I've gone and done it now (road trip)

[fnegroni]

I think Teslas model and the battery swap models of business are simpler: stay with the vehicle while you charge, we make it so quick you don’t mind its in the middle of nowhere with no toilets

The GRIDSERVE model is to make it less of a chore to go charge your car by charging faster at destination, which requires many more chargers.

Eventually the speed of charge and the number of chargers I hope will be such that it becomes a non sequitur

 

[tsedge]

I think Teslas model and the battery swap models of business are simpler: stay with the vehicle while you charge, we make it so quick you don’t mind its in the middle of nowhere with no toilets.

That doesn't work for me. I always want to have toilets and refreshments available when I stop.

Speeding it up is all very well but if there's too much focus on this that just means there are too few chargers available. I'd like to see a bigger mix of DC chargers: eg 50kW (lots) and then a few rapids.

 

[fnegroni]

That doesn't work for me. I always want to have toilets and refreshments available when I stop.

Speeding it up is all very well but if there's too much focus on this that just means there are too few chargers available. I'd like to see a bigger mix of DC chargers: eg 50kW (lots) and then a few rapids.

Absolutely. My point being their business model for charging is simpler but not necessarily better

 

[Rolfe]

When I did the original trip this thread was about, I stopped at Cherwell Valley both ways. On the way south I'd never been there before and it seemed a bit busy but there was a free charger so I went for it. It was only as I was connecting that I realised I'd got a 50 kW, whereas the ones further up the row were 350 kW . I couldn't immediately see if there were any 350 kW units free and since the SR is only going to do 88 kW at best I just shrugged and connected. I had a walk round the food court to decide what to eat, ordered something and ate it. Went to the loo and by the time I was done I had plenty to get me to my destination with some spare, so I just packed up and left.

On the way back it was earlier in the day and didn't appear so busy, There were a couple of free 350 kW units so I just bagged one. Again I had a wander round, got something to eat, and went to the loo. Even though the car was charging a bit faster, the experience wasn't much different. I suppose I was probably charging more the second time, but the difference was so marginal I'm not necessarily all that fussed about getting a faster charger. Different if you have the 64 kWh battery I suppose.

Again at Christmas, I got a plug on another one of those old Gridserve installations that happened to be at a tourist attraction. I suppose I was charging for about 35-40 minutes. When I saw 80% I stood up from my table, and by the time I had bussed my dishes and inquired about something at the shop and visited the loo and walked back to the car, it was at 85%.

I did notice a wrinkle, though. I was the only car on my charger, because the other plug was the CHAdeMO and no Leaf was in sight. When I got back to the car a guy on one of the two CCS plugs on the other charger was fiddling around and obviously getting a poor charging rate. He asked me if I'd got a reasonable rate and when I said yes he prepared to move his car to the bay I was vacating. There was another car on that charger at the same time and I think it was sharing charge. Come to think of it, every time I have been on one of these old units, I've had the charger to myself. 50 kW is fine, but if it gets split between two cars that's a lot less fine.

Here's the plan I'll probably go for, in ABRP. I imagine things will change a bit depending on the actual temperature and wind speeds on the day though. (This is 20ºC and no wind.)

It's quite a long charge at Forton, because I want to get to the NEC and that means going to 85%. It will be lunch time though - I intend to get there about 12.30. It's a pity Forton is such a dump, but it will do. If I could charge at Killington Lake, which is not a dump, I'd maybe re-think this and abandon the NEC, but I don't see Killington Lake having usable charging facilities any time soon.

It also seems long at Cobham, but that's only because I set my arrival SoC to 50%, for convenience on the day of the performance. If I'm running late I could probably pick up enough to get to Portslade in ten minutes, and just go out to a nearby rapid charger in the morning to make up the difference.

 

[Mannakin]

I'm doing Hove to Kirkcaldy on Wednesday. I have the extended range model. Planning on a stop at Banbury Tesla chargers, then Trentham Tesla and finally Tebay. We have dogs and my bladder is no longer young, hence the 3 stops!

 

[Rolfe]

Tebay? What sort of chargers are you finding at Tebay?

I think the ER is one of the top picks if you're doing that sort of trip on anything like a regular basis.

 

[Mannakin]

It's just 50kW on the northbound, 2 gridserve. There are Tesla chargers on the southbound side, but they aren't open for non-tesla cars

 

[Archev]

OK so having been scolded by Rolfe for being a lightweight by not driving all the way to Tobermory for lunch last Monday I’m going to “man up” for my next trip.
I was looking through some old books and diaries etc and found an “expedition report “ by the School’s Hebridean Society which I don’t think exists anymore.
I went on one of these expeditions around 60 years ago to Rhenigidale on Lewis. At that time there was no road to the village / clachan and we travelled by train to Kyle of Lochalsh , ferry to Stornaway and rented fishing trawler to Port Reinigeadal.
I’ve never been back there despite it always being on my bucket list. This was strongly reinforced just before the covid menace, when a chance encounter rekindled my interest. I met a Canadian guy whose family emigrated from Rhenigidale.
So I’m formulating some plans to try collecting a good weather window, accommodation etc etc etc. I might even wash the Magnette with an option to vacuum the interior (all these fabulously presented and polished up cars pictured in the forum put me to shame)
Will this old duffer’s dream become a reality? Has his GOM completely GONE? Will he reread that report and realise that yon youngster was wee bit stronger? Can his daughter confiscate the car keys? Or will she and Ruby the Spaniel join me ??

 

[Rolfe]

GO FOR IT!

I just looked that up, as there is no "Rh" in Gaelic, and the original spelling seems to be "Reinigeadal". It certainly looks as if you can drive there now, although the Google Streetview van has not dared to try it. You may want to take some lessons from @QLeo first.

Once the weather gets a bit warmer I intend to figure out just how practical it is to sleep in the MG4. Not that I'd necessarily plan to do that, but it would be useful to have the wherewithal in the car just in case. I still remember a night with four of us in a Datsun 100A in about 1970 somewhere near Kyle of Lochalsh, when there was literally no room at any inn at all.

 

[NLMGSAN]

That doesn't work for me. I always want to have toilets and refreshments available when I stop.

Speeding it up is all very well but if there's too much focus on this that just means there are too few chargers available. I'd like to see a bigger mix of DC chargers: eg 50kW (lots) and then a few rapids.

Then how did you have your stops during the petrol days ? You fuel up, park your car and have a lunch?if the speed improves, say 80% after 10 minutes, you park and relax.

 

[Archev]

GO FOR IT!

I just looked that up, as there is no "Rh" in Gaelic, and the original spelling seems to be "Reinigeadal". It certainly looks as if you can drive there now, although the Google Streetview van has not dared to try it. You may want to take some lessons from @QLeo first.

Once the weather gets a bit warmer I intend to figure out just how practical it is to sleep in the MG4. Not that I'd necessarily plan to do that, but it would be useful to have the wherewithal in the car just in case. I still remember a night with four of us in a Datsun 100A in about 1970 somewhere near Kyle of Lochalsh, when there was literally no room at any inn at all.

Yes it’s driveable now. Back then there was only a rough walking track known as the postman’s path for obvious reasons. We walked it a few times to collect bread etc. We had a boat with an outboard motor, a couple of sextants and a depth sounder. Having surveyed the port we sent the resulting hand drawn chart to the Admiralty.

 

[NLMGSAN]

If you are in a hurry, and if you are on a long trip. Absolutely. But for how many people is that a real requirement? Most people don't drive beyond the range of their cars in a day, and if they car charge overnight (the real charger priority should be to have type 2 charging available within five minutes walk of every house in areas with flats and mid-terrace houses) then they never need a DC charger.

If they do go on a long trip they're usually on holiday and not in a truly tearing hurry, not the sort of hurry that can't take a break of 30-40 minutes every couple of hours. It may not seem like it when you look at the cars tearing up and down the motorways, but journeys of "pony express" urgency are relatively uncommon in the grand scheme of things.

Partially corect. First, there is a chronic lack of nearby chargers. In my street, an isolated square with 250 single-family homes there are two chargers. I counted 20 electric vehicles. So, very often they are occupied. I can have walk to a nearby ac charger but they are almost as expensive as shell dc chargers...The next option usually will work, which is a 10 minute walk.
I did ask for two more chargers, just to find out they already agreed upon placing two extra...14 months ago
Even with 77kWh I can barely make it two days driving with 90% charge during the winter. In the summer it is fine for two days, but a third day isn't in it. So I charge 3 times a week minimal if I still wish to have juice for a weekend trip. In my petrol car I was used to fill it up once a week during any trip of choice. Now I need to charge it every second evening and I cannot use it while it is charging. So, even 77kWh is not enough for me. And I'm not the only one.
Lastly, manufactures will 'fight' for larger capacities with less weight to increase range. More range will trickle down the series of all car manufacturers, because even if you do not always need the juice you can still use the car. The other way around will not work (smaller batteries climb up the series). At least not as long as batteries are heavy (ergo suffering from high power consumption) and energy density remains similar. Some new and experimental batteries will do 125-150% better than current ones. But I do not see them coming on the market on a massive scale very soon. Maybe in five years or so.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, I'm sure you're right, which is why I said we need a lot more type 2 chargers all over the place. And they need to be affordable. At the moment a lot of local authorities don't understand the difference between AC and DC, seem fixated on DC provision, and when they think about AC at all seem to imagine they can charge DC prices and put overstay fines on them!

 

[johnb80]

I'm currently doing an 8 week contract which involves driving a Tesla Model Y round 8 major cities in the UK doing mapping and survey work. The charging infrastructure that Tesla have should be an example to all companies involved with EV's. I have always found a charger available, always working and charge at 250 kW gives 300 miles range in around 30 minutes. They charge less than 50p/kWh too; if Tesla can do it, all the others should be able to do it too.

 

[NLMGSAN]

Yes, I'm sure you're right, which is why I said we need a lot more type 2 chargers all over the place. And they need to be affordable. At the moment a lot of local authorities don't understand the difference between AC and DC, seem fixated on DC provision, and when they think about AC at all seem to imagine they can charge DC prices and put overstay fines on them!

Is it local authorities in the UK doing this? We have a liberal market. Commercial parties deliver power using commercial prices. As an example, in a university area they simply charge double the price compared to a regular neigbourhood. I can tell you that the board of my university and the deans still drive petrol cars...
The only thing the authorities do is decide whether or not they are going to put a charger anywhere because they have a 'policy'.

 

[Rolfe]

It's certainly local authorities in Scotland. Not exclusively, but in a lot of places. Complain about anything related to a ChargePlace Scotland charger and you'll be told, not our problem, the council owns these chargers and makes all the decisions on pricing and overstay fees and so on. Same in English towns, I've heard.

I'm currently doing an 8 week contract which involves driving a Tesla Model Y round 8 major cities in the UK doing mapping and survey work. The charging infrastructure that Tesla have should be an example to all companies involved with EV's. I have always found a charger available, always working and charge at 250 kW gives 300 miles range in around 30 minutes. They charge less than 50p/kWh too; if Tesla can do it, all the others should be able to do it too.

"Should have got a Tesla!"

I don't think the country can support separate dedicated charging networks for all the different brands of EV though. It's the wild west out there at the moment, but Tesla opening more and more sites to non-Teslas might kick off something interesting.

I think in the end we'll have a network of decent plug-in-and-charge sites across the country, usable by any car and at reasonable prices. God knows how long it will take though.

 

[tonybridge]

Is it all really coming round full circle that evs are charging too fast now ? I think what we need at these super fast charging hub cafés is thinner soups and smaller portions to speed up the slow charging human side of the equation.

We noticed at Exeter, that Costa will bring coffee to your car...

 

[Grriff]

We noticed at Exeter, that Costa will bring coffee to your car...

I'd expect nothing less than a butler with a silver platter given the cost/kWhr at some sites.

 

[NLMGSAN]

It's certainly local authorities in Scotland. Not exclusively, but in a lot of places. Complain about anything related to a ChargePlace Scotland charger and you'll be told, not our problem, the council owns these chargers and makes all the decisions on pricing and overstay fees and so on. Same in English towns, I've heard.

At least we both do not have to be jealous..

 

[johnb80]

"Should have got a Tesla!"

I don't think the country can support separate dedicated charging networks for all the different brands of EV though. It's the wild west out there at the moment, but Tesla opening more and more sites to non-Teslas might kick off something interesting.

I agree but the fact that Tesla have done a fantastic network to support their cars proves that it can be done without ripping off users, I charged today at 185 bkW at 45p per kWh, why cant all of the other providers match that pricing?

I think in the end we'll have a network of decent plug-in-and-charge sites across the country, usable by any car and at reasonable prices.

I hope so, we should be able to use any electricity supplier via any rapid charger at will.

God knows how long it will take though.

Aye, I'm with you on this one.