Octopus Go Intelligent new 6 hours charging limit

[Kenp1]

I was watching what was going on overnight when I was sick and couldn't sleep. The slots were in constant flux. I did a running commentary on twitter and the Octopus bot stepped in asking me to DM. I did, but got no reply.

This was the eventual charging pattern.

Yes, that's how it is every time, the schedule it shows at the start isn't what you get.

 

[EVsince2016]

It used to pretty much give fixed night slots, minus the old popular 00:30-01:30 slot.

It has changed over time, probably the most about a year ago.

 

[GaryMG4]

The schedule is based on wholesale price, demand and what you have asked for, so it is different every night, not sure what you mean by latest changes, there hasn't been any changes.

Maybe they are fine tuning their algorithm, until the last couple of months the slots tended to be longer with positive breaks, lately the schedules have instances like 01:00-01:26, 01:26-02:35,03:00-03:15 etc. Sometimes even if the schedule shows a 3 continuous slot when you look at the logs afterwards it is similar to @Rolfe has shown with some of the breaks being down to zero then restarting straight away. I think this is what the MG4 detects as a possible failing charger, and number of 'fails' then it aborts the charge.

 

[Kenp1]

I've been on the tariff for 8 months and it has always been like this, get lots of slots right next to each other, and some very short ones, if you keep checking the app you can see them changing. The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes I think it confuses itself, as I will ask for 20% charge and actually get more than this, maybe 25%, other times it is exactly what I ask for.

 

[GaryMG4]

I've been on the tariff for 8 months and it has always been like this, get lots of slots right next to each other, and some very short ones, if you keep checking the app you can see them changing. The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes I think it confuses itself, as I will ask for 20% charge and actually get more than this, maybe 25%, other times it is exactly what I ask for.

Maybe it is location dependant, in an effort to balance the grid. I have noticed that Cambridge area will get some different 'offers' to mine even though it is not that far away. What I have noticed that since the greener nights initiative the %age added has been variable 50% requested 45-55 added and for the first time a smart charge failed at 2am having added 5kWh when 32 had been requested with the car aborting the charge after 4 very short charging slots. The only other time I had seen this failure was with solar when I had left the ECO+ setting at 100% on a day with a fair amount of cloud.

 

[EVsince2016]

Just watched the boss speech.

Hope all gets sorted

 

[MarkGSmith1982]

I agree but I assume it is 6 hrs per day. So if it charges from 09 00 to 15 00 you don't get the low price from 23 30 to 05 30

I would say the opposite.. "if they schedule it to charge in the peak times" then you would get the standard 6hrs off peak.. although if they decide to schedule it in the off peak times you would only get 6hrs at a cheap rate every 24hrs.. and as they are in charge of shedules...

 

[salty]

I was watching what was going on overnight when I was sick and couldn't sleep. The slots were in constant flux. I did a running commentary on twitter and the Octopus bot stepped in asking me to DM. I did, but got no reply.

This was the eventual charging pattern.

View attachment 41836

S'pose it's better than some of the crap on the Telly.

 

[johnb80]

Honestly, I'm just going to set the occasional Smart charging session for say 50% starting at 11.30 and ending at 5.30 to keep on board with the requirement to use it sometimes, and charge on the Zappi schedule the rest of the time.

I think they're going to find that a lot of people are going to be doing that, and that they're not going to get many takers for any surplus they have outwith that period.

I'm not sure if you can schedule charging within your MG4, I can on my i3. If you set the schedule 23:30 to 05:30 and leave the Zappi configured linked to IOG with Smart Charging enabled, you can plug in anytime, the Zappi will only respond when the car wants to charge at its scheduled time. The IOG charging slots will be sent out to yourZappi and the car charged accordingly. You meet the requirements of IOG because smart charging is enabled, your house batteries will be on charge so not emptied into the car etc.

 

[GaryMG4]

That might be interesting to try. When on Go I set the Tapo to switch on at 00:25 and the car to start at 00:30, finish at 05:30 and the Tapo to switch off at 05:35, primarily to record the amount used. At present I plan to charge the Niro on smart charge and MG4 on Zappi timed.

 

[Sparky2]

This the latest message I received from Octopus in response to messages on my phone saying "unable to control your device" :-

Please reconnect your device and remove all charging schedules and battery limits set within the vehicle infotainment system, vehicle app or charger app.

I can see that these are currently enabled either in your vehicle infotainment system, vehicle app or charger app, and as a result we are unable to properly control smart charges.

A Smart Charge will map a charge when the grid is under less strain. Most of the time this is between the set off-peak times, but this isn’t always the case. We will apply the off-peak rate to all the times we schedule your charge, regardless of when this is. This is on the condition that customers have no schedules or limiters set on the EV or charger.

Smart charges will not necessarily initiate immediately during the 11:30–05:30 off-peak window, as sometimes it can be more cost-effective to start early or delay charging until later in the night.

It’s common for a Smart Charge to start and stop multiple times throughout the night, as the charges are designed to get the most power at the most cost-effective times prior to your “ready by” time.

Our system uses constantly updated data to ensure we charge your EV to your desired SoC by the time you set. Having a Smart Charge mapped outside the off-peak times also means your entire household will receive cheaper rates during those periods.

From the information you’ve shared, cross-referenced with our data logs, there are a few settings within your vehicle’s infotainment system, app or charger app that appear to be interrupting our ability to control charging properly:

• Battery Care Mode: This needs to be disabled — it interferes with communication between the car and Octopus, and can cause the vehicle to reject our charging requests.
• Charging Limit: The vehicle appears to be set to charge to 80%, likely due to the above setting. Please change this to 100% within the vehicle and in all apps except the Octopus app.

Essentially, what’s happening is that your vehicle’s internal battery-management settings are overriding the instructions we send. Octopus can only request that the vehicle follows a plan — but in this case, the vehicle is effectively saying it already has one, so it’s rejecting ours.

Additionally, when you set your charge level in the Octopus app, it always assumes it can charge up to 100% of your battery’s total capacity. For example:

• If both your vehicle and the Octopus app are set to 80%, the actual usable charge drops to around 64% of your battery’s total capacity.
• If your vehicle, charger, and the Octopus app all have limits set to 80%, that total drops even further — to roughly 51.2% of your battery’s capacity.

This is a common factor behind the errors we’re seeing with your vehicle. The app sends a request as if it’s charging to 80%, but the vehicle perceives this as an excessive power request and cuts charging short (or stops entirely) to “protect” the battery.

Additional point of note, the Zappi integration relies on what we call relative charging. Under your charging preferences, where it says "charge to add," this specifies the amount of charge to be added on top of your current battery level.

Because of this, if the number entered results in the charger trying to add more than 100% of the battery’s capacity, it causes these errors. To avoid this, you need to set the amount to fill the empty portion of the battery. For example, if you plug in when your battery is at 25%, you’d set it to add 75% to achieve a full charge.

Typically, EV owners set their maximum state of charge to around 80% to help reduce battery degradation. So with this in mind, if you plug in at 25%, you’d set it to add 55% to reach 80%.

For Intelligent Go to function as designed, we need an uninterrupted charge or “blank page,” and the 80% battery-charge limit, as well as any charging schedules, must be set solely within the Octopus app.

Please try following the above guidance and let me know if you’re still receiving these errors afterwards.

Best wishes,
Oliver K
Smart Tariff Specialist "Pro"

I am not sure if this explanation adds anything which reduces the confusion. The big problem here is the number of different bits of digital kit (plus the EV) in my garage that all want to be in control

I have an MG4 which tells me not to charge beyond 80% to protect the battery and an energy supplier telling me to set it at 100%. That same energy supplier told me that my cheap rate for electricity would be 11.30pm to 05.30am but I now find that is not necessarily true

How are us non-geeks supposed to understand all this? Where is this advice to be found on the Octopus website or on the app? I have a garage full of digital equipment (solar PV inverter, batteries and EV charger) all from different manufacturers plus a flaky Internet connection

Throw in regular power outages during storms plus equipment software updates and you have a perfect digital storm which leads to an inconsistent service. The IOG system is designed to run without any of these interruptions so the result is a very frustrated customer

Rather like our experiences in trying find and connect to a public EV charger, trying to charge our EV at home overnight has become something of a lottery. Sometimes we get a full charge, sometimes a partial charge and sometimes no charge at all (requiring a bump charge)

Charging at a public charging point is challenging enough but I thought home charging would be simpler. How wrong I was. It seems that using IOG to charge every night, you need to check the amount of charge left in the car when you park up for the night, subtract that percentage from 80% and set the Octopus app to add that amount of charge. What a right blinking faff

We often get power outages for a few seconds during storm conditions and they cause havoc with all digital equipment. I regularly spend hours afterwards switching bits of equipment off and on trying to get them all to talk to the wi-fi router and to one another again

I have set the EV charge target in the car to 100% as Octopus recommend but I am not going to attempt to fiddle with the Zappi control panel or the myenergi app for the batteries. I am considering going back to the old (non-intelligent) Octopus Go regime

The owner of Sparky 2 is an old Analogue Man in a digital world

As Kermit once memorably said, "its not easy being green"

 

[LenEV2016]

I tend to ignore all the messages I get about the charger being offline or the car unable to connect.
I'm just resigned to the fact it's caused by octopus chopping and changing the slots and so many small slots.

Despite all the messages my car seems to charge to where I want it to

 

[GaryMG4]

This the latest message I received from Octopus in response to messages on my phone saying "unable to control your device" :-


Typically, EV owners set their maximum state of charge to around 80% to help reduce battery degradation. So with this in mind, if you plug in at 25%, you’d set it to add 55% to reach 80%.

Interesting explanation but I'm not convinced. I tried exactly that scenario last week and it sailed on past 80% and stopped at 85% at 5:30. Whereas the previous attempt of setting the add %age to enough to reach 80% it stopped at 76%. I'm pretty sure this didn't happen until they changed how the slots are allocated. I have to admit for most of the 9 months I've been on IOG I left the default 'add 80% by 8am' as the setting with the car set to 80% and it worked faultlessly. I also tried to add 99% to the Niro from 4% and it stopped at 97% having consumed 65.78 kWh.

 

[Kenp1]

I've been on this for nearly 9 months and it's never been exact, but this makes sense as it doesn't know the cars state of charge so it has to estimate how much to add. I leave the car at 100%, and in the end it doesn't matter if it is a couple of percent either way, it isn't going to cause any issues.

 

[GaryMG4]

I've been on this for nearly 9 months and it's never been exact, but this makes sense as it doesn't know the cars state of charge so it has to estimate how much to add. I leave the car at 100%, and in the end it doesn't matter if it is a couple of percent either way, it isn't going to cause any issues.

True, it's only that if the car is set to 80% and it stops there it will do a balance charge.

 

[Kenp1]

I'm pretty sure you have to go 100% to get a balance charge, don't think it happens at 80%.

 

[GaryMG4]

I'm pretty sure you have to go 100% to get a balance charge, don't think it happens at 80%.

It has been discussed a lot but I found when I used a power monitor with the 3 pin EVSE you could see the current slowly ramp down after it reached 80%. This could take 20 minutes much longer after a long break of doing any, before the car declared charge complete. This is the same behaviour as selecting balance charge when charging r/c lipo flight batteries with the balance lead in place.

 

[LenEV2016]

I'm pretty sure you have to go 100% to get a balance charge, don't think it happens at 80%.

NMC batteries can balance at set % below 100%

 

[Kenp1]

I found the thread, seems everyone has their own opinion on what is happening and what to do. I don't worry about it, just charge it fully every so often.

 

[EVsince2016]

I just adapt / adjust for my EVs having different temperaments & battery sizes.

All timers / controls are off, except when I switch off smart charge then Zappis gets a night timer option turned on for the hours I need each night.