LFP longevity not panning out in the real world?

[tsedge]

In theory, LFP batteries should last for many more cycles than NMC, giving them a longer life.

However, I am increasingly hearing that this isn't always true in practice and I am curious if anyone has any more evidence on this.

The reasons put forward why LFP doesn't do as well in the real world compared to NMC:

• Manufacturers use LFP batteries as a low-cost option with little or no "buffers" whereas NMC typically have significant upper and lower buffers (as much as 7-10%) to protect against degradation. So while LFP commonly drops to the low 90%ish range after 2-3 years, NMC can still be at 100% (just with smaller buffers).

• NMC is typically charged to 80% most of the time, limiting the damage from high states of charge. LFP is typically charged to 100%, something it can tolerate much better, but which still causes some degredation (people do not typically know this), particularly when left at 100% for a long period of time.

• NMC tolerates high discharge and charge rates much better, so even with the higher charge speeds possible with NMC, less damage may be done through lots of public charging.

• LFP performs relatively poorly in cold weather, with more dramatic range drops than NMC, affecting real world range in colder climates.

• Battery aging effects are more dominant than was expected for all types of chemistry, so the benefits are less than were predicted.

• NMC real world ranges have held up better than all the predictions.

This is how the argument goes as I have heard it.

I accept that chemistry doesn't really matter that much and all battery types are good enough for most people. We will no doubt look back in a few years time and laugh at ourselves for being concerned with it, like debates on the type of oil we used to put in an ICE engine.

But I am curious nonetheless about how theory is translating into practice. All views welcome but particularly anyone with evidence to back them up.

 

[kiwi]

My view is that you’re right, it’s unknown. My solution? A bet each way. My wife drives a LFP MG ZS EV and I have the NMC MG4. She always charges to 100%, I stop at 85% but often go higher for long trips. We may never see enough degradation to answer the point before we upgrade. I’ll let you know in a few years. We have often run our vehicles for 300k km (185k mikes) and both do high miles each year.

 

[siteguru]

I'll let you know in another 5 years whether my LFP pack gives any issue.

 

[tsedge]

Fair enough both, let's revisit in a few years, see you back here @siteguru on 27th July 2030.

 

[salty]

It is quite interesting. But as already been said, who knows. To be honest, I'm gonna charge me car, when I want and how I want. Not really bothered, how they tell you, it's supposed to be charged. Think they are guessing half the time.
That's my way of thinking anyway.

 

[5teep]

Far too many folk (influencers..) on the internet who just talk sh*** and expect folk to believe it. With batteries especially, not just EV but all batteries, misinformation just propagates and you cannot stop it.

e.g. the nonsense about batteries suffering from a 'memory effect' where if you only ever charge to ~80% they will come to think they are full at 80%. I've seen youtubers and others say that all kinds of lithium batteries suffer from it and it's just not true.
Way back, way way back when Nickle Cadmium batteries were a thing, THEY had that problem but no batteries since have had it. But then some talking head with followers says it's so and suddenly it's all round the globe.

Understandably there's a fair bit of worry about how you treat an EV battery, it's a darned expensive item after all. We're getting to the point now where we can see that the worry is not warranted and as long as you don't regularly mistreat yours it will last way past the lifetime of the car.

 

[salty]

Absolutely, totally, agree.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

Kay sera sera,............

 

[Archev]

Kay sera sera,............

Where the heck do they mine sera’s ?

 

[kiwi]

It’s “Que será, será…” fixed it for you, amico.

 

[MG Clive]

It’s “Que será, será…” fixed it for you, amico.

Isn't it amigo ?

 

[Archev]

Isn't it amigo ?

Amico’s motorway barriers isn’t it ? - oh no - Armco

 

[MG Clive]

Amico’s motorway barriers isn’t it ? - oh no - Armco

LOL . Amico is Italian, Que será, será is Spanish, so it's amigo,

 

[Archev]

LOL . Amico is Italian, Que será, será is Spanish, so it's amigo,

Shouldn’t be a barrier to friendships

 

[siteguru]

Amico’s motorway barriers isn’t it ? - oh no - Armco

Useless knowledge ... I know the guy whose company supplies a lot of the Armco barriers used in the UK.

 

[kiwi]

@MG Clive it’s a complicated story, see:

Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Feel free to do your own Google down that rabbit hole, amici.

 

[tsedge]

Well, I have definitely learned something there, thanks folks, not sure it was the intended topic, but don't look a gift horse in the mouth and all of that!

 

[OriginalBigAl]

It’s “Que será, será…” fixed it for you, amico.

Cheers, but after many years of terrace choirs does your version get you to Wembley?