Merged thread: Automatic Emergency Braking activating for no reason

[Logan T]

Last saturday evening I was driving on a main road between Montrose and Arbroath. It was dark, very windy and wet. I was driving in adaptive cruise control (acc) mode and had automatic emergcy braking (AEB) on. The MG4 suddenly braked quite strongly but briefly on the approach of an oncoming vehicle (in its own lane, I think in a bend). There were no cars in front of me or behind me.
I then switched off the AEB, but the same thing happened again twice a bit later. I blame the ACC, but I'm not sure. It might be a matter of calibration or aligning the radar, or just the weather.

I had emergy stops in town a couple of times. Once I was in acc and there were a parked vehicles in my lane. Another time when I approached a parked vehicle too quicky. Both occasions were not OK, but I could see a point.
Uninvited braking at high speed (60 mph) is quite disconcerting.
Any thoughts ? Is there perhaps a software update on it's way that can switch off all the automated crap once and forever ? I wish I had kept my Ampera-E

I've had AEB occur 3 times at speeds of below 5 mph since I had the car 20 months ago. All on bends or traffic approaching from the side. All were unpleasant and could have caused a rear collision.

If it occurred at 60 mph I'd be at the MG dealer the next day demanding action.

 

[Cocijo]

I know that it’s not really much of a consolation, but in my experience no car manufacturers have got this area completely nailed down.
I’ve mentioned before that Tesla, who many consider to be better than most at car software, still have issues in this area.
It’s an introduction of something that is not quite ready. Is it an 80/20 situation? Probably. At the moment I guess it can prevent incidents and save lives, but it can also cause them. Is it viewed as a trade off?
I’ve owned and driven quite a lot of new cars over the last few years - many with what are considered to be the best safety systems - e.g. Volvo, BMW,, Mercedes, Tesla. All of the cars that I have experience of have issues at certain times when it comes to areas like automatic braking and cruise control. They getting better but they have a way to go.

 

[NLMGSAN]

I then switched off the AEB, but the same thing happened again twice a bit later. I blame the ACC, but I'm not sure. It might be a matter of calibration or aligning the radar, or just the weather.

Join the club. It is ACC. Not the AEB system
I drove hundreds of miles without acc and with AEB. No issues. Then I reversed to no AEB but with ACC and the very first day it happened. The usual suspect was an 80 kmh crossroad with traffic lights. Me going straight ahead, traffic in the right lane leaving the road. That traffic is slow and while passing that traffic my car slams the brakes.
After informing the dealer they said they had an update of the calibration. This helped. However, now the car is scared if it gets 'tunneled'. Particularly large vehicles such as trucks to both the left and right scares the car. So it just slams the brakes. Bad weather doesn't help.

 

[AmperaE]

Join the club. It is ACC. Not the AEB system
I drove hundreds of miles without acc and with AEB. No issues. Then I reversed to no AEB but with ACC and the very first day it happened. The usual suspect was an 80 kmh crossroad with traffic lights. Me going straight ahead, traffic in the right lane leaving the road. That traffic is slow and while passing that traffic my car slams the brakes.
After informing the dealer they said they had an update of the calibration. This helped. However, now the car is scared if it gets 'tunneled'. Particularly large vehicles such as trucks to both the left and right scares the car. So it just slams the brakes. Bad weather doesn't help.

Thanks for the expanation. When I understand you correctly, you say leave AEB on but do not use ACC (except perhaps on motorways). And be careful with calibration, because it might get worse.

 

[NLMGSAN]

Thanks for the expanation. When I understand you correctly, you say leave AEB on but do not use ACC (except perhaps on motorways). And be careful with calibration, because it might get worse.

That would be my suggestion. Both radar and camera are not flawless, whether because calibration or obstruction issues. I have detected errors of the ACC system such as seeing 'ghost objects', or it interprets cars/vehicles that are actually to the right of you as if they are in front of you. AEB is activated based on such errors.

 

[GoElectric]

What is MG4 using as sensors for ACC?

If it is using also camera in the nose, the ghosts could (apart from code problems) appear also due to dirty lens cover or reflections from within the module.

What I mean by the latter is it maybe can happen that the camera module sees a reflection on the lens cover from within the module. Like for example you can see your eye/face in sunglasses under certain sun angle conditions. It would be interesting to test with an antireflection film on the inside of the lens cover.

When I notice this happening I usually immediately override by pressing throttle pedal. Luckily it very rarely happens.

 

[NLMGSAN]

It uses camera and radar.
If the camera lens is dirty, sudden braking would not be associated with e.g. parked cars to the side of you. It would happen everywhere and in any situation. But true, it does no help.
I have a video that shows at one point the sensors actually spot a motorcycle in the emergency lane when there was nothing but a steel barrier. Also, while overtaking a truck the system displays the truck to right, suddenly again in front of me (car drops in speed), and then the truck disappears to the right again.
Note that the manual warns for ineffectiveness of ACC in case of "Encounters a vehicle with a higher chassis (e.g. a truck)."

In other words, the ACC sensors and software are far from perfect.

 

[ReintjeWA]

I always wonder how the car knows (or thinks it knows) there is a car ahead of the car in front of me. Surely the radar nor the camera could see that, so it would be an estimated guess right? Or would the radar see the next car through the first car's windows maybe?

 

[siteguru]

The radar is low down in the bumper, so depending on road elevation/undulation it may "see" something ahead of the vehicle in front.

 

[WonkoTheSaneUK]

I always wonder how the car knows (or thinks it knows) there is a car ahead of the car in front of me. Surely the radar nor the camera could see that, so it would be an estimated guess right? Or would the radar see the next car through the first car's windows maybe?

The radar sensor is behind the coloured panel below the number plate and between the vent grilles.

 

[markglawrence]

[ Moderator: This is the start of a thread merged with this older but still active thread. Continuity may be affected in later posts. ]

New to this forum.
Has anybody else experienced this?
Driving on a quiet road, nothing in front and a few cars behind is.
The car suddenly brought us to a sudden stop for no reason that I could think of.

 

[siteguru]

Set the sensitivity for AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) to Low. The system will have detected something, or thought it did, so brought you to a stop. Were you driving into a low sun?

 

[chromeskull]

Funnily enough this happened to me on Sunday in my MG4.
popped into the supermarket and the car park entrance next to the petrol station bends back on itself (180 left turn) as it splits off to either go to one side of the car park or the other.
About half way around the bend, I indicated right to go to the closest side of the car park, a car had emerged in the opposite direction I was heading for on it's side of the lane.
Literally as I crossed over the wight lines to turn into that entrance my car panicked and locked all 4 wheels. I was going less than 10mph at that point (sharpish corner) but this had put me dead of the road. A bit embarrassing trying to get the car to move again by dabbing the brakes and then the throttle to no joy. After a couple of seconds it allowed me to move off.
I assume my car thought the other car was heading towards me during its own turn.
See the attached image of the site. I emergency stopped at the red X, the other car was at the Yellow Arrow when it stopped.

 

[markglawrence]

Thanks all for your responses. It’s comforting to know that it’s not just me.
It’s a new car and my local dealer has said that it’s a safety issue and need to get the car to them.
My wife was driving at the time and we were both in shock after it happened.
I fear that if the garage doesn’t identify and correct an issue I don’t see my wife ever getting back in to it. Very shaken up.
IMHO it is not acceptable for cars to take over driving decisions like this. It was v fortunate not to have caused an accident. Much hooting and hand gestures caused, no actual contact though.

 

[Everest]

I don’t see my wife ever getting back in to it. Very shaken up.

I can totally understand that! These automated systems are simply not up to coping with real-life situations.

This is something I've been looking into before buying an MG4, but from what I have read it is possible to totally disable the emergency braking system before you drive the car (someone please correct me if that is not the case!). Though that has to be done on every journey which I can see will be a real nuisance.

 

[salty]

New to this forum.
Has anybody else experienced this?
Driving on a quiet road, nothing in front and a few cars behind is.
The car suddenly brought us to a sudden stop for no reason that I could think of.

Hello, Mark. Despite, your bad experience.

To the forum.

 

[David9448]

When I first bought my used SE LR, last October, I had 4 instances of OMG Braking in as many weeks, twice with my dog in the back(in his crate)he was not happy. Since then I've been turning the Front collision warning off every trip, although just recently I've gone with just changing the alert level to low, which has worked so far. But once it's happened a few times, it puts you on edge, and I'm still constantly expecting another episode.

In my humble opinion I think it's a problem with calibration, some people don't seem to have a problem with it and yet for others it happens more often.

I don't know if any of the latest updates have improved matters at all, I'm still on an early instance of the software, R13, and don't really want to upgrade it, as I'm happy with it as it is, with no other real problems.

 

[markglawrence]

Well here’s my opinion not in any vehicle should anything that might affect the actions of that vehicle on the road default to On.

You are the driver and you should decide what is right or wrong for your journey, when a vehicle brakes suddenly and unexpectedly that might, cause an accident in some circumstances.
Or the steering on the vehicle decides it is going to turn the vehicle left or right and might run you into an oncoming vehicle or a lamp post, it will be you the driver that will be standing in the dock or by the grave side, not the software that might have cause it and not the person who designed it.
Not the NCAP people who demanded it. To some box.
No it’s you.
The driver should have total control of the vehicle they are driving at all times from the start to the Finish of there journey and it is the driver only that is responsible for the action of the vehicle they are driving.

DEFAULTS don’t count.
Les

Well said Les.
I've just joined the forum prompted by an AEB incident in my brand new MG4.
I'd been struggling with the Lane assist function which misinterprets smaller roads and is frequently trying to turn the wheel. Very dangerous.
My wife was driving when the emergency brake was slammed on. Nothing in front of us at all. She was very shaken. In shock, in fact.
Assuming the garage will return it finding no fault, I don't see her getting into the car again!
Going to be an interesting conversation with the dealership.

 

[Martinonline]

When I first had my Trophy emergency braking occured twice as I was turning right with a car in the other lane. I switched Front Collision protection sensitivity to medium and now only get alerts in the chicane roads in my area. I've also switched off braking on the Rear Cross Traffic protection as it slammed on the brakes as I reversed out of my drive. (I need to drive in forward for charging.)

 

[BobA]

Well said Les and others. I agree and here is why.

1. The position in law is exactly as described.

2. The car's behaviour is as described. Others are similar. Tesla has the 'best' software and the worst safety record.

3. Too many organisations are 'chasing the money' regardless of safety.

Govt and NCAP, in particular, are you listening? NCAP is actually promoting unsafe cars when it should be warning users of bad behaviour! How do I know? It's on public record for all to see - eg. US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - just ask Google.

4. I speak from experience: two years and 11,000 miles into MG4 ownership with extensive use of the latest software. I well understand it's behaviour; what it can and can't do and I'm able to use it reasonably safely for most day-to-day driving and motorways. Most of my driving is alone; feet off the pedals using just hand controls for driving and voice for everything else.

5. Be aware that the PRO ASSIST software learning process is slow, long, tedious and occasionally surprising. Bluntly, it's dangerous and unfit for public use. I don't use it with passengers because it's too crude and frightens them but I can control my car sufficiently well to not frighten other road users.

6. Knowing what I do, would I get/recommend one of these cars for my wife or son? - definitely NO.

7. Will I continue with feet-off software-assisted driving? NO - I did it out of professional curiosity and I don't trust it. It's too crude and unsafe.

5. Credentials: Driving experience: 950,000 miles over 67 years
Technical: Aerospace, control systems, telemetry, telecontrol, human behaviour.