BBC Panorama Are We Ready For EV's

[EVsince2016]

As a long term EV driver I thought it was reasonably balanced from the perspective on an EV newbie as was the reporter.

Yes a few factual errors, but it did highlight 'can I get the charger to work anxiety' which we all know too well and home charging issues. Travelling across Spain we always jump & cheer when I can actually get a charger working!

Charger roll out should have been led strategically from Government, agreeing sites, power supplies & getting outline consents in place.

Charge providers would then have used those strategically needed before diversifying via brand contracts as is now common.

 

[Lovemyev]

Charger roll out should have been led strategically from Government, agreeing sites, power supplies & getting outline consents in

I clearly remember watching the MP for Wales being interviewed on the local BBC Welsh news, only about six weeks ago.
It was his second time on live TV in the same week !.
On the first interview he was defending why the Welsh government had decided to pull the plug on the planned road improves in Wales.
His second interview ( a few days later ) he was back on and being challenged on the poor state of the EV charging infrastructure in rural parts of Wales and his willingness to ramp up its progress.
His answer went something along these lines, when cornered on the topic.
MP - “Listen, we are not expected to build petrol stations, so why should we be expected to build and install charging stations”.
OBTW - This MP owns an electric car himself.
He likely charges from home or from a free charger at the office no doubt .
So based on his attitude, then handing this job to the government ( in Wales anyway ) would see us with about 70% less chargers now than the poor number we already have !.
Welsh government are still conducting a study on the use of Hydrogen stations.
Another load of money wasted on something that will never work, purely on the lack of investment!.
Same old, same old !.
Pumping tax payers money into a project that will never be introduced to any success, then folding it up.
I wonder if they pumped money into setting up the Betamax system by any chance ???.
Well, we all know how that story ended.

 

[Pianoman]

I've just watched the program on iPlayer, and I've got to say it was a lot better than Channel 4's effort last year.

Very fair and interviewed those for and against, although just saying "I'm a petrol head, end of" isn't much of an argument for discussion. Some people who were being forced to drive EV's by their company I think were still in the ICE van mind set and therefore were encountering problems. A few others were just repeating urban myths they'd heard in the pub. But on the whole, quite a good representation.

One woman made me laugh when she said she had to plan "pee" stops and she didn't want to have to plan charging stops as well. ~(Someone tell her)

Maybe it's just me, but when I used to drive an ICE car without sat-nav; if I was going on a road trip, I used to get out my trusty old AA Book Of The Road and plan my route with appropriate rest stops.
And then when I had my Prius with sat-nav, I used to look at the route it had picked for me, again looking at where the services were. So what is so difficult about seeing where the chargers are on a planned route?

Well said.

I like to think I have range awareness, I'm never anxious about it.

Now charger anxiety . . . well, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Very true

 

[Gadget Geek]

I think if they had given the job of presenting to Robert Llewllyn, it would have been a much better program all round. He's an experienced, knowledable EV driver and not afraid to call out the flaws in the current infrastructure.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

I think if they had given the job of presenting to Robert Llewllyn, it would have been a much better program all round. He's an experienced, knowledable EV driver and not afraid to call out the flaws in the current infrastructure.

Or EV Man or from a real family owning an EV perspective Mr EV. With Flaviana of course and then repeat viewings on i player would go through the roof. They may have to sensor her language though!

 

[tsedge]

EV experiences are largely shaped by where you live and what you do.

If you can have a home charger and especially if you have cheap rate electricity, it is amazing: your "fuel" bills are almost zero and your car is always "full" when you leave home.

But if you don't/can't, you may be constantly trying to work out where you can charge and worried about cost.

Equally, if you are retired, rarely drive long distances and/or don't travel far for work, EVs make so much sense.

But if you live on the road and cover a huge mileage, the drawbacks of EV range, charge speeds and charger availability are a much bigger issue.

A rounded programme would cover this and educate people on how to look at their situation to decide if now is the right time to get an EV.

 

[Rolfe]

I couldn't agree more. This is not the right time to buy an EV for some people. Maybe for quite a lot of people.

If you don't have driveway parking, or even of you have but you regularly need to drive more than say 200 miles in a day, maybe think twice unless you're very keen and prepared to work at it. Realise the problems you're likely to face and work out whether you're prepared to do what you have to so to work round them.

But if you have driveway parking and you seldom do a round trip of more than 150-200 miles a day, it's amazing.

 

[johnb80]

EV experiences are largely shaped by where you live and what you do.

If you can have a home charger and especially if you have cheap rate electricity, it is amazing: your "fuel" bills are almost zero and your car is always "full" when you leave home.

My previous car before buying my BMW i3 was a 4.4 litre TDV8 Range Rover. I used to put around £120 per week of diesel in it (it was around £1.12 per litre at that time). When I got the i3 with exactly the same usage it cost me £120 per year for fuel, amazing difference.

But if you don't/can't, you may be constantly trying to work out where you can charge and worried about cost.

Im not convinced about worrying about cost, at worst it costs the same as diesel or petrol on a per mile basis, at best its way cheaper. This month mine has run purely on sunlight from solar PV, in wintertime it cost me less than 2p per mile.

Equally, if you are retired, rarely drive long distances and/or don't travel far for work, EVs make so much sense.

It really does make good sense

But if you live on the road and cover a huge mileage, the drawbacks of EV range, charge speeds and charger availability are a much bigger issue.

If youre in this category, get a Tesla, they really have got a great charging network.

A rounded programme would cover this and educate people on how to look at their situation to decide if now is the right time to get an EV.

Totally agree, the panorama program went some towards this I feel, it could have a little better in places.

 

[smokie]

I couldn't agree more. This is not the right time to buy an EV for some people. Maybe for quite a lot of people.

I was avoiding posting on this on as it's largely rehashed stuff from other threads but I'm so glad to see a glimmer of understanding and maybe even acceptance of sentiments I've shared before here, and which you previously seem to have had an issue with.

 

[Ian Key]

One thing the programme did do, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, was to highlight the poor charging infrastructure.

It'd be interesting to hear the views on the programme of a non EV driver and whether it changed their views one way or the other.

 

[tsedge]

One thing the programme did do, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, was to highlight the poor charging infrastructure.

It'd be interesting to hear the views on the programme of a non EV driver and whether it changed their views one way or the other.

Yes, and what their worries and concerns are about EVs.

 

[maskull]

Yes, and what their worries and concerns are about EVs.

I think what concerns most people I've spoken too are practicality , affordability ( most of the EVs from major manufacturers with 250 mile range start at £40000 which is way too much for many folk ) and the charging infrastructure . I've been asked many times how long it would take to fully charge my 5 at a 7Kw charger and wait for their expressions . When I explain that you wouldn't and shouldn't use an EV that way they seem a bit relieved . The fastcharging infrastructure is improving in my locale , though much too slowly . Rapid charging availability is woeful .Then there is abuse of the charging stations . I've seen a couple ICEd though I've also seen abuse by other EV drivers . One left his Fiat e500 at a rapid charger for over 90 minutes ( BP Pulse , I really pray he had the £100 overstay fee applied ) . This week an IX3 parked at a Connected Kerb station really got my goat .
As highlighted in the programme ,the payment situation is a real annoyance . How hard can it be for one card fits all solution ?

 

[Gomev]

I think what concerns most people I've spoken too are practicality , affordability ( most of the EVs from major manufacturers with 250 mile range start at £40000 which is way too much for many folk ) and the charging infrastructure . I've been asked many times how long it would take to fully charge my 5 at a 7Kw charger and wait for their expressions . When I explain that you wouldn't and shouldn't use an EV that way they seem a bit relieved . The fastcharging infrastructure is improving in my locale , though much too slowly . Rapid charging availability is woeful .Then there is abuse of the charging stations . I've seen a couple ICEd though I've also seen abuse by other EV drivers . One left his Fiat e500 at a rapid charger for over 90 minutes ( BP Pulse , I really pray he had the £100 overstay fee applied ) . This week an IX3 parked at a Connected Kerb station really got my goat .
As highlighted in the programme ,the payment situation is a real annoyance . How hard can it be for one card fits all solution ?

I game for one card fits all....I choose your card

Re the charging network from Zapmap's latest newsletter

UK public charging network surpasses 43,000 charge points

New EV charging statistics from Zapmap show the total number of charging devices has risen by 38% year-on-year from May 2022.

www.zap-map.com

and the supplemental

How many EV charging points are there in the UK - Zapmap

Zapmap data on EV charge points which inform you on how many EV charge points there are on the UK's public charging network, which networks have the most charge points and where the charge points are located

www.zap-map.com

 

[tsedge]

I think we should take a leaf out of Tesla's book and have no cards. Instead the charger should recognise my car and I should be billed using my preferred payment method which I control and choose and which the charger supplier does not get to know.

I believe this is possible with the newest charging standard although that requires manufacturer support - I don't know if that means you'd have to give MG your credit card details? Anyone know how it is expected to work?

 

[Gadget Geek]

I think we should take a leaf out of Tesla's book and have no cards. Instead the charger should recognise my car and I should be billed using my preferred payment method which I control and choose and which the charger supplier does not get to know.

I believe this is possible with the newest charging standard although that requires manufacturer support - I don't know if that means you'd have to give MG your credit card details? Anyone know how it is expected to work?

Totally agree, but with all the different comms protocols, knowing my luck I'd probably find out I'd been charged for someone who's travelling from Land's End to John O' Groats.

I must admit that when the program started and the presenter announced that he knew nothing about electric cars, I thought "Here we go again, another hatchet job by someone who makes all the usual mistakes". But for once, the presenter had done his research and drove the I.D. Buzz as an electric car should be driven, which is like a normal car except you put electrons in it rather than fossil fuel.

I think it would have been a good contrast if he had taken a passenger with him who was, if not anti EV, was indifferent to EV's and see how they reacted to the EV experience. We are still in the early adopter stage and EV's are still a bit of an adventure, so only the adventurous are accepting them, whilst others are starting to timidly dip their toes in the EV waters.

As an anecdote, I remember when mobile phones suddenly became "the thing" and I was in the restaurant at my workplace. There was a cacophony of ring tones and conversations reminiscent of Dom Jolly shouting "Hello! Yes, I'm in the restaurant". Now, I wouldn't be without my mobile, although I rarely use it as a telephone.

(That went on a bit longer than I intended . . . sorry)

 

[maskull]

I game for one card fits all....I choose your card

Spoken like a true Yorkshireman

 

[Rolfe]

Happy to go on doing what I was actually doing when I came to the thread, which was discuss a TV programme I haven't actually seen.

I think it's a question of nuance. Yes there are problems with the public charger infrastructure and it's absolutely legitimate to highlight these, but in the present climate there are different ways to do that. You can approach it from the position that EVs are generally a great driving experience and for people who can charge at home and whose usual daily mileage is below the practical range of their car there isn't really much of a downside, but how does the poor public charging infrastructure impact on the whole EV experience?

You distinguish different groups of users. Those who seldom if ever need to use public charging, who are frankly sitting pretty. Those who have home charging but who travel further than the range of their car often enough to mean that they need rapid chargers to be available when they're out on a journey, and those who don't have home charging at all.

It's useful to highlight that the first group exists and is actually quite a lot of people, to put this in perspective. No point in coming over all doom and gloom about EV usage in general and putting this group off, entirely unnecessarily.

The second group are important, but they don't generally care much about type 2 chargers so long as they can get on a rapid charger when they want it, quickly and easily. If they can access a type 2 charger while they're at their meeting or whatever that's a bonus, but it's rapid DC charging that's their main focus. So we talk about unfriendly charger siting, problems with cards and apps and paying and pre-authorisation and capacity and queueing and so on. And broken chargers.

The third group are the really disadvantaged people, and the people who have to be provided for if EV driving is to become ubiquitous. So you talk about ways to allow people to charge at the kerb, maybe using their own electricity supply led across the pavement. You talk about lamp-post chargers and availablity of type 2 chargers within easy reach of people's homes. You talk about price and VAT.

A balanced programme would have laid it out much like that, highlighting both the areas which are working well (home charging) and where improvement is desperately needed, but pointing out that for many people the lack of these improvements is not in fact a barrier to EV ownership.

The comments from many people seem to suggest, however, that the problems were presented as applying equally to everyone - to my friend who has never used a public charger at all in his near three-year Leaf ownership, to my other friend in a terraced house in a charger desert who simply doesn't have a chance. Disappointing, if so.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

Please stop polluting this thread both of you. Direct messages are where you can shout at each other, forum posts are public and this one is about the panorama programme.

The Daily Mail is the place to 'battle' though I tend to take on a large number of red down arrows on it when fighting the EV ( and associated renewables , air source heat pumps etc etc ) cause. There are a few of us on there valiantly keeping the cause alive.

 

[maskull]

“Clearly there is a disparity here which is why public on-street charging is so critical. With up to 60% of UK residents unable to charge their vehicle on their own property, supporting people without driveways has to be the way forward,” said a spokesperson from Connected Kerb."
So many are sitting pretty , but many more aren't

 

[Derek25]

Happy to go on doing what I was actually doing when I came to the thread, which was discuss a TV programme I haven't actually seen.

I think it's a question of nuance. Yes there are problems with the public charger infrastructure and it's absolutely legitimate to highlight these, but in the present climate there are different ways to do that. You can approach it from the position that EVs are generally a great driving experience and for people who can charge at home and whose usual daily mileage is below the practical range of their car there isn't really much of a downside, but how does the poor public charging infrastructure impact on the whole EV experience?

You distinguish different groups of users. Those who seldom if ever need to use public charging, who are frankly sitting pretty. Those who have home charging but who travel further than the range of their car often enough to mean that they need rapid chargers to be available when they're out on a journey, and those who don't have home charging at all.

It's useful to highlight that the first group exists and is actually quite a lot of people, to put this in perspective. No point in coming over all doom and gloom about EV usage in general and putting this group off, entirely unnecessarily.

The second group are important, but they don't generally care much about type 2 chargers so long as they can get on a rapid charger when they want it, quickly and easily. If they can access a type 2 charger while they're at their meeting or whatever that's a bonus, but it's rapid DC charging that's their main focus. So we talk about unfriendly charger siting, problems with cards and apps and paying and pre-authorisation and capacity and queueing and so on. And broken chargers.

The third group are the really disadvantaged people, and the people who have to be provided for if EV driving is to become ubiquitous. So you talk about ways to allow people to charge at the kerb, maybe using their own electricity supply led across the pavement. You talk about lamp-post chargers and availablity of type 2 chargers within easy reach of people's homes. You talk about price and VAT.

A balanced programme would have laid it out much like that, highlighting both the areas which are working well (home charging) and where improvement is desperately needed, but pointing out that for many people the lack of these improvements is not in fact a barrier to EV ownership.

The comments from many people seem to suggest, however, that the problems were presented as applying equally to everyone - to my friend who has never used a public charger at all in his near three-year Leaf ownership, to my other friend in a terraced house in a charger desert who simply doesn't have a chance. Disappointing, if so.

That's a long post for someone who hasn't watched it