PodPoint at Lidl

[siteguru]

I'm not sure your maths quite works out ...

Let's say 69p per kWh and 3 miles per kWh - that would be 23p per mile.

Let's say £1.50 per litre and 40 mpg (which is about 8.8 miles per litre) - that would be 17p per mile.

Pence per mile is the real comparison. If you get 4 miles per kWh then the cost becomes 17.25p per mile ... comparable with ICE

However if you then factor in motorway services fuel prices (which is the ICE equivalent of rapid chargers) then the difference swings towards EV being equivalent or cheaper.

 

[StanBowlesb]

I'm not sure your maths quite works out ...

Let's say 69p per kWh and 3 miles per kWh - that would be 23p per mile.

Let's say £1.50 per litre and 40 mpg (which is about 8.8 miles per litre) - that would be 17p per mile.

Pence per mile is the real comparison. If you get 4 miles per kWh then the cost becomes 17.25p per mile ... comparable with ICE

However if you then factor in motorway services fuel prices (which is the ICE equivalent of rapid chargers) then the difference swings towards EV being equivalent or cheaper.

In over forty years of driving, I've never been mug enough to fill up at motorway service stations. My maths are not very far out. I'm basing the calcs on our Toyota Auris which we run alongside out MG4. The Auris delivers 52 mpg. At £1.40 (cheaper than your £1.50 but very representative of current petrol prices) that's 12.2p per mile. Our MG4 is giving us about 3.5 miles per kWh so that's 14.85kWh to drive the 52 miles we would get per gallon in the Auris. 79p per kw seems to be a typical public charging rate. That is equivalent to £11.73 a gallon or £2.58 per litre. Obviously, the exact figures will vary according the the car and the driving but there is no doubt that public charger prices are a scandal that needs to be exposed. They need to be down at around 43p per kWh to even equal current typical petrol prices of £1.40 a litre.

 

[SimonS]

I'm outraged by the high public charging prices. They should be lower than petrol prices in order to incentivise a shift away from fossil fuels. Instead, they are equivalent to around £2.70 per litre. Disgraceful.

I think you need to ask for a new calculator for Christmas.

The average ICE car in the UK will do 38.8 mpg (source: Nimblefins). The average BEV will do 307Wh/mile which equals 3.26mi/kWh (source: EV database).

38.8/4.546 = 8.53mpL (miles per Litre)

8.53/3.26 = 2.62 i.e. 2.62kWh = 1L

£2.70/2.62 = £1.03 per kWh. There may be some charging that much but I've not found them.

I've just looked at ten rapid/ultra rapid chargers within 50 miles of where I live and the results are:

BP, Instavolt & Shell 85p
Osprey, Gridserve,MFG & Applegreen 79p
Ionity 74p
Fast Ned 69p
Tesla 62p peak 55p off peak
All are their headline rates. Many of them have lower rates with subscriptions or certain cards (I paid 66p at Ionity with an electroverse card)

85p is equivalent to £1.65/L
79p " £1.54
74p " £1.44
69p " £1.34
62p " £1.21
55p " £1.07

So with the current price of unleaded at around £1.44 I'd avoid BP, Instavolt, Shell, Osprey, Gridserve, MFG & Applegreen.

 

[Brianlescargot]

Not sure we have that up in Scotland, but I was only there for about 15 minutes as I was just testing the DC charging. Think the signs say you can park for 90 minutes without any problem but bever been an issue for any of the shopping trips I have made

Ignore PPC notices in Scotland, they can’t enforce it as it‘s only the driver who is responsible not the registered keeper. Different legislation south of the border means they can theoretically pursue it.

 

[Brianlescargot]

I think you need to ask for a new calculator for Christmas.

The average ICE car in the UK will do 38.8mpg (source: Nimblefins). The average BEV will do 307Wh/mile which equals 3.26m/kWh (source: EV database).

38.8/4.546 = 8.53mpL (miles per Litre)

8.53/3.26 = 2.62 i.e. 2.62kWh = 1L

£2.70/2.62 = £1.03 per kWh. There may be some charging that much but I've not found them.

I've just looked at ten rapid/ultra rapid chargers within 50 miles of where I live and the results are:

BP, Instavolt & Shell 85p
Osprey, Gridserve,MFG & Applegreen 79p
Ionity 74p
Fast Ned 69p
Tesla 62p peak 55p off peak
All are their headline rates. Many of them have lower rates with subscriptions or certain cards (I paid 66p at Ionity with an electroverse card)

85p is equivalent to £1.65/L
79p " £1.54
74p " £1.44
69p " £1.34
62p " £1.21
55p " £1.07

So with the current price of unleaded at around £1.44 I'd avoid BP, Instavolt, Shell, Osprey, Gridserve, MFG & Applegreen.

BP Pulse have a subscription which offers cheaper charging rates, the first month is free and £9 credit for the first 5 months.

 

[siteguru]

Ignore PPC notices in Scotland, they can’t enforce it as it‘s only the driver who is responsible not the registered keeper. Different legislation south of the border means they can theoretically pursue it.

But once the new Parking Code of Practice Bill comes into effect then Schedule 4 of PoFA (Protection of Freedoms Act 2012) will become enabled in Scotland, allowing parking companies the same "freedoms" as they enjoy in England and Wales*. We can thank Nicola for that.

* only for PCNs issue after the date the Parking CoP Bill comes into effect. It's not retrospective.

 

[Brianlescargot]

I know that legislation was “temporarily” withdrawn and that the politics behind it are complicated even so I still wouldn’t pay a PCN. Apparently they get in the region of 600,000 unpaid notices every year so they ain’t likely to pursue a single ticket. If everyone refused to pay these notices then they’d soon go out of business. The whole business is a con.

 

[siteguru]

Fortunately the Scottish court system (Simple Procedure) is still more restrictive than the English courts, so one or even two PCNs are unlikely to be pursued to court due to the claimant being unable to recover costs where a claim is under £300. Still best to try to avoid getting a PCN in the first place.

 

[PJWey]

Just back from New Zealand where I hired an EV. Charging infrastructure not brilliant, but never queued for a charger, mostly 50kW and only 70c - less than 35p per kWh!! Made me realise how much we are being ripped off in the UK by ever rising, and unjustified, charge costs.

Spark Gap is the name of the issue in the UK with gas given many advantages and electricity tied to gas wholesale prices.

 

[StanBowlesb]

I think you need to ask for a new calculator for Christmas.

The average ICE car in the UK will do 38.8 mpg (source: Nimblefins). The average BEV will do 307Wh/mile which equals 3.26mi/kWh (source: EV database).

38.8/4.546 = 8.53mpL (miles per Litre)

8.53/3.26 = 2.62 i.e. 2.62kWh = 1L

£2.70/2.62 = £1.03 per kWh. There may be some charging that much but I've not found them.

I've just looked at ten rapid/ultra rapid chargers within 50 miles of where I live and the results are:

BP, Instavolt & Shell 85p
Osprey, Gridserve,MFG & Applegreen 79p
Ionity 74p
Fast Ned 69p
Tesla 62p peak 55p off peak
All are their headline rates. Many of them have lower rates with subscriptions or certain cards (I paid 66p at Ionity with an electroverse card)

85p is equivalent to £1.65/L
79p " £1.54
74p " £1.44
69p " £1.34
62p " £1.21
55p " £1.07

So with the current price of unleaded at around £1.44 I'd avoid BP, Instavolt, Shell, Osprey, Gridserve, MFG & Applegreen.

Let's do the maths simply. My Toyota Auris does 52 miles to the gallon. So that is 11.44 miles (52/4.546) to the litre at, say, £1.40 a litre (in fact, my wife has just filled up for £1.38). For me that is the benchmark I have to pay attention to, not one based on a more thirsty gas guzzler which I would never own. My MG4 does 3.5 miles to the kw. So I would need 3.27 kw (11.44/3.5) to get the same economy as the Auris. At 79p per kw, 3.27kw would cost £2.58. So £2.58 is my equivalent cost per litre. For me to recharge on the public road at the same cost as putting petrol into the Toyota, charging prices would need to come down to 42.8p. I am not sure why people are rushing to defend or pretend that the public charging prices are nothing other than outrageously high. As I said earlier, they need to be cheaper than petrol to give a decent incentive for people to move away from fossil fuels. In other words, around 35p per kw.

 

[SimonS]

My figures are correct for the average ICE car and the average BEV. For there to be an average there must be some lower data points and some higher. Your figures may be correct for you but they do not represent the majority.
Having said that I do agree that prices are currently too high at most chargers But where Tesla has chargers open to all drivers and there are also chargers from another more expensive supplier on the same site their prices have started to drop as they find they are losing business to Tesla. In the meantime, those who share sites with ‘Tesla only‘ chargers are squeezing the price while they can. If you take out a Tesla subscription you can get rates as low as 26p/kWh at off peak times.

 

[philip456]

Yeah, 65p isn't bad. (Open Tesla points are cheaper, but there aren't many other places cheaper).

At Gretna services it is 69p GridServe (50kW), 74p Ionity (150kW) and 79p AppleGreen (180kw shared between 2 points).

Terrible pricing. Makes an electric car more expensive to run than a small, petrol car if you have to use public ev chargers.

Surely, BP and the rest have access to wholesale prices way below 30p And could charge way less.

 

[StanBowlesb]

Terrible pricing. Makes an electric car more expensive to run than a small, petrol car if you have to use public ev chargers.

Surely, BP and the rest have access to wholesale prices way below 30p And could charge way less.

Hear, hear. Quite agree.

 

[SimonS]

 

[Steve08]

The huge variation in prices doesn't help. Apart from trips to Manchester and Aberdeen I don't use 'expensive' chargers (Applegreen Gretna and Tesla Dundee). The local public charger is 26p (22-50kwh) and in some areas free (7 or 22kwh). Cheaper than our diesel ICE although I don't think you can compare Kia Sorrento to a MG4. For us this was a factor in switching.

 

[Craig J]

Went to try my first public charging session today, was expecting the worst but was pleasantly surprised. 50kW PodPoint charger at the local Lidl.

Get out the car
Plug in the CCS charge cable
Press the start button on the PodPoint app

Car was at 73% and I charged it to 80%
No battery pre heat, ambient temp indicated was 7deg

Car pulled charge in around 35kW

Car hit 80% target and stopped charging
Unplugged charge cable
Job done

Added 8.64kWh to the battery cost £5.62 so £0.65 per kWh

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't the break even cost with petrol/diesel about 44p/kWh????

 

[Drakon]

BP Pulse have a subscription which offers cheaper charging rates, the first month is free and £9 credit for the first 5 months.

I’m still waiting for them to setup my account…

 

[Anon70]

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't the break even cost with petrol/diesel about 44p/kWh????

Different factors will determine the break even but if you equate 15p per mile costs this is where the break even points would occur

 

[Burgo]

Terrible pricing. Makes an electric car more expensive to run than a small, petrol car if you have to use public ev chargers.

Surely, BP and the rest have access to wholesale prices way below 30p And could charge way less.

Purely for info and not snarking or gloating (don't forget wages and salaries are a lot lower here as well, so at the end of the day things kind of cost the same or just a bit less if you're earning here) charging rates are €0.39/kwh at our local McDonald's on a 22kw type2,, €0.45mkhh for the 50kw Combo. €0.34/kwh on a 22kw type2 at the Mercadona supermarket (8 bays). €0.35 is approx 30p.
At home standard tarif is approx €0.15/kwh during Off peak (0000 - 0800 Mon to Fri, All day Sat, Sun and fiesta days), but there is a reduced tarif for EVs you can switch to which I am researching.

 

[m4rmite]

Fear not.
Petrol/ diesel prices will rise soon using the red sea is a no go as an excuse.
Just remember, the government don't want low prices of anything as they will lose more tax/vat/duty.