Pay per mile. Another blow for EV drivers

[LenEV2016]

Lower running costs
And
Fancied an ev

 

[Rolfe]

And as an EV driver, do you now notice the smell of petrol/diesel cars, they bloody stink. I suppose it's like when you quit smoking, you notice the smell much more.

This.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

Just fancied an EV and not spewing out health harming tailpipe pollution ie the stuff other than C02. Wasn't really based on cost. On my first EV a ZSEV over a 3 year PCP, 72 plate, the cost of ownership : deposit, monthlys, insurance, servicing and charging ( mainly home) was more than an ICE ZS would have been. On my second EV, a 75 plate S5EV, it will be less than ICE ZS or HS ( closest match ) due to the drop in purchase price.

 

[Gomev]

Wonder what actual reason folk, bought an EV..... Was it.
Help save the Planet.
Lower running costs.
Or just fancied an EV.
Another reason?
Or all of the above.
...
I will say, though I will never go back to an ICE.

But would fancying an EV and saving the planet even enter the argument if it was posed as:

Fancy an EV and help to save the planet? Yep, but it's gonna cost ya ! More expensive to buy, more expensive to run and it will only get worse.

 

[tsedge]

But would fancying an EV and saving the planet even entered the argument if it was posed as:

Fancy an EV and help to save the planet? Yep, but it's gonna cost ya ! More expensive to buy, more expensive to run and it will only get worse.

Good point.

I think we have to separate out up-front and running costs. People seem prepared to spend up front more for an EV if they will get lower running costs (usually depreciation is ignored).

It is the same reason why PCP with large deposits are popular: the monthly payments are low even if the overall cost is little changed. Psychologically it feels like a lower risk.

So, I am saying the bigger issue is likely higher running costs.

 

[john1000uk]

Well, if the Government go ahead with the pay by mile tax verified by mileage at mot I'm going to forecast that all EVs will be required to have an mot yearly from new.

 

[Everest]

I'm going to forecast that all EVs will be required to have an mot yearly from new.

Hmmm... did you read the consultation document? And discussions in this thread

(covered in sections 4.28 to 4.31)

 

[BarrieG]

Mileage blockers: the illegal but available devices that threaten the pay-per-mile EV tax | Autocar

Hard-to-detect tech is used illegally on UK roads – prompting fears about its use with incoming eVED

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Gomev]

Mileage blockers: the illegal but available devices that threaten the pay-per-mile EV tax | Autocar

Hard-to-detect tech is used illegally on UK roads – prompting fears about its use with incoming eVED

www.autocar.co.uk

Currently approx £300 for my car, so money back after 10,000 miles at 3p/mile. I reckon you wouldn't block everything in the first year, so maybe payback after 3 years, if you keep the car that long.

 

[Tangoed Man]

So say 16.000 miles a year.
Current fuel duty on fossil fuel is 52.95p/litre plus VAT, total 63.54p/litre or £2.88/gallon. (at 4.54 litres in a gallon)
16,000 miles at 50mpg (let's be generous) is 320 gallons
320 gallons fuel duty is £921.

EV - £500 ICE - £921.

Not as bad as ICE but still hurts.

Or more like £750 for a diesel E-Class Mercedes. Problem with all this is that it won’t stay at 3p/mile for very long and will increase inversely proportional to the reduction in fuel duty as people move over to EV’s. At the end of the day I guess it is simple arithmetic for any government.

If EV’s need a financial incentive on top of the ICE ban in 2030 then it demonstrates deficiencies in EV’s and/or cost to purchase. Just prior to launching the Model S, Elon Musk said that to get the public to by an EV if cannot just be as good as an equivalent ICE vehicle, it has to be better. The truth is most EV’s simply are not, and those that come close seem prohibitively expensive.

 

[BarrieG]

15,000 miles at 1.5p in my HS PHEV will cost me £225, but I've saved nearly £1,000 in fuel costs alone (petrol + electricity v petrol) compared to the same twelve month period in my previous petrol car.
My main gripe is that I will be charged fuel duty for my approximately 4,000 per year in France when I paying their fuel duty and tolls. 4,000 miles when I'm not contributing any wear and tear to British roads!
Instead of charging me for my mileage in Europe, Rayner should have toll booths in the ports to charge all European electric and PHEV cars a lump sum of £15 to cover their wear and tear on our roads. Cheaper than most French tolls.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

I'm not using one. It's illegal and rips off the next purchaser of your vehicle. Trying to justify it on the basis you don't like paying for road usage is like justifying shop lifting because you dont like paying for groceries. If you are going to thieve at least own what you are doing.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

The main difference to that is French toll roads are privately owned , although there is talk of bringing them back into the national network. In the main British roads are publicly owned and paid for through various taxes . Ideally you need proof of 4000 foreign miles to be subtracted from your total and a system that recognises it. Turning ports into a Swiss like border to capture some missing revenue would most likely cost more to implement and police than it receives.

 

[Rolfe]

I presume nobody is intending to use such a blocker, and this conversation is entirely hypothetical. Otherwise it would be against forum rules, which prohibit the promotion of illegal activities. (Including speeding, just as an aside. You can confess to being naughty, but you can't present it as a good thing, or encourage anyone to do it.)

 

[Ian Key]

One paragraph says:

"Our supplier in Germany has just cracked the post-2024-model VW Passat and hopes to have cracked the rest of the 2024 VW range within the next few months," he said. "Also, they are just about to finish developing blockers for Omoda, Jaecoo and Chery vehicles."

No mention of MG. Is that because MG don't release their software codes for smart charging etc? (Sorry I don't know the technical terminology)

 

[GranTurismoEra]

Until those ANPR start calculating point to point. Mass audit of fraudsters.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

Until those ANPR start calculating point to point. Mass audit of fraudsters.

And then cross referencing it with your bank account details for fast charging sessions and/or your leccy bills and energy supplier to see how many nights you have used over 30 kwh of energy then averaging out a mileage based on imputed electrons. George Orwell never predicted that one!

 

[Rolfe]

And then those of us who use the electricity in our cars for things other than driving will get really upset.

 

[T1 Terry]

Until those ANPR start calculating point to point. Mass audit of fraudsters.

Not as over the top as you might think. Number plate recognition is a major part of the road safety system over here for heavy vehicle drivers. Also, every speed camera and point to point camera records every rego number.

Simply enough to log each rego as it passes one of the cameras and doing to quick calculation between spots where recorded to tally up a distance travelled. If the reported travel distance doesn't match or show more than the recorded distance on the computer, a red flag comes up and you are directed to bring your vehicle in for a lookie=see at one of the facilities to find out why the readings are different ..... good luck not getting your rego cancelled with no refund, a defect notice that will require an authorised testing facility to determine the odometer was reading correctly .... at a fee of course, then apply for vehicle inspection with said authorised report, to apply for registration .... after verifying you have also paid the fine ......
Not really worth the effort .....

T1 Terry

 

[T1 Terry]

And then those of us who use the electricity in our cars for things other than driving will get really upset.

But then if you are storing your own electrons from your solar, they would have no record of that, but if you were using the free supply between certain hrs and then using that in the home while electricity prices are high, or simply not available, then you would have to record each time you used the car's battery storage to power the house, then make them recalculate their figures ..... they give up fairly quickly when you push work back their way

T1 Terry