy with heat as name implies. Its lost.

Capacitive, as name applies, charges capacitor up from high cell and discharges to lowest cell as directed by BMS and the law of equalising emfs, higher voltage capacitor in parallel with lower voltage cell- they will quickly equalise; rinse & repeat; progressively working thru pack until a preset voltage delta is achieved; As does the resistive one to a limited extent, wasting the energy as heat.
Obviously, acceptable delta ( highest voltage cell to lowest voltage cell) will be achieved quicker than wasting all the high cells energy to heat, by bring up the low cells at the same time with active.
Easier to see in action I will find my other phone & post a clip.
T1-Terry and others would be more precise i'm sure.
Pitfalls, pass! Expensive, more complicated, ..............

 

[decrep]

Good enough for me @EVentropy, I don't need the fine details, I can see the sense of using a cap to transfer from high to low.

 

[Joningy]

Wrong person to ask. My daughter sayes I suck at explaining things. then she is a University lecturer.
Also my tech knowledge is confine to non-electronic electrical engineering of yesteryear.

Essentially resistive "passive" balancing burns off extra energy with heat as name implies. Its lost.

Capacitive, as name applies, charges capacitor up from high cell and discharges to lowest cell as directed by BMS and the law of equalising emfs, higher voltage capacitor in parallel with lower voltage cell- they will quickly equalise; rinse & repeat; progressively working thru pack until a preset voltage delta is achieved; As does the resistive one to a limited extent, wasting the energy as heat.
Obviously, acceptable delta ( highest voltage cell to lowest voltage cell) will be achieved quicker than wasting all the high cells energy to heat, by bring up the low cells at the same time with active.
Easier to see in action I will find my other phone & post a clip.
T1-Terry and others would be more precise i'm sure.
Pitfalls, pass! Expensive, more complicated, ..............

I'm in the same school as you @EVentropy hahaha, you've explained it sufficiently to a not very electronic mechanical engineer (very old school) but can still remember ohms law from school, but pretty sure I'd have little idea how to apply it now in our tiniest of digital world.

 

[EVentropy]

Good enough for me @EVentropy, I don't need the fine details, I can see the sense of using a cap to transfer from high to low.

Like your omoji. Never got around to windsurfing. Plenty of surfing around the world, but snowboarding put paid to that. (2x crushed vertibrae.)
Now just go sailing. Just gotta get out there........

 

[MG Clive]

Video unavailable @EVentropy

 

[EVentropy]

Video unavailable @EVentropy

Umm, really? I didn't post the the balancing one as its crap, unrealistic in extreme.
Its at @FairWindsFS but didn't want to post as its so misleading.
One above works, doesn't it? New at this, at least making them public.
Somewhat dodgy methinks.

 

[decrep]

Video unavailable @EVentropy

works OK for me.

 

[decrep]

Like your omoji. Never got around to windsurfing. Plenty of surfing around the world, but snowboarding put paid to that. (2x crushed vertibrae.)
Now just go sailing. Just gotta get out there........

Did you ever surf Raglan?? I've been there twice, but didn't have a board both times.

 

[MG Clive]

works OK for me.

Yes it's working ok now.

 

[EVentropy]

Did you ever surf Raglan?? I've been there twice, but didn't have a board both times.

PM'd you.