MG ZS EV 80% charge distance

[Jomarkh]

HVAC is heater and air conditioning etc. If this is on the car take this as extra load on the battery so reduces the GOM.

 

[LeeB]

What is HVAC,and how do you turn it off!

HVAC is the ventilation/heating system. Having it completely off before starting your charge apparently help to show the estimate mileage as the advertised amount.

However, I find not resetting the trip data etc and just leaving it as is results in the estimated mileage being closer to real-world mileage, as the car has recognised my driving style/trip types, and therefore the estimated mileage is more accurate.

If you reset the mileage, and do the HVAC trick, when you next do 5 miles at your usual driving style/battery useage, it might take 10 miles of instead…so by doing these tricks, you’d just be robbing Peter to feed Paul…if that makes sense?! lol

Personally, in my opinion, I’d rather have an accurate real-world estimate, rather than tricking it to show the factory advised best-case estimate.

 

[RetiredPope]

@RetiredPope
This is MG

Thanks for the reply. That's the first time I've come across this advice, will read the manual carefully when I get my ZS in a few weeks.

Interestngly, the Tesla advice is not from an official website. During both post order induction and handover of my model S the Tesla staff stressed both not charging to 100% unless necessary, and keeping the charge between 20 and 80% to minimise charging times, specially at superchargers.

 

[N2STY]

Thanks for the reply. That's the first time I've come across this advice, will read the manual carefully when I get my ZS in a few weeks.

Interestngly, the Tesla advice is not from an official website. During both post order induction and handover of my model S the Tesla staff stressed both not charging to 100% unless necessary, and keeping the charge between 20 and 80% to minimise charging times, specially at superchargers.

Definitely makes sense for any DC charging not to go above the 80% but that's a different can of worms

 

[Gadget Geek]

I really do have a problem with this recommendation from MG but only on the LONG RANGE model and would be extremely grateful if somebody can explain to me why I have wrong ??.
We know and understand that the battery chemistry in the standard range is completely different to that in the long range version .
In the standard range model you NOT able to set a percentage charging level, you have to charge to 100% every single time, so therefore as you are likely to leave the car plugged in and go on to commence a HV battery balance / equalizing cycle ( same thing, different name ).
The long range has a different chemistry and that MG recommends that for daily use and shorter trips, you charge the battery up to 80% and then ONLY charge to 100% level for longer journeys to assist with long term HV battery life .
Okay, I can totally understand and see the point of this recommendation due to battery chemistry.
However, as we already know a balance charge can NOT commence until the HV battery has reached 100% fully charged.
Now compare the above MG recommendation of :- "In order to maintain the health of the high - voltage battery pack, the customer should carry out equalizing charge once a month".
Then that is contradiction in terms, on the long range model surely ?.
So, if by charging to 80% SOC on a LR totally suits the customer needs for the majority of their usage, why are you then having to follow guidance to then charge to 100% and balance at least 12 times a year to satisfy this advice, I clearly see this as contradiction in terms surely ??.
They both don't work hand in hand really, do they ???.
Restrict your charging to 100% to maintain the health of your battery followed by charge 100% once a month to perform a balance.
Surly it has to be an incorrect "cut and paste" exercise and applied to the LR model ?.
Which is not uncommon in the manual as we know.
Answers on a post card to MG Customer Services.

Maybe these articles will help.

Overview of batteries and battery management for electric vehicles

Popularization of electric vehicles (EVs) is an effective solution to promote carbon neutrality, thus combating the climate crisis. Advances in EV bat…

www.sciencedirect.com

Top 10 Tips to Maximize EV Battery Life | Blackridge Research

The battery is an EV’s most critical and expensive component. Check out our blog to learn more about the top 10 tips to maximize EV battery life.

www.blackridgeresearch.com

 

[Gadget Geek]

What is HVAC,and how do you turn it off!

Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning. Second button from the left under the screen and press the off button icon at the top right.

 

[Andy L]

What is HVAC,and how do you turn it off!

otherwise known as Air Conditioning

 

[N2STY]

otherwise known as Air Conditioning

Actually heating ventilation and air conditioning just to be picky

 

[Cocijo]

That’s what I expected, but it wasn’t drawing any current, so I can assume it didn’t need to balance. Just surprised as it was 1st time charging to 100% in 4 months of ownership (usually only charge to 80%) as that is recommended for the battery on the long range ZS

And to the original question, my long range is showing 184 miles @100% similar, lots of short journeys, max usually about 30 round trip

It could be that your pack is balanced. Unless you have a lot of rapid charging the cells don’t tend to go that far out of balance (depending on use and the pack/Bms itself). So it could be you’re ok.
If you are concerned check your range with all trips zero’d and you can also cycle the pack and fully charge again if you wish.

 

[RetiredPope]

Maybe these articles will help.

Overview of batteries and battery management for electric vehicles

Popularization of electric vehicles (EVs) is an effective solution to promote carbon neutrality, thus combating the climate crisis. Advances in EV bat…

www.sciencedirect.com

Top 10 Tips to Maximize EV Battery Life | Blackridge Research

The battery is an EV’s most critical and expensive component. Check out our blog to learn more about the top 10 tips to maximize EV battery life.

www.blackridgeresearch.com

But the second article on extending battery life recommends only charging to 100% when necessary, rather than once a month. It doesn't mention battery balancing at all.

 

[Lovemyev]

But the second article on extending battery life recommends only charging to 100% when necessary, rather than once a month. It doesn't mention battery balancing at all.

I have just finished reading through these, the first article is extremely full of detail and extremely deep & heavy, but offers no answer to my question TBH.
The second article is much easier read and offers some good "Tip's & Tricks".
Definitely worth a read if you would like to know more on HV batteries and how to treat them.
The tips contained appears here, appear to match closely how MG would like you to help with the long term life of looking after HV pack on the LONG RANGE model.
Stating on a couple of occasions, to avoiding charging to 100% unless you intend to take on a larger journey.
But in fact, recommending that you only charge to 80% SOC for short trips in daily use.
You need to charge to 100% before the balance cycle can commence, so therefore I am unable to find an answer to my question contained in this article here.
I have included a snap shot of some of the tip's below.

 

[Gadget Geek]

I have just finished reading through these, the first article is extremely full of detail and extremely deep & heavy, but offers no answer to my question TBH.
The second article is much easier read and offers some good "Tip's & Tricks".
Definitely worth a read if you would like to know more on HV batteries and how to treat them.
The tips contained appears here, appear to match closely how MG would like you to help with the long term life of looking after HV pack on the LONG RANGE model.
Stating on a couple of occasions, to avoiding charging to 100% unless you intend to take on a larger journey.
But in fact, recommending that you only charge to 80% SOC for short trips in daily use.
You need to charge to 100% before the balance cycle can commence, so therefore I am unable to find an answer to my question contained in this article here.
I have included a snap shot of some of the tip's below.

View attachment 14488

View attachment 14489

View attachment 14490

Can you clarify what your question is, because I see no contradiction in the advice.

 

[Lovemyev]

Can you clarify what your question is, because I see no contradiction in the advice.

Of course !.
Both sets of advice clear matches, with the exception of the fact that your are also advised to carry out a balance charge once per month by MG.
That there is the contradiction !.
You are charging to 100% because you have to, before you can carry out a balance cycle.
Therefore you are committed to adding 12 full 100% charging cycles to your yearly total, which maybe was not necessary.
It clearly states by both parties to avoid charging to 100% unless, it is required to carry out a longer journey, as the fully charging practice IS harmful for the long term health of your HV battery.
On the standard range model with the different battery chemistry the instruction is as clear as glass, but on the long range model it is as clear as mud.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Of course !.
Both sets of advice clear matches, with the exception of the fact that your are also advised to carry out a balance charge once per month by MG.
That there is the contradiction !.
You are charging to 100% because you have to, before you can carry out a balance cycle.
Therefore you are committed to adding 12 full 100% charging cycles to your yearly total, which maybe was not necessary.
It clearly states by both parties to avoid charging to 100% unless, it is required to carry out a longer journey, as the fully charging practice IS harmful for the long term health of your HV battery.
On the standard range model with the different battery chemistry the instruction is as clear as glass, but on the long range model it is as clear as mud.

Ah, I can see where you are coming from on this.

I think the key phrase here is "long term health". I am not an expert on battery chemistry and physiscs, but I have read a lot, and everything is about the bell curve.

The optimal state of charge for the battery is 50% (the user manual mentions about not letting the charge fall below 50% when not used for a long time), with one end of the curve at 20% and the other at 80%. Kept within this curve, the battery will experience the normal degredation that every battery has when being used.

Go below 20% on a regular basis, or above 80% and the battery will experience a slightly higher rate of degredation over time. How much time is dependant on the use case of the vehicle.

Take 2 cars, car A has a commute each day which leaves the battery at around 20% and has a slow charge overnight to 80%. Car B is a sales rep car which starts the day at 100%, rapid charges each day and gets home with 5%-10% charge remaining and charges overnight to 100%.

Car A may see 1% degredation over a year where car B may be 5%.

Over the life of the battery, which may be 20 years or more, 12, 100% charges a year out of a possible 365 would probably not have a measurable effect on the normal degredation of the battery.

Most articles I have read on this subject are very vague on the time scales of degredation and cell balancing due to many use cases of the battery. A lot of manufacturers say "every so often" for cell balancing, without giving any indication of how often that should be. Credit to MG for suggesting once a month as this makes the owner aware that they shouldn't be charging to 100% every day, and that once a month they should balance the cells.

I look at it as taking care of a very expensive purchase, with the battery being around £6,000. Why wouldn't you want to look after it? An expensive ICE sports car needs oil and filter changes, otherwise the engine will deteriorate over time. Also, tyres kept at the correct pressures will degrade slower than tyres with incorrect pressures.

Maybe MG should have said "only charge to 100% before a long journey AND once a month to balance the cells".

 

[Cocijo]

Most owners will have sold or changed their cars well before having to worry about any degradation. We change our cars quite often in the uk.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Most owners will have sold or changed their cars well before having to worry about any degradation. We change our cars quite often in the uk.

Exactly, it's not really worth worrying about, although if you sell your car, the buyer can ask for an AA inspection (or equivalent), and they can see the battery history. Just like an ICE car, a battery (engine) which has been lovingly looked after will attract a better resale price.

 

[Lovemyev]

Maybe MG should have said "only charge to 100% before a long journey AND once a month to balance the

Totally agree !.
They have purposely removed the ability for the standard range to charge at a SOC lower than 100% due to the chemistry make up of the battery, but not so on the longer range due to a different battery chemistry type.
But then failed to offer advice on how to suit that different battery chemistry type.
But then goes on to contradict that advice by then stating that you should charge once a month to balance the pack, which was and still is my whole point.
A cut and paste exercise that suits one but not the other.
It could be seen like this, I guess ?.
Selling a long range to a customer who charges from a very low SOC and then continual bangs it back up to 100% every single day, without fail.
Balancing gets done by default with out fail, which it clearly does not require in this type of usage pattern.
Therefore the car receives no rest-bite when using it in the heavenly suggested SOC range of charging UP TO the 80% SOC for better battery health long term ?.
No two usage patterns are ever going to be the same across numerous different owners anyway.
It looks like it will never be defined clear cut answer on how the long ranger battery pack should be correctly treated for long term health then.
Do you balance once a month like the suggested practice on the standard range or not, even if contradict the advice of limiting charging to 100% only for the longer journeys is the 99 dollar question ??.
Well - only time will tell I guess.
Personally in almost 9 months of ownership I have found that charging to 80% suit the majority of our needs over 8,500 miles.
After having the Gen1 model for over two years and 20,000 miles the extra range at 80% SOC is brilliant.
I have only charged once to 90% and another time to 100% to take on a one off unknown previous trip.
Very true to say that my battery has not received the recommend balance charge of once cycle per month then.
It should ( according to contradiction of advice for my long term battery health ) it SHOULD have received NINE 100% charges and go on then to receive NINE balance cycles by this point.

 

[Cocijo]

Exactly, it's not really worth worrying about, although if you sell your car, the buyer can ask for an AA inspection (or equivalent), and they can see the battery history. Just like an ICE car, a battery (engine) which has been lovingly looked after will attract a better resale price.

That’s interesting. How does the AA get battery history and what does it show?

 

[Gadget Geek]

That’s interesting. How does the AA get battery history and what does it show?

I believe they plug into the OBD port and use the kit they have to clear error codes from a bricked car. It can interrogate all the logs in the car. Can anyone confirm this is correct?

 

[N2STY]

I believe they plug into the OBD port and use the kit they have to clear error codes from a bricked car. It can interrogate all the logs in the car. Can anyone confirm this is correct?

They will just read the battery state of health like we can with OBD2 with free app