Nice and Tidy?

[Vingnut]

As a side note in Norway we are not alowed to use Granny chargers at our homes (only wall boxes), Granny chargers are to be used on trips where public charging are not available or in a emergency (read not as the main charging device). Works ok here.

 

[johnb80]

Back EMF.

Nothing to do with back EMF, this is typically to do with magnetic devices, transformers, motors etc. In simple terms, when a motor is in operation you have changing magnetic fields which induce voltage into the windings, this is the back EMF and the very reason why a motor takes a greater current when its started and/or accelerated, the back emf is low and therefore the incoming current is higher.

Induction heating effects can occur dependent on the the design of the system receiving the power but should be significantly less than the resistance heating effects. IET Documents set out the maximum currents allowed for various cable wire areas dependent on how much the cables are surrounded by insulation.

Induction wont occur because the live and neutral are in the same cable, the induced magnetic field from each is equal and opposite. The heating from coiled extensions is purely resistive

Thus best practice is to uncoil all current-carrying cables, particularly those with large currents and subject to continuous use - as is specified on all drum extension leads I've seen.

Absolutely sound advice, loosley coiled hung on a wall hook should be ok, plenty of air circulation as opposed to a trip hazard.

 

[siteguru]

Induction wont occur because the live and neutral are in the same cable, the induced magnetic field from each is equal and opposite. The heating from coiled extensions is purely resistive

Because it's coiled, the resistive heating accumulates (traps heat within the coils) so the higher the load, the higher the heating effect, the greater the compound heating of a coiled cable.

 

[Yorkshire Hillbilly]

I was simply curious as to how long it would take to granny charge. You have satisfied that curiosity perfectly. Thankyou.


So regardless of renting from the council or not, you will definitely need to be insured against liability. I know this as I had a house where people (to 2 other properties) needed to walk across a 1 Square metre corner at the end of my garden path and was advised strongly to insure against liability. It was perfectly level! In this day and age someone may see an opportunity. Not harassing you by the way, just being helpful. Forewarned is forearmed.

I agree. And I didn't have liability insurance. You can't get anywhere near the house without being recorded on twin 4k PTZ CCTV cameras though. It would be really easy to identify people who filled a claim. I'm just sadistic enough to find them, follow them and record rhem acting normally. Then present this evidence to a court.

The only reason I put it down was for the little old lady next door who sometimes goes out shopping in a wheelchair on the 'dial a bus' taxi service thing.

 

[johnb80]

Because it's coiled, the resistive heating accumulates (traps heat within the coils) so the higher the load, the higher the heating effect, the greater the compound heating of a coiled cable.

Which is exactly what I said!

 

[Deleted member 9692]

I agree. And I didn't have liability insurance. You can't get anywhere near the house without being recorded on twin 4k PTZ CCTV cameras though. It would be really easy to identify people who filled a claim. I'm just sadistic enough to find them, follow them and record rhem acting normally. Then present this evidence to a court.

The only reason I put it down was for the little old lady next door who sometimes goes out shopping in a wheelchair on the 'dial a bus' taxi service thing.

How do you know that any accident claim against you will be fraudulent?

 

[siteguru]

Which is exactly what I said!

Which is why I tagged your post with a green Agree tick, and simply provided an expanded explanation for the benefit of others (i.e. not exactly what you said - more than what you said).

 

[Mitch AC DC]

Seen at my local charging point. Of course they may well be not charging just using the parking place.

"Ignorance is bliss". Or like you guessed just sneakily parking

 

[tsedge]

Which is exactly what I said!

Some things are worth saying more than once.

 

[Torryhun]

"Ignorance is bliss". Or like you guessed just sneakily parking

No, ignorance is just ignorance!!

 

[Rolfe]

This is really a good example of the argument against granny chargers. Yes, competent people can use them safely but the average person won't be competent, won't know anything about them, will use extension leads (as has been found in surveys), won't limit the current and will not uncoil the cable etc.... so taking that into account, they should probably be banned or restricted in some way.

If it makes anyone feel better, I had the electrician out yesterday on an unrelated issue (a fused light circuit due to a short in a light fitment in the conservatory), and I asked him about my granny charger. He said it was as safe as anything else, that several safety features would have to fail simultaneously for anything to go wrong, and there was absolutely nothing to worry about and no reason not to carry on as I'm doing.

This is extremely convenient for me, and I reiterate my call for education of EV owners, rather than banning things outright just because someone did something unwise because there was no warning in the cable box not to do that.

 

[tsedge]

If it makes anyone feel better, I had the electrician out yesterday on an unrelated issue (a fused light circuit due to a short in a light fitment in the conservatory), and I asked him about my granny chargre. He said it was as safe as anything else, that several safety features would have to fail simultaneously for anything to go wrong, and there was absolutely nothing to worry about and no reason not to carry on as I'm doing.

This is extremely convenient for me, and I reiterate my call for education of EV owners, rather than banning things outright just because someone did something unwise because there was no warning in the cable box not to do that.

I still disagree but we will leave it there.

 

[Rolfe]

It wasn't even a granny charger in the OP. It was a type 2 cable. I simply can't understand your zeal to ban something that can be used perfectly safely, that fully satisfies many people's charging requirements, and which has not been linked to any outbreak of house fires across the country.

 

[Martinonline]

I support @Rolfe in that granny chargers are not inherently bad and that is the same for all technology be it extension leads, gas appliances, cars ... . It is a well-known that Users ruin everything because they do not read the instruction manual. Probably there are examples within this Forum but that is not sufficient to damn the technology.

 

[tsedge]

I am comfortable with people disagreeing with me. I have explained why I think what I think already. I don't have more to add.

 

[MoDolph]

I can see both sides of this. On the one hand I don't think they should be banned, but on the other side, there are a lot of really stupid people about, and they are going to at some point get an EV.

Eventually somebody is going to burn down their house which is ultimately their problem. However, what about if it spreads to the neighbours house?

I'd like to see granny charging default to 6A with the possibility to increase the speed manually instead of it being the other way around as it is currently.

 

[Rolfe]

I think a starting position of including a clearly-written how-to and how-not-to guide with the actual cables should be tried. There was nothing at all inside the box mine came in, and some small-print caveats buried deep inside the car's manual really isn't good enough.

I have a number of appliances one might consider hazardous, including a small domestic snow-clearing machine with a petrol engine. Everything has come with its own safety instructions, clearly flagged up with warning triangles and "read this", inside the box it came in. Not to include something similar with granny chargers and even type 2 cables is inexcusable. Banning everything some idiot might convert into a new and creative way to die is neither practical nor desirable.

 

[Ian Key]

Banning everything some idiot might convert into a new and creative way to die is neither practical nor desirable.

There is a website devoted to such "people" who are given the Darwin Award for chlorinating the human gene pool by removing their own from it with a great idea which goes very wrong.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, I know. See also an Australian video (actually produced to promote railway safety) called "So many dumb ways to die". Which, interestingly enough, seems itself to be based on a similar safety film that can be seen in the Coventry Transport Museum.