YouTube comment about MG4 battery management, LFP vs NMC

Interestingly, the battery degrading 0.01 [ edit: actually 0.0104 ] percent might be true as reported by the SoH parameter via OBD2 - but I wonder if when MG dealers read the parameter through MG software, this value is then adjusted based on mileage too.
My SoH is currently 96.5
 
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Interestingly, the battery degrading 0.01 percent might be true as reported by the SoH parameter via OBD2 - but I wonder if when MG dealers read the parameter through MG software, this value is then adjusted based on mileage too.
My SoH is currently 96.5
We need several people to correlate between a dealer service and an OBD2 reader to find out.
 
We need several people to correlate between a dealer service and an OBD2 reader to find out.
Since the SoH reported by OBD2 went below 97 on my SE SR, the GoM shows 217 miles instead of the original 218 when fully reset. So I lost 1 mile in around 1 year since manufacturing (8 months ownership).
 
The MG4 battery warranty in Australia & NZ is 7 years and unlimited mileage.

The debate on NMC vs LFP batteries rages on especially when it comes to longevity. There are plenty of well documented stats where Teslas with NMC batteries made by CATL as are MGs batteries have travelled over 500,000 km with less than 20% degradation, some less than 10%.

CATL stated way back that the NMC battery pack could get up to 1 million km with proper battery management, though no timeframe was mentioned in the comment. CATL are now producing battery packs for buses and trucks in China and are providing a 1.5 million km and 2 million km warranty for the different level packs.

Fully Charged Rob Llewellyn interviewed a bloke at the Everything Electric show in Sydney whose 2018 Tesla model S had just passed 740,000 km. At 666,666km a message came on the screen saying the battery was not happy. It was just shy of the 8 year battery warranty & he got a replacement one free.

Maybe the MG BMS is not perfect but probably none of them are. If it gets anywhere near the longevity in some of the documented statements I'll never know because it will outlast me.
 
Since the SoH reported by OBD2 went below 97 on my SE SR, the GoM shows 217 miles instead of the original 218 when fully reset. So I lost 1 mile in around 1 year since manufacturing (8 months ownership).
Yes, but you can't extrapolate anything useful from that because of MG's sleight of hand. They adjust the State of Health (SoH) to be something over 100% when new; call it 102% for argument's sake. But any SoH over 100% they report as 100%. So in the first 10 months or so, when the degradation is at its worst, say 102% down to 100%, it appears to the customer that it's not degraded at all. Wow, these CATL / SAIC batteries are great! But eventually the SoH drops to 99.9% and so on.

So after the first year, you might get a reading of 99.5% SoH. This works into the estimated range and reduces the figure from 218 to 217 miles. But it's really a 2.5% degradation (with my assumed initial SoH of 102%, which might be way off). That's the worst year out of the way; the second year might only be say 1.5%, but then the SoH will be down to 98%, so the estimated range would then be 98% of 218, or around 214. It looks like the degradation has increased 3 fold! But it's an artifact of the way they present the SoH. They postpone the panic from the first year to the second year, and by then it's too late to do much about it.

By the third or fourth year, the deception has largely faded away, and the figures tend towards what they really should be.

It may even be that this isn't a deliberate marketing ploy. Not all battery cells are identical. If they aim for say a 100 Ah cell, some might end up as 99.8 Ah and others at 100.3 Ah. To be safe, they call it a 98 Ah cell, and nobody gets less then what they "paid for". That could be the origin of most batteries coming in at around 102% SoH when new. It also means that nobody gets a car that happens to start at say 99.8% SoH; it just sounds like you've been ripped off.
 
It’s basically a calendar aging calculator: it’s the number of days since the battery pack was assembled.
It will be exactly 70% after 7 years. Interesting uh?
 
Yes, but you can't extrapolate anything useful from that because of MG's sleight of hand. They adjust the State of Health (SoH) to be something over 100% when new; call it 102% for argument's sake. But any SoH over 100% they report as 100%. So in the first 10 months or so, when the degradation is at its worst, say 102% down to 100%, it appears to the customer that it's not degraded at all. Wow, these CATL / SAIC batteries are great! But eventually the SoH drops to 99.9% and so on.

So after the first year, you might get a reading of 99.5% SoH. This works into the estimated range and reduces the figure from 218 to 217 miles. But it's really a 2.5% degradation (with my assumed initial SoH of 102%, which might be way off). That's the worst year out of the way; the second year might only be say 1.5%, but then the SoH will be down to 98%, so the estimated range would then be 98% of 218, or around 214. It looks like the degradation has increased 3 fold! But it's an artifact of the way they present the SoH. They postpone the panic from the first year to the second year, and by then it's too late to do much about it.

By the third or fourth year, the deception has largely faded away, and the figures tend towards what they really should be.

It may even be that this isn't a deliberate marketing ploy. Not all battery cells are identical. If they aim for say a 100 Ah cell, some might end up as 99.8 Ah and others at 100.3 Ah. To be safe, they call it a 98 Ah cell, and nobody gets less then what they "paid for". That could be the origin of most batteries coming in at around 102% SoH when new. It also means that nobody gets a car that happens to start at say 99.8% SoH; it just sounds like you've been ripped off.
You are right that in general the cells outperform the rated capacity. So it isn't unreasonable to go above 100%, it is the sensible thing to do.

I don't think there is any deception here, you could say the same about buffers, but they are there precisely to extend the life of the pack.
 
It’s basically a calendar aging calculator: it’s the number of days since the battery pack was assembled.
It will be exactly 70% after 7 years. Interesting uh?
I get 74.4%.

But I assume and hope that the -0.01% per day is just an interim measure for display purposes, but the actual SoH is calculated more slowly, perhaps at 3/6/12 monthly intervals, when large adjustments are possible, either up or down. That seems to be how it's done in the Nissan Leaf, for example.

There is a substantial calendar component to battery degradation; this is part of the reason that taxis can rack up such impressive odometer readings on the original battery. For them, the calendar component is significantly less than for typical cars. So you use it or lose it, to a point.
 
I get 74.4%.

But I assume and hope that the -0.01% per day is just an interim measure for display purposes, but the actual SoH is calculated more slowly, perhaps at 3/6/12 monthly intervals, when large adjustments are possible, either up or down. That seems to be how it's done in the Nissan Leaf, for example.

There is a substantial calendar component to battery degradation; this is part of the reason that taxis can rack up such impressive odometer readings on the original battery. For them, the calendar component is significantly less than for typical cars. So you use it or lose it, to a point.
Should have corrected my initial post: it’s -0.0104 daily according to calculations by another member of this forum last year on a ZS EV with an LFP battery.
 
Let's see what the LFP battery in the Coda that Out of Spec Podcasts is renovating turns out to be like. That sat immobile on a dealer's forecourt for over ten years with only about 50 miles on the clock.
 
The trend that I'm finding with the LFP version is that it reduces down to 95%, and then fluctuates for example 3rd April (19700miles) it was at 95.43%, and today SoH was 95.72% (20600miles) - done with carscanner (yes I have checked the values - as take a screen shot)
 

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The trend that I'm finding with the LFP version is that it reduces down to 95%, and then fluctuates for example 3rd April (19700miles) it was at 95.43%, and today SoH was 95.72% (20600miles) - done with carscanner (yes I have checked the values - as take a screen shot)
Yes, I would imagine the accuracy isn't that great as implied in the reading, so you are seeing some noise in the signal.
 
Let's see what the LFP battery in the Coda that Out of Spec Podcasts is renovating turns out to be like. That sat immobile on a dealer's forecourt for over ten years with only about 50 miles on the clock.
@Rolfe - can you send a link to this?

I couldn't find what you were referring to with this project. I'd heard of Out of Spec You Tube channel but not a Coda.
 
There are quite a few videos following up the find, including a bunch on Out Of Spec Detailing where someone cleans it within an inch of its life. He spoke about looking at the battery SoH but he hasn't done it yet as far as I can see.

The real killer is, when they found the car the tyres and the 12V were flat. All they had to do was inflate the tyres and put a battery jump-start pack on it, and it drove away! The traction battery was sitting at 30% and had been for 10 years apparently. It transpired that the 12V wasn't actually dead, but that the car stops topping it up once the traction battery gets to 30% to sacrifice the 12V to spare the traction battery. It had done that, and then just sat there with the traction battery holding its charge all that time. He still hasn't replaced the 12V as far as I know, though he keeps saying he's going to.

I keep checking his channel to see if there's another video about it.
 
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It's an amazing story. I'll be fascinated to see the HV battery's SoH when he finally gets round to measuring it. (Seems a bit odd to spend a fortune on detailing the car before finding that out, but on the other hand he seems more intent on keeping it as a curiosity than actually driving it.)
 
It's an amazing story. I'll be fascinated to see the HV battery's SoH when he finally gets round to measuring it. (Seems a bit odd to spend a fortune on detailing the car before finding that out, but on the other hand he seems more intent on keeping it as a curiosity than actually driving it.)
Yes I watched a couple of the videos. Interesting example - had never heard of this (short-lived but quite innovative) car brand!
 

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