Pay per mile. Another blow for EV drivers

[Rolfe]

Thanks. Yes we seem to agree on more than I thought we did. I did try to make it clear that I was criticising specific aspects only but I probably could have and should have been clearer.

I think after 30 COP meetings with everything going in the opposite direction to that intended, the parties need to stop doing them and try a completely different approach: like perhaps focusing in mitigation and adaptation rather than prevention.

After all, the climate is always going to change anyway, we know ice ages are a thing too and even if our activities are accelerating change significantly, shouldn't we get better at coping with changes?

Without some very significant changes we're looking at the collapse of civilisation, the extinction of most of the planet's flora and fauna, and human beings reduced to subsistence living in small pockets of remaining habitat. Getting better at coping is not going to fix that.

 

[tsedge]

Without some very significant changes we're looking at the collapse of civilisation, the extinction of most of the planet's flora and fauna, and human beings reduced to subsistence living in small pockets of remaining habitat.

That is complete and utter nonsense, and not remotely supported by any science.

 

[EVsince2016]

That is complete and utter nonsense, and not remotely supported by any science.

That does depend very much on how many tipping points are triggered.

Climate change (as in weakened Atlantic currents) has just triggered an unprecedented polar vortex collapse & extreme SSW (sudden stratospheric warming) event, on 26/11/2025 to be precise.

North America will experience the consequences of the cold over the next 2 weeks and elsewhere extreme storms. The UK is looking to receive this late December / early January depending how this unprecedented / unforecastable event plays out.

Enjoy!

 

[tsedge]

Weather isn't climate. Extreme weather has always existed and isn't new. People have made all sorts of "tipping point claims", e.g. about Coral Reefs, sea levels and many more that turned out to be untrue.

The "tipping point" I have noticed is the current obsession that every piece of bad weather is proof we are all doomed.

 

[LenEV2016]

Weather isn't climate. Extreme weather has always existed and isn't new. People have made all sorts of "tipping point claims", e.g. about Coral Reefs, sea levels and many more that turned out to be untrue.

The "tipping point" I have noticed is the current obsession that every piece of bad weather is proof we are all doomed.

We had a massive drought in the summer in the late 70's and various massive constant dumpings of snow for prolonged periods over the years.

All these named wet and windy storms used to be affectionately known as winter in Scotland.

 

[slmorgan42]

My two pence on this isn’t really about the need to recover lost revenue from petrol sales, but more about how it’s being approached.

I’m a low-mileage driver, roughly 6–7k a year, and a few things stand out for me:

Travel abroad
I visit family in France several times a year and, while I haven’t kept a precise record, I’d estimate around 30% of my annual mileage is done outside the UK. Under the current proposals, this would still be counted as UK road usage, which doesn’t feel right.

No home charger tax
I live in a London flat and rely entirely on public charging. I’m perfectly happy with that setup and still think it’s absolutely workable to own an EV without home charging.
The issue is that discussions always focus on cheap home electricity and low tax. In reality, those of us without home chargers already pay more because public charging rates are higher than domestic electricity. If a pay-per-mile system is brought in as well, it feels like we’ll be hit twice.

Possible approach
I don’t know what the perfect answer is, but a flat rate similar to standard road tax seems more manageable and fairer across different living situations.

Some rough figures for context
Just to give an idea of how many people might be in a similar position to me:

• DfT data suggests around 10% of UK EV drivers don’t have access to home charging.
• Other sources put it closer to 20%.
• In London, the picture is very different. Roughly 70% of households don’t have off-street parking, so the proportion of EV owners without home charging is much higher.

EV numbers in the UK vs London

• There are around 1.6 million EVs registered in the UK.
• In London, there are about 236,000 EVs registered.
• So London accounts for roughly 14–15% of all EVs in the UK.

These aren’t perfect numbers, but they show that a sizeable chunk of drivers are already paying more to run their EVs and could end up disproportionately affected if pay-per-mile is added on top.

 

[tsedge]

Back on topic, how dare you!

I agree with your points on unfairness.

Although surveys do suggest that 85% of people with EVs in the UK have access to off street charging, so I am not sure about some of your numbers.

But can you think of a cheap and practical way to exclude foreign mileage? If so, I'd submit it to the consultation with your justification.

 

[slmorgan42]

Back on topic, how dare you!

I agree with your points on unfairness.

Although surveys do suggest that 85% of people with EVs in the UK have access to off street charging, so I am not sure about some of your numbers.

But can you think of a cheap and practical way to exclude foreign mileage? If so, I'd submit it to the consultation with your justification.

Yeah, sorry for bringing this back on track and ruining people’s fun. I’ve been meaning to respond for ages but hadn’t found the time to actually put pen to paper.

I probably threw too many figures out there earlier, but I’m loosely making the same point in reverse: UK-wide, roughly 80% of EV owners can charge at home, but in London it’s closer to 30% because so many households don’t have off-street parking.

For me, there are two separate issues that need addressing.

1. Tax on public charging
Public charging is taxed at a business rate, which is higher than domestic electricity. Historically, this made sense because companies used electricity to manufacture goods. But with EV charging, the electricity is the end product. It’s very easy for a charging operator to separate the electricity sold to EV drivers from anything else, so there’s no reason this should be taxed at the higher business rate. Reducing this would help level the gap between home charging and public charging.

2. Replacing lost petrol revenue
This is the more difficult challenge. I still feel that some sort of flat rate for EV owners is the fairest approach, whether that means adjusting the existing road tax system or adding a separate EV charge. A flat rate is easier to understand and easier to manage, and this is from a low-mileage user.

Sadly, I do sympathise with the government here because there isn’t a simple solution, but the current approach risks hitting certain groups much harder than others.

 

[Everest]

For me, there are two separate issues that need addressing.

Don't forget "Travel abroad". That's my biggest annoyance with the proposed system

 

[slmorgan42]

Don't forget "Travel abroad". That's my biggest annoyance with the proposed system

That's why I think it shouldn't be by the miles but some sort of flat rate.

 

[Everest]

The issue with the flat rate is that it hits those only doing say 1000 miles a year disproportionately if they are going to rake in the same amount as before

 

[salty]

Don't forget "Travel abroad". That's my biggest annoyance with the proposed system

Agree with that. Even though it will never affect me personally. How the Hell can you be charged PPP and your not even in this bloody country.

 

[slmorgan42]

The issue with the flat rate is that it hits those only doing say 1000 miles a year disproportionately if they are going to rake in the same amount as before

I agree but what ever method is used will not please everyone. As I say I am lowish mileage driver but I would still rather a flat than faffing around with mileage tracking. Will make it expensive for the gov to manage too. Next thing will be garages charging us to bring cars in to be "officially" meter read. It all just gets complicated.

 

[Everest]

How the Hell can you be charged PPP and your not even in this bloody country.

Or @Bricktop X PWR doing laps of his private rally stage!

Post in thread 'How do you treat your MG4?'

Jan 27, 2025

Well, I wanted to sort out a track day, but decided on some light green laning around my house instead!!

• Bricktop X PWR

• 
• 
• 

 

[tsedge]

1. Tax on public charging
Public charging is taxed at a business rate, which is higher than domestic electricity. Historically, this made sense because companies used electricity to manufacture goods. But with EV charging, the electricity is the end product. It’s very easy for a charging operator to separate the electricity sold to EV drivers from anything else, so there’s no reason this should be taxed at the higher business rate. Reducing this would help level the gap between home charging and public charging.

My three point plan on this is:

1. Cap the cost of electricity supply for public charging and make it usage, not supply based: currently this is at uncapped commercial rates and sites often pay high capacity-based fees regardless of usage.

2. Zero-rate public charging for VAT purposes. Not 5%, eliminate it completely.

3. Create a large tax writeoff against capital costs for the construction of new capacity: new sites and expansions, reducing the costs.

2. Replacing lost petrol revenue
This is the more difficult challenge. I still feel that some sort of flat rate for EV owners is the fairest approach, whether that means adjusting the existing road tax system or adding a separate EV charge. A flat rate is easier to understand and easier to manage, and this is from a low-mileage user.

Sadly, I do sympathise with the government here because there isn’t a simple solution, but the current approach risks hitting certain groups much harder than others.

I've advocated that VED bands and rates are re-evaluated for older vehicles such that EVs are half the cost of ICE (with Hybrids in the middle) which would replace some of the lost fuel duty.

Also, they could go further and abolish VED in favour of PPM for everyone, again with EVs around half the cost of ICE. Perhaps with a phased withdrawal of fuel duty?

I prefer the introduction of motorway tolls using ANPR to replace the lost revenue.

 

[slmorgan42]

Or @Bricktop X PWR doing laps of his private rally stage!

Post in thread 'How do you treat your MG4?'

Jan 27, 2025

Well, I wanted to sort out a track day, but decided on some light green laning around my house instead!!

• Bricktop X PWR

• 
• 
• 

That's going to cost you in mileage lol

 

[T1 Terry]

I wonder if they have thought about the black market developing plug in software that blocks milage counting at the source, so it doesn't get recorded on the computer or the odometer ..... or just reduces it ..... They didn't see the "dieselgate" fraud until someone pointed it out to them, would they recognise a reduction in recorded milage?

T1 Terry

 

[Everest]

I wonder if they have thought about the black market developing plug in software that blocks milage counting at the source, so it doesn't get recorded on the computer or the odometer ..... or just reduces it ..... They didn't see the "dieselgate" fraud until someone pointed it out to them, would they recognise a reduction in recorded milage?

That was discussed in the government consultation document

 

[T1 Terry]

That was discussed in the government consultation document

What was decided?

 

[Everest]

What was decided?

Nothing is decided, it's published and open to feedback.