Solar and house battery installation

I looked again on my normal day consumption and it averages to 9kw.

Is it wise to go for a 15kw system?
My aim was to stay off peak rate costs, if your average is 9kWh you need to be above 9kWh to avoid the peak rate. 15kWh sounds a sensible margin but only you can assess the worst case scenario, mine was Christmas day and we just scraped through with our batteries which was nice.
If you go for modular batteries like Fogstar ones, they come in convenient 5 kWh units, you could go to 10kWh and see how it fits with your requirements and if you decide you need 15 kWh add another battery, they simply plus in to the existing ones.
 
But what creates the 'ceiling price'? Surely it's the house with the best specification / condition. A house with a good energy performance thats head and shoulders above the rest will surely raise the ceiling price?
Talking to a few estate agents recently, they say that it can go either way - some people think that having solar on the roof spoils the look of the property and don't want to have to understand the technology. To others, it's a plus point.
 
Cycle time depends on usage, so varies from property to property. We use many times the 'average' annual household electricity usages, so could be considerably lower lifespan. It also depends what you spend on the batteries - more cycles, costs more. There is not a standard one size fits all.
As with all things it depends on the quality of what you buy but your statement didnt cover that :)

They are warrantied for 10 years. They may last longer, and they may not. There are plenty of people who have had to replace theirs.
Absolutely but the EVE cells have a very good reputation for not failing early. Its a bit like EV batteries, so many petrol heads repeat ''You have to consider the cost of the battery replacement when it's knackered after 8 years' as we all know that really isnt the case except for some EV's with poor battery management systems eg Nissan Leaf.

That's good to hear that lifespan is increasing, but I still have to consider the warranty period as the lifespan for proper cost accounting. If they extend the warranties, that's great.
Whatever you need to do is entirely your call but again you presented the inverter life as a fact rather than your accounting method.

I would also point out that high-end inverters do cost more, so it isn't getting something for nothing.
Well, thats kind of obvious and all part of my figures quoted in this and other threads.

People will only pay a certain amount above the average house price in the area for the same size house. We have been advised that our house is already the nicest in the street and will set a new ceiling price and spending more on it may increase saleability but will not increase the value.
Well there houses for sale around here that disproves your theory, the solar and batteries adding to the price, it is likely of course that you wont get back what youve invested in the sale price but you would have reaped the benefits prior to selling.

It can't be easily moved - it requires electrical work, transporting the heavy batteries and redoing the new house's system which may not have the same layout, cabling will probably be different.
They are easily moved, the 5 kWh batteries weigh in at around 45 kg, any removal company could easily move them. The wiring is big deal either simply disconnect the LNE with the breaker isolated job done, it really is that simple with battery only system.
As far the new house, it's guaranteed the cabling will be different but not a deal breaker surely? A 32 or 50 amp feed to location where the inverter is and switch on to 30p kWh savings or more.
Yes, it can be done, but trying to coordinate alongside a house move is not something I want to bother with.
Absolutely fine, you go whatever route you wish whenever you want, I have no desire to persuade you to go for any system. I do however feel your logic and understanding is slightly flawed in places and the true picture presented to the others in this thread that are considering going the battery and/or solar route.

I appreciate your enthusiasm in this, but my mind is made up (after considerable research).
That's not a problem and I'm grateful for your 'challenge' of my statements, it's always good to have other opinions. I too did loads of research over the last 18 months before going solar + battery and then an additional AC coupled battery which I actually made myself. It's an absolute minefield of sales promising the earth, people that dont know the subject spreading rumours etc. It took quite a while to filter through and find out the true facts. I did suffer one major booboo on the way, the solar PV and battery system I had professionally installed I had not spotted that the inverter when running on batteries was only capable of outputting 3 kW as opposed to its 6 kW rating, thats what prompted me to embark on the AC coupled DIY battery.

Talking to a few estate agents recently, they say that it can go either way - some people think that having solar on the roof spoils the look of the property and don't want to have to understand the technology. To others, it's a plus point.
Absolutely, my house will be occupied by my son and his family when were gone so thats great, I would envisage my setup would need to be simplified if it was to be sold on the open market.

My 8kWh battery was only giving 6kWh after 3 years. I contacted the company and made a warranty claim, which they ignored. I downloaded a complaint letter from Martin Lewis's website and cited the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and got a phone call from the CEO of the company.
I'm sure it can happen and theres a good chance that the cells used weren't EVE cells. The chemistry has also advanced in leaps and bounds to the LifeP04 cells that we all know and love these days which are much better. BMS systems can also play a big part in battery longevity, many older systems for example didn't control battery temperature and still allowed charging at below 0 deg C. I have battery heating on mine that maintains them at 8 deg C or above.

After 3 years, the battery had become obsolete (which was probably why they were trying to ignore me and hoping I'd go away). The upshot is, they offered me compensation for the missing capacity I'd had to pay for on the electricity bill, or a discounted upgrade to a new 12kWh battery with new 10 year warranty. (Guess which one I went for) :)
Thats probably the move to LifeP04 which made the old one obsolete. As to which you picked it would depend on the discount, the make and how you feel about the company I guess!
 
@johnb80
So, if I go for the Multipluss 2 5000 GX it will charge and discharge up to 5kwh?

And the same inverter COULD also be used on an additional solar PV installation?

Any suggestions where to buy the inverter from at lowest price?

Hopefully I will be taking to an electrician tomorrow. Wish me luck 🤞
 
@johnb80
So, if I go for the Multipluss 2 5000 GX it will charge and discharge up to 5kwh?
3.6 kW max charge, 70 amps at 52v. In reality you reduce the charge rate so that you can fully charge during the off peak supply duration, it's kinder on the batteries. In my case I charge at 50 amps and have a 6 hour window.

And the same inverter COULD also be used on an additional solar PV installation?
You would need to add a Victron MPPT controller which would handle charging the batteries and supplying the inverter directly from solar. It is a straight forward plug and play.

Any suggestions where to buy the inverter from at lowest price?
When I bought mine, the cheapest price I could find was the Battery Megastore. Have a search on ebay, Amazon and google with Multiplus II GX price.

Hopefully I will be taking to an electrician tomorrow. Wish me luck 🤞
Good luck, it really isnt rocket science, he should be ok running a twin and earth to the inverter with a local isolator assuming your proposed location isnt 500 metres away from your consumer unit etc.
 
3.6 kW max charge, 70 amps at 52v. In reality you reduce the charge rate so that you can fully charge during the off peak supply duration, it's kinder on the batteries. In my case I charge at 50 amps and have a 6 hour window.


You would need to add a Victron MPPT controller which would handle charging the batteries and supplying the inverter directly from solar. It is a straight forward plug and play.


When I bought mine, the cheapest price I could find was the Battery Megastore. Have a search on ebay, Amazon and google with Multiplus II GX price.


Good luck, it really isnt rocket science, he should be ok running a twin and earth to the inverter with a local isolator assuming your proposed location isnt 500 metres away from your consumer unit etc.
@johnb80
I had the electrician around and he had a look at the layout. Now I await to see how much it will cost.

I have also looked at a few Victron related videos on YouTube and one mentioned that the Multiplus II no longer need a generation meter. I might need confirmation by the manufacturer on that.
Also, do I need the GX interface for a battery only setup? That would save some money for sure. What's your take on the above?

 
@johnb80
I had the electrician around and he had a look at the layout. Now I await to see how much it will cost.
Hopefully hew was confident to connect up Live, Neutral and Earth LOL, he shouldnt charge too much.

I have also looked at a few Victron related videos on YouTube and one mentioned that the Multiplus II no longer need a generation meter. I might need confirmation by the manufacturer on that.
I run mine without a generation meter, I do have a CT clamp on the live meter tail to sense the Import / Export so the Victron can do it's stuff. Dont buy the Victron CT though, theyre typically about £100, the generic ones on ebay (theyre a standard spec device) are around £9 and readily available.

1Pc SCT-013-000 YHDC 30A 50A 100A Retractable Current 'Transformer SCT013000 | eBay

Also, do I need the GX interface for a battery only setup? That would save some money for sure.
I cant answer this one, I was advised to go the GX route or Non GX plus a Cerbo GX unit. I wasnt 100% confident in the system working so I opted for the GX and I have no regrets, it's easy to access with built in WiFi and LAN etc. I would ask the question on one of the many Victron forums. This is the one I use and got most help from:-

All Posts - Victron Community

The interface is a little quirky but you soon get to grips with it.
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Thanks @johnb80, I will have a look at the Victron forum. I have always questions that benefit from answers.
Your knowledge on the CT clamp will save me a few quids!

My setup will require a cable run from the consumer unit to the garage, where the setup will reside, a run of about 10 metres. I assume that the CT cable can be hooked near the inverter end and not at the meter tails. Otherwise, it will need an other long cable run.
 
Thanks @johnb80, I will have a look at the Victron forum. I have always questions that benefit from answers.
Your knowledge on the CT clamp will save me a few quids!
No problem, i couldnt believe the price of the Victron unit and actually sent it back having seen it and measured burden resistor etc. It is just an industry standard SCT 013.

My setup will require a cable run from the consumer unit to the garage, where the setup will reside, a run of about 10 metres. I assume that the CT cable can be hooked near the inverter end and not at the meter tails. Otherwise, it will need an other long cable run.
The CT does need to be on the meter tails to measure import / export, I extended the cable on mine using screened twisted pair cable:-


Straight forward to do, I took the CT apart, it just clips together, and soldered the cable in directly. Victron say no more than 5 metres for twisted pair, thats why I used screened twisted pair and mine is a run of 25 metres! It's absolutely fine, I used a scope on signal and it's no problem with the cable length.
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Thanks @johnb80

Soldering I can do, as I have the tools for it. I have also a bit of sticky aluminium foil to bridge the two cables.

I have already joined the Victron community forum and I had a reply already with regards to the CT clamp.
It seems that if the electrician taps in before the house consumer unit, the CT clamp can be added at the garage end, before the inverter, as the the house load will be running separate, in parallel to the garage cable. Then using the AC OUT1 for the garage load only.
 
Thanks @johnb80

Soldering I can do, as I have the tools for it. I have also a bit of sticky aluminium foil to bridge the two cables.
Excellent, just connect the screen across the joint, should be easy, heatshrink sleeve over it to make a proper job.

I have already joined the Victron community forum and I had a reply already with regards to the CT clamp.
It seems that if the electrician taps in before the house consumer unit, the CT clamp can be added at the garage end, before the inverter, as the the house load will be running separate, in parallel to the garage cable. Then using the AC OUT1 for the garage load only.
That would mean effectively double the 10 metre run of meter tails as opposed to 1 x 10metre run of 10mm cable plus the CT. The Multiplus only needs connecting on AC IN it then feeds back to support the house load from batteries or imports from the grid to charge the batteries rather than the whole 100 amp feed passing through the inverter, the terminals are way too small to accept the 25mm2 meter tails.
 
Excellent, just connect the screen across the joint, should be easy, heatshrink sleeve over it to make a proper job.


That would mean effectively double the 10 metre run of meter tails as opposed to 1 x 10metre run of 10mm cable plus the CT.

Sorry, when I said in parallel, I meant a cable coming off the consumer unit with 32A breaker going to the inverter and leaving the rest of the consumer load on its own. Not coming off the inverter out, so no UPS in an event that the grid going down. I would just have the garage load coming off the AC1 out from the Multipluss inverter.

I am awaiting a response from Fogstar regarding the battery compatibility with the inverter as these are not in the current list of approved battery storage, hence there will be no support from Victron in the event that there will be any issues. Fogstar states that their EVE batteries are compatible with Victron inverter but I can't see which this applies to. Hopefully I get a response from them on Monday.
 
Sorry, when I said in parallel, I meant a cable coming off the consumer unit with 32A breaker going to the inverter and leaving the rest of the consumer load on its own. Not coming off the inverter out, so no UPS in an event that the grid going down. I would just have the garage load coming off the AC1 out from the Multipluss inverter.
In which case the CT definitely needs to be run back to the meter tails. The only way it could have been done as your sparky suggested was to have run tails to the inverter and then tails from the inverter back to the house.
 
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

MG3 Hybrid+ & Cyberster Configurator News + hot topics from the MG EVs forums
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom