I've gone and done it now (road trip)

[KH11]

Three stop could be quicker as charging from 20% to 80% is quicker than going from 10% to 100%
Or to misquote Alfred Hitchcock "The time between chargers should be directly related to the endurance of the human bladder."

Dave takes it on, on YouTube did an exercise like you are suggesting coming from down south up into Scotland and proved it was quicker to do stops from 20% to 80% than trying to do fewer stops but charging to 100%. The last 20% of that had him hanging around for ages because of the charging speed dropping off considerably after it had got his car to 80%.

 

[Rolfe]

Three stop could be quicker as charging from 20% to 80% is quicker than going from 10% to 100%
Or to misquote Alfred Hitchcock "The time between chargers should be directly related to the endurance of the human bladder."

Dave takes it on, on YouTube did an exercise like you are suggesting coming from down south up into Scotland and proved it was quicker to do stops from 20% to 80% than trying to do fewer stops but charging to 100%. The last 20% of that had him hanging around for ages because of the charging speed dropping off considerably after it had got his car to 80%.

My bladder is absolutely up for it. I used to do the entire journey (430 miles at the time) with only one stop for petrol, and quite often just shoved the petrol in the car, paid, and drove on without looking for the loos. (Just thinking. It's 6.20, and I'm realising I should probably go to the loo. When did I go previously? Around 10 am, certainly no later than 10.20. So that's at least eight hours. And I had a glass of juice at breakfast, a cup of coffee at church, a glass of diet Pepsi at lunch, and another cup of coffee in the afternoon. This is normal for me.)

I don't mind waiting longer with fewer stops. It would give me more time to have a proper meal and a bit if a rest, and it cuts off 33% of the hassle of finding the chargers and do they work and will this thing talk to my car, and so on. It's slightly odd that ABRP won't plot such a plan even when I ask it to.

Both times I stopped on the way to Yorkshire I ended up well above 90% and I wasn't even trying, as the total distance to cover was less than 190 miles. I was interested in practising with the chargers rather than speed, but at the Gridserve at Southwaite by the time I'd had a Costa toastie and been to the loo and fiddled around on Twitter for ten minutes, I was at 92%. At the Instavolt at Kirkby Lonsdale I just went into the shop, bought some gifts for the friends I was going to visit, then sat in the car for a few minutes because the radio was playing something I particularly liked. I left at 95%. Neither time was I at all conscious of hanging around - although to be fair I didn't start from a particularly low SoC. While I'm obviously conscious that the SR slows down as it gets closer to 100%, I've always been quite surprised by how fast it goes on charging up to 90% and beyond.

I think I might start off with the intention of doing the two-stop plan, but if the range drops off too much on the M74/M6 north section, switch to the three-stop plan and stop at Killington Lake before things get dodgy. But if I do go on to Lancaster, I've always got the option of cutting and running early if it really is taking ages to charge and I'm getting bored, and factoring in a third stop to compensate.

Do you have a link to that YouTube presentation?

 

[KH11]

My bladder is absolutely up for it. I used to do the entire journey (430 miles at the time) with only one stop for petrol, and quite often just shoved the petrol in the car, paid, and drove on without looking for the loos. (Just thinking. It's 6.20, and I'm realising I should probably go to the loo. When did I go previously? Around 10 am, certainly no later than 10.20. So that's at least eight hours. And I had a glass of juice at breakfast, a cup of coffee at church, a glass of diet Pepsi at lunch, and another cup of coffee in the afternoon. This is normal for me.)

I don't mind waiting longer with fewer stops. It would give me more time to have a proper meal and a bit if a rest, and it cuts off 33% of the hassle of finding the chargers and do they work and will this thing talk to my car, and so on.

Both times I stopped on the way to Yorkshire I ended up well above 90% and I wasn't even trying, as the total distance to cover was less than 190 miles. I was interested in practising with the chargers rather than speed, but at the Gridserve at Southwaite by the time I'd had a Costa toastie and been to the loo and fiddled around on Twitter for ten minutes, I was at 92%. At the Instavolt at Kirkby Lonsdale I just went into the shop, bought some gifts for the friends I was going to visit, then sat in the car for a few minutes because the radio was playing something I particularly liked. I left at 95%. Neither time was I at all conscious of hanging around - although to be fair I didn't start from a particularly low SoC. While I'm obviously conscious that the SR slows down as it gets closer to 100%, I've always been quite surprised by how fast it goes on charging up to 90% and beyond.

I think I might start off with the intention of doing the two-stop plan, but if the range drops off too much on the M74/M6 north section, switch to the three-stop plan and stop at Killington Lake before things get dodgy. But if I do go on to Lancaster, I've always got the option of cutting and running early if it really is taking ages to charge and I'm getting bored, and factoring in a third stop to compensate.

Do you have a link to that YouTube presentation?

I am not too tech savvy with links but if you look up Dave Takes it on it’s probably about 3 weeks ago that he did it. I will see if I can find it and see if I can figure out how to link it

I am not too tech savvy with links but if you look up Dave Takes it on it’s probably about 3 weeks ago that he did it. I will see if I can find it and see if I can figure out how to link it

I think this might be it

 

[Rolfe]

I think this might be it

Thanks. I do know that, but look at what he said near the end. Two of your stops are going to be meal breaks, and longer than the others. On these stops, he charges to 80%. I'm looking at two stops, which will be meal breaks.

The video isn't realistic for the SR, because we're never going to get 135 Kw anyway, at the beginning. So I don't know if what happens at the end is comparable either. Forty minutes to get from 90% to 100%? That is not my subjective experience with the SR, although I admit I haven't timed it, but I've never been on a charger that was rated at more than 52 Kw. While I was sitting listening to the radio at Kirkby Lonsdale I was watching the SoC click up to 95% at a pretty reasonable rate. The piece of music I was listening to takes about 10 minutes and it was already underway when I got into the car and decided just to sit and listen to it before I disconnected.

When I started at 60% one day and gave the car 53 minutes on a 52Kw charger, it was at 98% when I got back. According to Dave, who is obviously on a much faster charger, 60-100% should take 83 minutes. A full half hour longer than I observed in my car (OK, without the last 2%, but I'm perfectly happy to stop at 98%!) So something doesn't really compute here.

Same game, but starting at 19%, got me to 84% in the same time. Starting at 4% got me to 67%. (53-54 min is the maximum time on that charger.) I think we need a graph for the SR itself. I think it's a lot flatter than the car Dave was using in the test. For sure it's going to be slower at the start, but I think it may compensate a bit by not being as slow at the end. So his scenario doesn't entirely apply.

ABRM is telling me to take three stops, of 30 min, 29 min and 39 min. Maybe they're right, but my preference would be to take a bit longer but only stop twice. Dave allowed just five minutes each stop to slow down, leave the motorway, get connected, get disconnected, set off and rejoin the motorway, assuming the chargers were all free and working and no hassle. But there is hassle, potentially. So here I am, happily plugged into a working charger, and happily eating my meal and resting. I should unplug below 80% and hustle back on to the road, to give myself an extra shot at finding the charger I want occupied, or broken, or refusing to talk to my car? Rather than simply letting it go on to 95% or 98%? Which I'm fairly sure is not going to take another hour with the SR.

He actually sounds like a friend of mine who believes we should do away with GMT and have BST all year round. He preaches about it. It's his bee in his bonnet. He's so sure he's right. But I have other reasons for wanting to keep the clock change. He isn't interested in hearing about these reasons, because the only reasons that matter to him are the ones he thinks are important. Dave keeps talking about standing around, pacing up and down, sitting impatiently drinking coffee. If that was my frame of mind, I'd agree with him. But once I have the car connected and safely charging, I want that meal break, and to relax. What I don't want is a third episode of "find the charger, is it free, will it work" and having to get out of the car for another half an hour - when I probably will be standing around, pacing up and down, because it isn't a break I want to take.

I had another look at ABRP's proposal. Its first suggested stop is at the Porsche Centre, South Lakes. The chargers there are indeed ultra-fast, but look at the prices! 85p per KWh, but on top of that, a 45p per minute standing charge. ABRP would like me to stop there for 30 minutes. If ZapMap is right about that, that's an extra £13.50 on top of the price of the electicity. And what's there, other than a car showroom? A bunch of fields. So much for my lunch. (I agree I didn't specify amenities, but this place is not attractive.)

I'd be far better off with Killington Lake (nice restaurant), and Kirkby Lonsdale as the back-stop (a 12-mile round-trip detour off the motorway, but reliable Instavolts and a choice of cafés round the corner. And the prices are reasonable, parking at the latter is only £1.40 for an hour.

The second suggestion is Stafford, again ultra-rapid chargers, but they're marked on ZapMap as having issues and unknown status, and they're at a Premier Inn (where one may or may not be able to get refreshments) with nothing much else in the vicinity. A whole 25 minutes. Yes I probably would be pacing impatiently, because that's not long enough to have a meal in any case.

The third suggestion "M40 J10" turns out in fact to be Cherwell Valley, once I'd looked it up on a better map. So we're in agreement on that one.

This isn't really all that attractive. Forget the Porsche Centre for a start. But the fact is that 25-30 minutes isn't long enough at any of these stops.

It could be that I simply can't get enough charge at either Forton or Warwick in a reasonable time, and I have to factor in a third stop regardless. I'd rather work it out so that two of the stops are a decent length and the third is as short as possible, rather than have three 30-minute stops though. Maybe I need to work more on that idea.

 

[DBedford]

ARP worked, but definitely wants me to do three stops - even when I ask for fewer but longer stops, it doesn't change. I think they are expecting me to drive pretty fast, because they have the total driving time at 6 hours 45 minutes, whereas the AA, for the same route, has it as 7 hours 20 minutes.

The total charging time is given as 1 hour 34 minutes. I'd rather do two hours, but in only two stops. It's odd they're not giving me that option.

Perhaps I should make a three-stop plan too, and decide which one to use when I see how fast the range is dropping when I get on to the M74.



Cherwell Valley is 116.5 miles from my destination, and looks like a good option if I was doing a three-stop plan, which I probably will. Not the ABRP one though. Killington Lake, somewhere about half way (maybe Keele?), and Cherwell Valley might work.

Thanks very much for the advice.

ABRP does give the options for more or fewer stops, see attached.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, I did that, but it still gave me the same three stops when I put it on fewer, longer stops. Didn't offer me a two-stop option.

Maybe it's the case that I would have to stay too long at Forton to make two stops work. An hour is fine, but an hour and a half probably isn't. And it could be that, because the chargers are just 50 Kw. Maybe I should plan seriously for a third stop, but make the stops of unequal length - getting closer to what Dave was suggesting in fact. Although he would probably go for about five in that distance!

I could probably make use of that Stafford Premier Inn stop, which is 92 miles on from Forton so the battery would be charging fairly fast by then, assuming "issues reported" goes away. The chargers are Ionity ultra-rapid, so maybe 15 minutes would be enough of a boost so that I wouldn't have to charge longer than an hour at Warwick (on a 100 Kw charger) in order to get to Portslade. I don't mind sitting in the car for 15 minutes.

At least I've got lots of options and can play it by ear to some extent, depending on how fast the car is charging and how fast the range goes down at motorway speeds.

Getting a bit unimpressed with ABRP. I asked it for a restaurant 2½ hours into the journey, because that's about how long I think I'll take to get to Forton services. It told me about some place I'd never heard of with a "chippy" nearby.

I then asked about a restaurant two hours into the journey, thinking maybe to get Killington Lake. Oh no. What did I get? Burton-in-Kendal. Which is on the northbound carriageway. You can't get to it from the southbound carriageway at all. (Or you can, by leaving the motorway at the junction six miles north and sneaking up on it, going the wrong way down a one-way street at the end, as I did one scary Christmas Eve when all the petrol stations on the A65 had closed early, but if you do that you then can't get back on the southbound carriageway.) In fact Killington Lake and Burton-in-Kendal are a pair, the former on the southbound carriageway and the latter on the northbound carriageway, but they're more than ten miles apart.

Also, I note that the chippy it suggested for 2½ hours is only about five miles south of the service station it erroneously suggested would be accessible two hours into the journey. So if that's it's level of information, I'm steering clear. I think I know this route better than it does.

Sigh. I thought if I actually told it which chargers I wanted to stop at, it might tell me how long I had to charge at each one to do the trip.

First I tried a three-stop option. Killington Lake, Keele, and Cherwell Valley. It definitely has a problem, it doesn't seem to realise there are chargers at Killington Lake at all. (There are, I've seen them.) It insists I drive on another 15 miles to this insanely expensive facility at the Porsche showroom. It did however give me some charging times at Keele and Cherwell Valley - 53 minutes to go from 11% to 74% at Keele and 39 minutes to go from 10% to 84% at Cherwell Valley. I suppose that's taking into account that the chargers at Keele are only 50 Kw while there are 350 Kw ones at Cherwell Valley.

Then I tried a different three-stop option. Forton, Stafford, Warwick. This was even worse. It doesn't believe there are any chargers at the Forton services either, insisted I go to a nearby Park and Ride. In fact, it hasn't scheduled any charging at any of the stops I specified this time, even though the Stafford one was its idea in the first place.

Just for fun I tried the two-stop option. It simply added in more chargers, including the Porsche showroom which I had told it to forget about forever, and Knutsford - because it still doesn't believe there are any chargers at Forton. It did let me charge at Warwick, but wanted me to leave after only 21 minutes and at 60% so that I could stop again at Beaconsfield for 19 minutes to get from 15% to 59%. That Beaconsfield charger might be one to remember though.

It seems to be showing me a big advantage of going for faster chargers, although I'm not sure how much the SR can take advantage of these. It's a pity there's nothing that fast anywhere near Forton, but there ain't, at least not yet. Where's Applegreen when you need them?

I suppose I could still aim for the two long stops, but if the car is charging too slowly to get enough to make the next 150-mile leg, just leave and head for a really fast charger where 15 minutes might be enough to get me the missing range. That would be fast Ionity chargers at Stafford for the second leg, and probably the similar ones at Beaconsfield services - although both are showing "issues" at the moment.

That's actually four potential stops rather than three, but if two are quick, sit in the car jobs, it miht make sense.

Sorry, thinking aloud here, stream of consciousness, but it's an interesting conundrum and very useful to work through all the permutations.

 

[okohll]

I don't do many long trips but for what it's worth, I tend to use Google Maps for the route as normal but then PlugShare or something to find chargers near where I think I'd like to stop on the way - a pretty manual process. That might be because they're generally for holiday / day off trips and charging efficiency is not the main goal.

 

[Grriff]

I've found the EV charge point apps somewhat unreliable. For some reason my Electroverse app doesn't show any chargers at Cherwell Valley but the website does. I've looked at the filters and can't see any reason.
So far, Google Maps seems to be the best. Choose 'More' from the search options at the top and then EV chargers. You can then set filters for the chargers.

 

[PeteC]

I've never had much luck with ABRP. It always seems to suggest more stops than I need! I've just had a look at the Wattsup app and it looks semi useful. Whilst it doesn't actually plan a journey by suggesting stops, it will show a route and the chargers along that route. I filtered for quicker chargers only as on a journey that's what I'd want. It's a bit of a coarse filter as it shows anything around 50kW+.

I like the look of the overview option where it lists all the chargers along the route. It shows their kW ratings, how many there are (and indicates how many are available/in use/out of order for some of the networks) and also shows the distance from your start point. It is still dumb enough to show Burton-in-Kendal on a southbound trip, but at least labels it as northbound!

I can see I might use this when planning a trip to help me with selecting possible chargers as displaying the distances from my start point saves me having to faddle about on Google maps to check the distances. I guess then I'll probably drop back to zapmap to check details such as costs.

 

[siteguru]

I've just looked at my Goggle Maps app, selected More and I don't see any option for EV chargers - just some pinned locations.

 

[PeteC]

I've just looked at my Goggle Maps app, selected More and I don't see any option for EV chargers - just some pinned locations.

In the Services section of the More categories on mine - Electric vehicle. Once selected, there are some options at the top of the map for plug type and fast charge. Tapping a pinned location brings up some details of the charger.

 

[jpk]

I've just looked at my Goggle Maps app, selected More and I don't see any option for EV chargers - just some pinned locations.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't do many long trips but for what it's worth, I tend to use Google Maps for the route as normal but then PlugShare or something to find chargers near where I think I'd like to stop on the way - a pretty manual process. That might be because they're generally for holiday / day off trips and charging efficiency is not the main goal.

That's my feeling too. Having said that, ABRP has pointed out some chargers that might be useful, but it's absolutely hell-bent on sending me to that Porsche showroom in the middle of freaking nowhere to be charged 45p a minute for sitting looking at wet fields, on top of the (extortionate) cost of the electricity! This is simply not going to happen. The chargers may be very fast, but I'd rather sit in the Roadchef restaurant at Killington Lake on a 50 Kw charger.

 

[AidanTM]

I've used the chargers at Booths in Fulwood a couple of times. Worked fine and there is a nice Booths cafe next to the shop.

The 350kw Ionity chargers on Spitfire Close in Stafford just off M6 J14 are great for a fast top up. There's a good Premier inn next door if you are breaking up the journey.

 

[Rolfe]

I've found the EV charge point apps somewhat unreliable. For some reason my Electroverse app doesn't show any chargers at Cherwell Valley but the website does. I've looked at the filters and can't see any reason.
So far, Google Maps seems to be the best. Choose 'More' from the search options at the top and then EV chargers. You can then set filters for the chargers.

There's something odd about the way ABRP handles Cherwell Valley. I put Cherwell Valley in as a waypoint, and it showed this as somewhere with no chargers, but then directed me to "M40 Motorway, Jct 10, Northampton Road, Bicester [Gridserve Electric ..." which was zero miles away, to get a charge. I think at least some of these motorway service stations are listed twice in their database of locations, once as a charging location and once as a simple stopping place.

I have found no way to get it to acknowledge that there are chargers at either Killington Lake or Forton, though.

 

[Rolfe]

I've used the chargers at Booths in Fulwood a couple of times. Worked fine and there is a nice Booths cafe next to the shop.

The 350kw Ionity chargers on Spitfire Close in Stafford just off M6 J14 are great for a fast top up. There's a good Premier inn next door if you are breaking up the journey.

That's really handy to know, although I'm not sure I'd get as far as Fulwood on a single charge at motorway speeds. (According to ABRP I have no chance even of getting to Forton, at 147 miles from home.)

I'm looking at the Ionity chargers in Stafford pretty closely for exactly that purpose, but it's also handy to know the Premier Inn is a possible refreshment stop. I've stayed in a lot of these, and they vary a lot as to what the dining facilities are like, and whether these are open to non-residents.

 

[siteguru]

In the Services section of the More categories on mine - Electric vehicle. Once selected, there are some options at the top of the map for plug type and fast charge. Tapping a pinned location brings up some details of the charger.

I was looking in a different place .. in the More section after tapping the search bar.

Following what you've said (and what @jpk showed) is the same as typing in Electric Vehicle Charging into the search bar.

 

[Rolfe]

Serious question. I will definitely start the trip on 100%, I mean obviously. Forton is 147 miles from home. The first 35 miles or so is on a fairly slow single-carriageway A road, but then it's motorway all the way. Is reaching Forton an unreasonable goal with an SR? OK, I realise it's not an unreasonable goal if one sets ones ACC to 60, but I'm unlikely to do that. Is it an unreasonable goal driving at normal motorway speeds in summer?

Dave does have a point about stopping at a relatively low SoC to get the car charging faster. For this reason I'm inclined to make the first leg as long as possible. But if 147 miles is not a reasonable expectation (from the nominally 218-mile-range SR) then I need to know this.

No matter what I set the parameters to, ABRP won't countenance the idea of me going as far as Lancaster on one charge.

 

[PeteC]

Serious question. I will definitely start the trip on 100%, I mean obviously. Forton is 147 miles from home. The first 35 miles or so is on a fairly slow single-carriageway A road, but then it's motorway all the way. Is reaching Forton an unreasonable goal with an SR? OK, I realise it's not an unreasonable goal if one sets ones ACC to 60, but I'm unlikely to do that. Is it an unreasonable goal driving at normal motorway speeds in summer?

Dave does have a point about stopping at a relatively low SoC to get the car charging faster. For this reason I'm inclined to make the first leg as long as possible. But if 147 miles is not a reasonable expectation (from the nominally 218-mile-range SR) then I need to know this.

No matter what I set the parameters to, ABRP won't countenance the idea of me going as far as Lancaster on one charge.

If it's any help, my Trophy gets to my first stop at 160 miles using around 70 - 75% of a full charge. That's about 20 miles of A roads at about 50mph and the rest on the dual carriageways with ACC set at 70mph. My battery has 61kWh useable so 75% would mean that I've used around 46kWh to cover the 160 miles. And that's with my draggy old spoilers (I know you don't like them!). I should say that it's a very flat route.

 

[siteguru]

@Rolfe what is the GoM showing as mpkWh in your car for Accumulated Total? Use that as a guide as to what range you'll get. Example:

GoM shows 3.3 mpkWh (which may be reasonable for motorway speeds in summer)
100% SoC = 50.8 kWh usable

50.8 x 3.3 = ~167 miles full to flat.