Merged thread: Automatic Emergency Braking activating for no reason

[FrancisM]

I'm wondering if the AEB was not adequately tested for countries where they drive on the left.

 

[LenEV2016]

I'm wondering if the AEB was not adequately tested for countries where they drive on the left.

You could be right, or we can shorten your sentence to adequately tested full stop.

Oil leak backs that up
LKA
Vibration in X power
Under tray
Locking in issue

The list is long and not distinguished

 

[YaR]

Oh! So this does happen. Today, I was at the receiving end of the ghost AEB. Was coming down a hill and turning right in a 20mi zone. Cleared the turn and the very next moment the car triggers AEB. Only a red Ford in the opposite lane and nothing behind (fortunately). My previous car had collision alerts but it never intervened like this. So the phantom alerts were just alerts that could be ignored. New experiences with the car.

It's dramatic, isn't it? Clearly the brakes on the MG4 are effective, you stop almost instantly below 15mph in normal conditions when you stamp on them. Alarming when the car decides to randomly stop for you though.

Which is the whole problem. Clearly the AEB, like the LKA, is not fit for purpose, or at least not fit to be on by default. This is amply demonstrated by lots of people on this forum recommending that it be turned off to improve the driving experience. It's not an effective safety feature if people are actively encouraged to disable it because of poor performance and mandating that these systems be on by default is a terrible decision by regulators without also requiring proof that they work without being intrusive, ie noticeable, to drivers.

 

[LenEV2016]

It's dramatic, isn't it? Clearly the brakes on the MG4 are effective, you stop almost instantly below 15mph in normal conditions when you stamp on them. Alarming when the car decides to randomly stop for you though.

Which is the whole problem. Clearly the AEB, like the LKA, is not fit for purpose, or at least not fit to be on by default. This is amply demonstrated by lots of people on this forum recommending that it be turned off to improve the driving experience. It's not an effective safety feature if people are actively encouraged to disable it because of poor performance and mandating that these systems be on by default is a terrible decision by regulators without also requiring proof that they work without being intrusive, ie noticeable, to drivers.

It's not a terrible decision by regulators it's a terrible implementation by MG.

There have been later updates that have made both far more trustworthy but for some reason known only to MG they haven't routinely done it to everyone's car before pickup/at service.

 

[JonnyG]

.................but for some reason known only to MG they haven't routinely done it to everyone's car before pickup/at service.

Costs ?? ........ MG only want to sell cars it seems IMHO .... and not look after you once the car is sold .

 

[LenEV2016]

Costs ?? ........ MG only want to sell cars it seems IMHO .... and not look after you once the car is sold .

Nail head!!

 

[JonnyG]

Just one example of why they should be updating software etc. for free at every service ... ROAD SAFETY.

Are you listening MG UK ???? ... or don't you care ?

Which? car testing reveals serious concerns with MG4's lane assist technology - Which?

Which? lab technicians report concerning behaviour caused by the popular family car's lane assistance and departure-warning technology

www.which.co.uk

and the follow up response by MG

MG responds to reports of lane-assist concerns from MG4 owners - Which?

Following a Which? report of lane-assist steering problems with the MG4, numerous drivers got in touch to share their experiences

www.which.co.uk

 

[LenEV2016]

Only been one recall as well.

There is a recall for the MG4 vehicle in the UK due to a potential for the car to superlock while still running:
Recall number: R/2022/355
Recall date: January 7, 2023
Affected vehicles: 1,960
Repair: A software update

When a vehicle is affected by the recall, the doors will lock and cannot be opened, the remote key will be disabled, and the windows will not work.

To check if a vehicle is affected by the recall, you can contact the local MG MOTOR dealership or manufacturer.

But hey that unreliability survey is way off

 

[JonnyG]

Yeah the DVSA in the UK are useless as well IMHO .... no teeth at all to protect consumers.

This is their laughable (IMHO) reply to a recall on MG4 LKA given to Which? :-

‘DVSA investigations show this issue does not meet the criteria for a safety recall. Drivers who experience this are able to maintain control of the vehicle at all times, and they can switch off the system to allow the vehicle to be used."

Not what the Which report stated at all and why all the new regs to put LKA on new cars if the DVSA answer is to turn it off ??

 

[YaR]

It's not a terrible decision by regulators it's a terrible implementation by MG.

No, I strongly disagree with this. The responsibility of regulators is to ensure that minimum standards are appropriate before mandating them as compulsory. If MG make a compulsory system that doesn't work effectively and have it approved, then primary responsibility for it being sold to customers is on the regulator. They're the ones that signed it off. Buck stops with them. Nobody is alleging that MG committed fraud or error regarding the NCAP tests, so it is the tests at fault.

 

[LenEV2016]

No, I strongly disagree with this. The responsibility of regulators is to ensure that minimum standards are appropriate before mandating them as compulsory. If MG make a compulsory system that doesn't work effectively and have it approved, then primary responsibility for it being sold to customers is on the regulator. They're the ones that signed it off. Buck stops with them. Nobody is alleging that MG committed fraud or error regarding the NCAP tests, so it is the tests at fault.

Do you honestly think the car that they sent for testing wasn't working pretty much exactly as it should.
They are not going to send a complete bag of bolts for testing, it would have been checked and double checked before they handed it over.

 

[NLMGSAN]

Do you honestly think the car that they sent for testing wasn't working pretty much exactly as it should.
They are not going to send a complete bag of bolts for testing, it would have been checked and double checked before they handed it over.

Many of the issues reported about LKA were linked to situations not tested properly. And to be honest, most of them are not even relevant for homologation.

 

[JonnyG]

No, I strongly disagree with this. The responsibility of regulators is to ensure that minimum standards are appropriate before mandating them as compulsory. If MG make a compulsory system that doesn't work effectively and have it approved, then primary responsibility for it being sold to customers is on the regulator. They're the ones that signed it off. Buck stops with them. Nobody is alleging that MG committed fraud or error regarding the NCAP tests, so it is the tests at fault.

Not quite what Euro NCAP say but I agree that testing needs to improve and include proper road driving :-

Quote from Which Magazine (regarding MG4 LKA problems) :

"Euro NCAP didn’t comment specifically on the MG4 but said: ‘Vehicle manufacturers have a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle performance seen on a test track is also reflected in on-road driving."

 

[LenEV2016]

Not quite what Euro NCAP say but I agree that testing needs to improve and include proper road driving :-

Quote from Which Magazine (regarding MG4 LKA problems) :

"Euro NCAP didn’t comment specifically on the MG4 but said: ‘Vehicle manufacturers have a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle performance seen on a test track is also reflected in on-road driving."

There you go it worked on a test track for NCAP and MG just said bollocks to real world driving and the safety and wellbeing of our customers

 

[NLMGSAN]

Not quite what Euro NCAP say but I agree that testing needs to improve and include proper road driving :-

Quote from Which Magazine (regarding MG4 LKA problems) :

"Euro NCAP didn’t comment specifically on the MG4 but said: ‘Vehicle manufacturers have a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle performance seen on a test track is also reflected in on-road driving."

NCAP acts the same way the car manufacturers do: blame the other.

Homologation of a 2022 car meant it had to pas regular testing plus it needs to work according to the specific EU regulation about LKA (they use the name ELK system). The regulation describes the requirements of ELKS with two sub systems : LDWS and CDCF(Corrective Directional Control Function). The first one is the classic warning system (MG Alert mode), the second includes steering correction (no further distinctions are made in CDCF).
For LDWS an explicit requirement is that it works: "for solid line and dashed lane markings in line with one of those described in Annex 3 (Visible lane marking identification) to Regulation No 130 of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) – Uniform provisions concerning the approval of motor vehicles with regard to the Lane Departure Warning System (3) and other markings expected on EU roads".
The manufacturer has to hand over a compliance document, and NCAP is supposed to verify. In 2021 and 2022 NCAP did not test all road markers. Only a limited subset (you can download their test descriptions to check). They never tested your MG4 in circumstances resembling british country roads (apart from the fact that it isn't EU anymore).
Manufacturers knew NCAP tested only a limited number of circumstances. So they 'adjusted' to that (edit: assumption). And NCAP already admitted they have to extend their tests to more real life circumstances.
Conclusion: they are both to blame.

 

[JonnyG]

.....Conclusion: they are both to blame.

Agreed and is what I said above is it not ?

"I agree that testing needs to improve and include proper road driving"

and also from NCAP :-

"Vehicle manufacturers have a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle performance seen on a test track is also reflected in on-road driving"

 

[LenEV2016]

Agreed and is what I said above is it not ?

"I agree that testing needs to improve and include proper road driving"

and also from NCAP :-

"Vehicle manufacturers have a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle performance seen on a test track is also reflected in on-road driving"

I think you did

 

[NLMGSAN]

Agreed and is what I said above is it not ?

"I agree that testing needs to improve and include proper road driving"

and also from NCAP :-

"Vehicle manufacturers have a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle performance seen on a test track is also reflected in on-road driving"

True. I just used more words..

 

[LenEV2016]

True. I just used more words..

Seems to be the way on this forum

 

[AmperaE]

Last saturday evening I was driving on a main road between Montrose and Arbroath. It was dark, very windy and wet. I was driving in adaptive cruise control (acc) mode and had automatic emergcy braking (AEB) on. The MG4 suddenly braked quite strongly but briefly on the approach of an oncoming vehicle (in its own lane, I think in a bend). There were no cars in front of me or behind me.
I then switched off the AEB, but the same thing happened again twice a bit later. I blame the ACC, but I'm not sure. It might be a matter of calibration or aligning the radar, or just the weather.

I had emergy stops in town a couple of times. Once I was in acc and there were a parked vehicles in my lane. Another time when I approached a parked vehicle too quicky. Both occasions were not OK, but I could see a point.
Uninvited braking at high speed (60 mph) is quite disconcerting.
Any thoughts ? Is there perhaps a software update on it's way that can switch off all the automated crap once and forever ? I wish I had kept my Ampera-E