MG4 support for smart tariffs and charger integration

[ElectricWizard]

I understand that the MG4 is not supported by many smart electricity tariffs such as Octopus Intelligent or for chargers to be able to determine the car's SOC because MG do not have an API to share this information with 3rd parties. Is this the case for all cars MG make and is there any indication this situation may change for either new or existing MG EVs? It really seems like an unbelievably bad and limiting decision by MG to not provide this functionality for what is almost a universal feature on all other new EVs now. I really like my MG4 but when selecting my next car I absolutely would consider this functionality as a critical feature I would want my next car to have.

 

[ukslim]

MG has that API, it's just that every manufacturer has a different API. There may or may not be licensing or contracts to be exchanged for a charger to use an API. Charger makers have to decide where to focus their developers' energies, and support for the MG API is competing with other priorities.

I think it's a real shame that the industry isn't settling on shared open standards for things like APIs. There ought to be an industry-wide standard for charger-asks-car-for-SOC. But apparently there isn't yet. Hopefully things will mature.

Same goes for Plug & Charge (plug you car into a charger and walk away -- car securely identifies itself, charger can find out how much charge you want at what prices, charges you and debits an account accordingly). Tesla has one standard. ISO has another. A few chargers support one or the other, a few cars support one or the other. Most of us don't benefit because we haven't got it. Manufacturers not adding it because chicken-and-egg.

CarWow says MG4 is currently the third most popular EV after Tesla Y and Tesla 3. I hope that would incentivise Ohme and/or Octopus to put some focus on working with MG's API.

Ohme on API support Charging with API Support :

Precise charging support is an Ohme Labs feature and is currently available for the following manufacturers

• BMW
• Hyundai
• Jaguar
• Land Rover
• Kia
• Nissan
• Renault
• Tesla
• MINI

As you can see, the list is quite short, and it's plausible they've had to add support for each of those brands one-by-one. And no Polestar, Volvo, Audi, Peugeot, Ford, VW, ... as well as MG.

... which could all be fixed if the industry as a whole settled on a standard API for something as simple and basic as this.

 

[kendersec]

I don't know if this is common but I saw SoC reported on an InstaVolt charger last week while I was charging.

 

[ukslim]

I don't know if this is common but I saw SoC reported on an InstaVolt charger last week while I was charging.

Yes, I think you can set a target SOC on some public chargers too. But it's just so patchy, which combination of charger and car supports what.

 

[ElectricWizard]

I don't know if this is common but I saw SoC reported on an InstaVolt charger last week while I was charging.

I understand with DC charging there is a standard where the car can communicate the SOC to the charger, however not with AC charging, so this isn't anything MG have implemented specifically

MG has that API, it's just that every manufacturer has a different API. There may or may not be licensing or contracts to be exchanged for a charger to use an API. Charger makers have to decide where to focus their developers' energies, and support for the MG API is competing with other priorities.

I think it's a real shame that the industry isn't settling on shared open standards for things like APIs. There ought to be an industry-wide standard for charger-asks-car-for-SOC. But apparently there isn't yet. Hopefully things will mature.

Same goes for Plug & Charge (plug you car into a charger and walk away -- car securely identifies itself, charger can find out how much charge you want at what prices, charges you and debits an account accordingly). Tesla has one standard. ISO has another. A few chargers support one or the other, a few cars support one or the other. Most of us don't benefit because we haven't got it. Manufacturers not adding it because chicken-and-egg.

CarWow says MG4 is currently the third most popular EV after Tesla Y and Tesla 3. I hope that would incentivise Ohme and/or Octopus to put some focus on working with MG's API.

This is somewhat encouraging if MG do have an API so in theory this support can be worked on, I had previously read that MG flat out didn't have one.

 

[Barbette]

Back in April I contacted Ohme and asked about API support for the MG4. I got a fairly swift response of “it’s part of the plans, but no date yet “

 

[ukslim]

I understand with DC charging there is a standard where the car can communicate the SOC to the charger, however not with AC charging, so this isn't anything MG have implemented specifically

Ah that seems plausible. CCS does have some data exchange that seems to be pretty standardised. Even though Plug & Charge isn't widely implemented, FastNed have been able to achieve something almost as good, if it works as they say - https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/115012747127-Autocharge- - because they can get a unique identifier from the car.

The only problem is that it's not as nailed-down cryptographically secure as the Plug & Charge spec, but that can be mitigated in various ways (mostly, that if someone hacked it, you'd challenge the charge, and they'd have to refund you).

And Fastned say the same thing can't be done with Type 2, which backs up what you said about CCS. But it's a pity, because I think plug-in-and-walk-away would be especially useful for public AC chargers. Park, plug in, get on with your visit.

Back in April I contacted Ohme and asked about API support for the MG4. I got a fairly swift response of “it’s part of the plans, but no date yet “

Yeah, I think that's all the could ever say, unfortunately. We'll know nothing, and then one day, maybe, it'll happen.

 

[tsedge]

I understand with DC charging there is a standard where the car can communicate the SOC to the charger, however not with AC charging, so this isn't anything MG have implemented specifically

Correct. The CCS standard can communicate the SOC (and a whole lot more) to the charger. Type 2, unfortunately, contains no such capability.

 

[mg4mc]

Which I have always thought is odd, because it has access to the same data connections as CCS. Why not just use the CCS protocol on your <insert make here> "intelligent" type 2 home charger?

 

[ukslim]

Which I have always thought is odd, because it has access to the same data connections as CCS. Why not just use the CCS protocol on your <insert make here> "intelligent" type 2 home charger?

Because the CCS pins aren't connected, and to do so would make the plugs more unwieldy and expensive.

 

[mg4mc]

But I thought the CCS pins were just the DC pos/neg. The CCS connector incorporates the Type 2 connector because that has the data pins?

Must search 'tinernet for pinouts.......

Edit: Yep the Type 2 PP and CP pins carry the data signalling for both Type 2 and CCS

 

[tsedge]

But I thought the CCS pins were just the DC pos/neg. The CCS connector incorporates the Type 2 connector because that has the data pins?

Must search 'tinernet for pinouts.......

Edit: Yep the Type 2 PP and CP pins carry the data signalling for both Type 2 and CCS

It isn't about the pins, it is about the standard that runs over them.

 

[mg4mc]

Yep, I know nothing about this, but simplistically my thought is... could they not use the CCS API just to get the SOC which appears to work on fast chargers, and use the type 2 API to control the charge which also seems to work on home chargers.

I know there may be very good reasons why that cannot be done. But knowing nothing of the standards, I'm asking the question and hopefully somebody who does know how it works at a technical level may know the answer.

But saying you need a CCS connector and cable to access the data pins is plain wrong.

 

[tsedge]

Yep, I know nothing about this, but simplistically my thought is... could they not use the CCS API just to get the SOC which appears to work on fast chargers, and use the type 2 API to control the charge which also seems to work on home chargers.

I know there may be very good reasons why that cannot be done. But knowing nothing of the standards, I'm asking the question and hopefully somebody who does know how it works at a technical level may know the answer.

But saying you need a CCS connector and cable to access the data pins is plain wrong.

I am no standards expert, but my understanding is that Type 2 became established early and was essentially frozen so it would be the same standard everywhere and simply didn't cater for this. Part of the reason CCS was created was to address this (and to provide a rapid DC standard).

When CCS was created they were mindful of the prevalence of Type 2 and so it was clever to reuse that connector as part of CCS, so that cars would just have to add the 2 pins for DC charging and not a separate connector - this was unlike Chademo which is completely separate, so if you have a Chademo car (like a Leaf) you have two separate charging ports.

In the US, 3 phase AC is comparatively rare, so when Tesla were creating their network, they saw a way to have a much smaller connector that could use the same two pins for AC (single phase) or DC charging. The result is now the NACS standard, but it couldn't be used in Europe because it doesn't have enough pins for 3 phase AC charging. It is a lot more compact (as a connector). However, Tesla based their signalling on CCS, so it was comparatively easy for them to support CCS connectors in Europe.

Note that in the US CCS v1 is used, in Europe CCS v2, the connectors and standards are a bit different but similar.

 

[fnegroni]

Ah that seems plausible. CCS does have some data exchange that seems to be pretty standardised. Even though Plug & Charge isn't widely implemented, FastNed have been able to achieve something almost as good, if it works as they say - https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/115012747127-Autocharge- - because they can get a unique identifier from the car.

The only problem is that it's not as nailed-down cryptographically secure as the Plug & Charge spec, but that can be mitigated in various ways (mostly, that if someone hacked it, you'd challenge the charge, and they'd have to refund you).

And Fastned say the same thing can't be done with Type 2, which backs up what you said about CCS. But it's a pity, because I think plug-in-and-walk-away would be especially useful for public AC chargers. Park, plug in, get on with your visit.



Yeah, I think that's all the could ever say, unfortunately. We'll know nothing, and then one day, maybe, it'll happen.

Having used Fastned’s Auto Charge today twice in a row I can confirm it works exactly as advertised!
Best charger design in my opinion. Including their swing arm cable management

 

[griff1000]

Bit late to the party, but just to be clear Octopus Intelligent Go requires a compatible car OR charger - either one will do. I’ve got an MG4 (incompatible) and an Ohme HomePro charger (compatible) and I’m happily using Octopus Intelligent Go