Octopus Go Intelligent new 6 hours charging limit

[EVsince2016]

You could set hours during which you would be guaranteed not to get slots from Octopus, so you wouldn't need to manually switch it off. (This was suggestion #5).

Edit: In case I didn't make this clear enough, it would work as follows:

You'd be able to set multiple hour ranges up in the IOG app that would restrict the hours you'd be offered charging slots.

If you have solar, and your main production is (say) 8am-6pm, you could set IOG to never give you a charging slot during that time. Or whatever you need not to interfere with your solar configuration.

If you have a home battery, which you charge at night on the low rate between 11.30pm-1.30am (for example), you could set IOG to only give you charging slots between 1.30am and (say) 7.30am. Then you set your battery not to discharge during those hours.

It just doesn't work like that!

 

[tsedge]

It just doesn't work like that!

I'm suggesting that it should.

What's your solution then?

 

[EVsince2016]

If you have solar, sometimes you use 100% of spare solar to charge, sometimes you use that solar elsewhere, say on hot water, sometimes you blend grid & solar, sometimes you use IO grid & solar all in one day. It all depends on your needs.

I don't yet have a home battery but do have 2 EVs and Solar thermal too on top of solar PV.

I do not see an easy solution, not even to replacing my endless manual interventions.

Maybe some AI solution will come along, plug & play.

 

[tsedge]

If you have solar, sometimes you use 100% of spare solar to charge, sometimes you use that solar elsewhere, say on hot water, sometimes you blend grid & solar, sometimes you use IO grid & solar all in one day. It all depends on your needs.

I don't yet have a home battery but do have 2 EVs and Solar thermal too on top of solar PV.

I do not see an easy solution, not even to replacing my endless manual interventions.

Maybe some AI solution will come along, plug & play.

Fair enough - I did say my ideas weren't perfect.

As a simple way to avoid constantly manually juggling, I think my suggestion would work well for a lot of people who are time-poor, just want a predictable solution and don't care if it is less than perfect.

I think you are asking for something where:

• Everything is fully interconnected and understands each other.
• You can set an overarching policy.
• It is clever enough to understand your shifting needs and adapt.

Yes, that probably does require AI.

 

[Rolfe]

Careful what you say here, you know the Octopus Grass's are around!!!!

There are some people on here with house batteries that have an issue with this, when Octopus sets a schedule during the peak times it can drain the house batteries then leaving the house with peak rate for the rest of the day.

I don't think I'm breaking their T&Cs. I do a Smart charge every so often. I ask for it to be done by 5.30 am, that's all. I'd be happy to let them Smart charge the car at other times if they would notify me in advance so I could set the inverter to protect the house battery at these times, but they won't do that. The set-up as it is suits me pretty well though.

 

[Rolfe]

It's the scheduling by them that is the whole point of IOG and the reason they call it 'intelligent'. They can schedule it when energy is cheap for them, thus allowing your car to get charged outside the normal 6hr cheap time and still only get charged at the cheap rate. If you don't want that, and only want to schedule the charging yourself then don't get IOG, just get the Octopus Go tariff instead. Easy

You misunderstand me. I'm moaning about the app telling you that a schedule has been created and listing a bunch of times when the whole thing is completely in flux. What's the damn point? Just acknowledge the request and say the charge will be done by the time requested. There is literally zero benefit to anyone to keep listing charging times on the app which change five minutes later anyway. You go to sleep with one set of times on the app and wake up to find that these bear no relation to the times the car actually charged. It's just silly.

 

[Everest]

I do not see an easy solution, not even to replacing my endless manual interventions.

Maybe some AI solution will come along, plug & play.

IMHO you need more than an AI layer, it will need hardware comms links too.

A hybrid inverter will have its own power meter or CT to control export power, so when it runs on battery it doesn't export. But then you add an EVSE which claims to be solar compatible. It comes with another custom CT or power meter that measures excess solar power so the EVSE can use it. But there is currently no standard protocol for the inverter to communicate with the EVSE - you have to set the inverter to export and the EVSE to use excess exported power.

Then you want to divert excess power to your immersion heater or other devices. So your iBoost (or whatever) comes with its own custom CT or power meter which is obviously incompatible with the others so now you have 3 of them. Then when there's excess power exported, both EVSE and that new device will want to grab it at the same time, which opens a whole new can of worms.

Or you want to reduce the charge of your home battery charging rate because you want to have a shower at midday and need the water heated.

Unless all devices are from the same brand / ecosystem, they won't communicate with each other.

So you then need to DIY with a custom implementation to coordinate everything. That will need physical hardware for RS485 interfaces or whatever comms your devices use, then some custom programming or application such as HA to tie everything together. Not an issue for some of us with electronics or software engineering backgrounds, but beyond most casual, even IT literate, users

 

[Rolfe]

An awful lot of people just plug their car in and leave the delta percentage alone. It isn't at all obvious you have to set it every time.

If you should set it every time, why doesn't it prompt you before scheduling your charge? It is a bad UI Octopus have done nothing to change for years.

Octopus can easily stop people using like this if they want to, they've done nothing so clearly that way of usage is fine and it isn't contrary to the Ts&Cs.

If I'm paying for something, of course I want it to work the way I want it to work. I don't work for Octopus.

Again, it is a very common situation, so should be accounted for in the product.

This. I do understand that you have to set the % charge every time, but every time I switch on Smart charging the damn thing has already created a "schedule" based on the previous % that's already in the app and remembered, before I get the chance to change it. This is silly too.

In a way I don't blame people who simply left the app set at 100% all the time, because it's not obvious what's in it for you to keep having to change it. The car isn't going to go on charging after it's got to 100%, anyway. So to design the app in such a way that there's a positive incentive just to leave it at 100% and then get all huffy when people do that is not good customer relations.

 

[tsedge]

IMHO you need more than an AI layer, it will need hardware comms links too.

Yes, absolutely this means waiting for standardised protocols and reliable implementations.

So you then need to DIY with a custom implementation to coordinate everything. That will need physical hardware for RS485 interfaces or whatever comms your devices use, then some custom programming or application such as HA to tie everything together. Not an issue for some of us with electronics or software engineering backgrounds, but beyond most casual, even IT literate, users

I guess this is also the point that I'm trying to make. Originally, users of solar and batteries were mainly enthusiasts, with the time to play around with their setups and adjust them - and who want to maximise the use of every Wh.

But now, with solar/batteries going in new homes, we're at the mass consumer stage. Those people just want simple solutions that are set-and-forget and do good job most of the time.

 

[Everest]

this means waiting for standardised protocols and reliable implementations

 

[Rolfe]

They exhort people to keep Smart charging on all the time, but so far as I know there's nothing in the T&Cs to say that you must do that. Just that you must do a Smart charge once a month. (That's not going to happen in January, as I'm away for four weeks on holiday. The car will be sitting in the garage unplugged, at around 60-70% charge, and it can turn into a block of ice for all I care. I'll thaw it out when I get home.)

Banning customers from setting a charge through their Zappi's schedule, ever, would be a very big change and would not go down well I suspect.

I think my installer may have twigged about the wiring thing, finally, because he has bought a Polestar. (He didn't have an EV of his own when he did my installation. I did try to tell him what John was saying about wiring to prevent the charger draining the home battery, but since neither of us really understood the issue it's not surprising that didn't happen.) When he was round adding the EPS feature I mentioned this to him, and he seemed to understand now, but he just said, it's better just to use the Zappi schedule anyway, which I agreed with. (He fell out with Octopus about the time he was installing my system and I don't know if he ever went back, so he may still not have first-hand experience of this.)

Sometimes it suits me to use the Smart charging. It's an easy way to stop charging under 80% when the MG app doesn't let you set a charge limit for the SR. If you're not sure you're going to need the car for several days it's still better to leave it around or under 80% even with an LFP. But often the Smart charge is just too much of a hassle. They need to make it simpler.

I do hope they don't ban people from setting the charge manually some (most?) of the time.

 

[Everest]

That's not going to happen in January, as I'm away for four weeks on holiday

Personally I'd be cautious about putting that info on a public forum... but maybe I'm just paranoid

(or maybe you're really away in February and will be sat at home with some weapons of mass-destruction for anyone who might be tempted to burgle?)

 

[EVsince2016]

I have a myenergi setup for solar, EV charging & hot water, but of course that doesn't speak to my EVs, solar thermal or pellet stove and doesn't know what the weather forecast is. It also can't link to Hive for my heating or my weather station or know my HWT temperatures. Just a link to mt 3 sensors on solar thermal and the tank was quoted as a 4 figure number, parts only.

Imagine a linked AI system able to do that and game the system / electric prices on Agile.

Octopus IO is for their benefit, for their profit & gain that in turn benefits its customers a bit too with some good deals.

 

[Everest]

I have a myenergi setup for solar, EV charging & hot water, but of course that doesn't speak to my EVs, solar thermal or pellet stove and doesn't know what the weather forecast is. It also can't link to Hive for my heating or my weather station or know my HWT temperatures.

Exactly the issue... which is why I built my own control systems.

Just a link to mt 3 sensors on solar thermal and the tank was quoted as a 4 figure number, parts only.

No way! A commonly used digital DS18B20 temp probe costs less than £5. Someone is taking the Michael there

Imagine a linked AI system able to do that and game the system / electric prices on Agile.

But you don't need AI for the above level of control. All of that could be achieved if you have programmable devices, some temp sensors, a subscription to forecast-solar or similar and links to the Agile API.

And, to be honest, you wouldn't really be 'gaming' the system - you'd be doing the right thing by using electricity when it is cheapest - which, in turn, when it is plentiful supply.

 

[tsedge]

Personally I'd be cautious about putting that info on a public forum... but maybe I'm just paranoid

(or maybe you're really away in February and will be sat at home with some weapons of mass-destruction for anyone who might be tempted to burgle?)

Don't worry about it. At the moment nothing happens for 90 days at which point you will get an email message giving you a warning that you will be transferred to Octopus Go if you don't use it at least once in the next 14 days.

 

[Everest]

Don't worry about it. At the moment nothing happens for 90 days...

I wasn't concerned about . I was concerned about Rolfe's household contents!

 

[tsedge]

I wasn't concerned about . I was concerned about Rolfe's household contents!

Oh, now I get it.

 

[salty]

Personally I'd be cautious about putting that info on a public forum... but maybe I'm just paranoid

I'd totally agree. If that was put Fakebook or some other total shite, like that. But would like to think, you pretty safe on here.