V2L function to power the house?

[johnb80]

2 - Use the V2L output to power a DC power supply. Then feed this into an approved grid-tie inverter (when specs emerge such devices appear).
Setting the GTI to run during the day, and the car to charge during cheap off peak rates.
This would allow you to load shift using the car's battery.

However... both would require a lot a lot of charging lead/V2L swapping, or hacking your charger about. And DIY engineering.

This is pretty much what I have installed BUT I disagree (nothing new there!) that it "would require a lot a lot of charging lead/V2L swapping, or hacking your charger about" I have a DIY battery system and inverter installed at my house. I use an ex server power supply that has adjustable output connected to my batteries. On the initial setup I waited for my house batteries to get down to 75% and adjusted the power supply to take 3kW from our MG5. The real beauty of this system is that it can be used any time not just in power cuts, to adds a useful 50 kWh of storage to my existing 30 kWh, it's simple to connect up, a lead from the battery enclosure to the MG5 is all that's needed, switch on and enjoy. If the demand on the inverter is less than 3 kW, the batteries will start to charge at a very slow rate, as the voltage increases during charging, the current from the power supply drops off. If I leave my inverter with no load the batteries get to around 87% and the supply from the MG5 drops to 30W. Later in the day as more loads co0me on the current from the power supply increases up to it's 3 kW maximum.
It does of course rely on having a Grid Tied Inverter, batteries and a power supply. I had all of that so the cost was minimal to install it.

 

[Bam Bam]

Sorry Bam Bam, I have to take exception to this, what I do IS safe, it presents no danger to people or equipment.

Apologies for my misunderstanding. I remembered some debate about something, but I couldn't remember what. Will edit the post.

 

[wattmatters]

For those suggesting installing a power inlet and break before make transfer switch to isolate the home and V2L supply from the grid, it most likely will not work because the car's V2L system is not designed to operate a load with a main earth-neutral link.

The V2L system is designed to power an isolated appliance which does not have such a E-N bond. If you did hook it up to a home as above then the car's V2L system will cut out with a fault.

It's the same issue for those using portable generators as a home backup, the generator's earth-neutral link needs to be broken before it can be used in this manner (i.e. powering a home via a transfer switch).

At my last home I had a system not dissimilar to what was described earlier with the V2L powering an isolated home battery charger, and the home being powered by the battery's inverter and compliant with electrical codes. I used it numerous times during extended grid power outages.

Nowadays I have a Sigenergy system with a DC bidirectional charger so the cars can supply power to the home if ever I need it. They can also export to the grid, not that I have any interest/desire to do so.

 

[wattmatters]

Nowadays I have a Sigenergy system with a DC bidirectional charger so the cars can supply power to the home if ever I need it. They can also export to the grid, not that I have any interest/desire to do so.

Here's a youtube vid where I discuss the V2H/G capability of the Sigenergy system and our MG EVs:

 

[Corindikev]

I bought a 32 amp V2L adapter so in theory I could run a 7kW load. The problem is that most extension leads are only 10 amps with heavy duty ones 15 amps. I have a 15 amp lead & in a power outage with 4 x 10 amp leads connected to a 15 amp distribution board I can run the fridge, freezer, TV, lights, computers or an electric kettle & toaster or combination of microwave, bench oven etc. Anything so long as the combined current is 15 amps or less.

This is what V2L is for & enables you to connect things via extension lead for no additional cost. Most adapter manufacturers realise that a large percentage of the population has no idea of electrical loads so limit the output of their devices. The MG supplied one delivers 10 amps. The supplier that provided my 32 amp output adapter now only supplies them in a maximum 15 amp format.

 

[johnb80]

Apologies for my misunderstanding. I remembered some debate about something, but I couldn't remember what. Will edit the post.

Nah dont worry about it, I still slept soundly in my bed

The only point that I was taken to task over if I recall correctly was relying on the BMS to stop the charging if the battery became fully charged. A member said I shouldn't be doing that, using the BMS in this way was potentially dangerous. Two aspects of this, in my modus operandi my batteries never approach fully charged due to the voltage I adjust the power supply. I have also spoken to Seplos (the BMS manufacturer) they say it's perfectly fine to run the BMS as a charge shut off device, they have a separate bank of MOSFETS controlling charge and discharge.

 

[T1 Terry]

I bought a 32 amp V2L adapter so in theory I could run a 7kW load. The problem is that most extension leads are only 10 amps with heavy duty ones 15 amps. I have a 15 amp lead & in a power outage with 4 x 10 amp leads connected to a 15 amp distribution board I can run the fridge, freezer, TV, lights, computers or an electric kettle & toaster or combination of microwave, bench oven etc. Anything so long as the combined current is 15 amps or less.

This is what V2L is for & enables you to connect things via extension lead for no additional cost. Most adapter manufacturers realise that a large percentage of the population has no idea of electrical loads so limit the output of their devices. The MG supplied one delivers 10 amps. The supplier that provided my 32 amp output adapter now only supplies them in a maximum 15 amp format.

Buy a length of 5mm sq 2 core plus earth round orange cable and make your own 32 amp extension cable, you can run 3 devices pulling 10amps, the max for any appliance that plugs into a standard household power point in Australia.
The MG4 won't supply more than 7kw, try for more and it just shuts down, the output is 50 hz 220vac ......

T1 Terry

 

[johnb80]

Buy a length of 5mm sq 2 core plus earth round orange cable and make your own 32 amp extension cable, you can run 3 devices pulling 10amps, the max for any appliance that plugs into a standard household power point in Australia.
The MG4 won't supply more than 7kw, try for more and it just shuts down, the output is 50 hz 220vac ......

T1 Terry

What type of inverter is fitted to the MG's? I assume it's a modified sinewave rather than a pure sinewave unit? If this is the case, users need to be careful on what loads are connected, most devices with switch mode power supplies should be OK and linear type power supplies too but devices with motor speed controls for example such as washing machines, food mixers etc care needs to be taken to avoid damage.

 

[T1 Terry]

What type of inverter is fitted to the MG's? I assume it's a modified sinewave rather than a pure sinewave unit? If this is the case, users need to be careful on what loads are connected, most devices with switch mode power supplies should be OK and linear type power supplies too but devices with motor speed controls for example such as washing machines, food mixers etc care needs to be taken to avoid damage.

It is 50hz pure sinewave in the units over here, the Victron inverter will accept it as clean power, it does chuck a nasty when it has to supplement the output, doesn't seem to like trying to produce 220vac to blend with the 220vac supply, but it does it, all be it with load clunks and moans of disapproval .... We've named it Marvin

As a comparison, the Victron Multiplus will not have anything to do with an Onan Generator or any really apart from the inverter Honda range ......

T1 Terry

 

[johnb80]

It is 50hz pure sinewave in the units over here, the Victron inverter will accept it as clean power, it does chuck a nasty when it has to supplement the output, doesn't seem to like trying to produce 220vac to blend with the 220vac supply, but it does it, all be it with load clunks and moans of disapproval .... We've named it Marvin

As a comparison, the Victron Multiplus will not have anything to do with an Onan Generator or any really apart from the inverter Honda range ......

T1 Terry

I've found Multiplus II pretty accommodating with gennys I've fed into it, it seems pretty resilient in overload state too, way more output than it's rating. It's certainly a heavy piece of kit compared to many others.

 

[gonzo]

This is pretty much what I have installed BUT I disagree (nothing new there!) that it "would require a lot a lot of charging lead/V2L swapping, or hacking your charger about" I have a DIY battery system and inverter installed at my house. I use an ex server power supply that has adjustable output connected to my batteries. On the initial setup I waited for my house batteries to get down to 75% and adjusted the power supply to take 3kW from our MG5. The real beauty of this system is that it can be used any time not just in power cuts, to adds a useful 50 kWh of storage to my existing 30 kWh, it's simple to connect up, a lead from the battery enclosure to the MG5 is all that's needed, switch on and enjoy. If the demand on the inverter is less than 3 kW, the batteries will start to charge at a very slow rate, as the voltage increases during charging, the current from the power supply drops off. If I leave my inverter with no load the batteries get to around 87% and the supply from the MG5 drops to 30W. Later in the day as more loads co0me on the current from the power supply increases up to it's 3 kW maximum.
It does of course rely on having a Grid Tied Inverter, batteries and a power supply. I had all of that so the cost was minimal to install it.

John

My solar/battery system is also DIY, mostly home built and coded. So I could do the same and mod the ev charge point do dual service.
But I was pitching this to those who need to reply on existing commercial products. And as far as I am aware there are no single plug (EV plug) solutions that will give grid tie for a V2L. There are probably solutions for V2G cars, but I don't believe any of the MG's have that, yet.

Personally I prefer to keep the car batts separate from the house system. So I am not degrading my transport options to keep a house powered. As if an outage were to last for a prolonged period, I would not want to be stacking up future issues by not being able to drive.
My recent set of house batteries were £700 for 5kw-hr (Half what they cost me 3yrs ago!). For me is cheap enough to not want to start using the car.
Given that for most people, the cost of professionally installing equipment is going to be high. Adding more house battery capacity is going to add little relative cost.

In the event of a grid outage, I have a stand alone inverter and the old suicide lead.
Not to be recommended to anyone else, but in my case, the incoming isolator is locked off and the plug to plug is in a locked rack unit with a dedicated cct back to the solar CU. A very manual change over, but I am happy to do this is the very rare case we do lose grid.

Of course, for grid wide planning, it would be useful to have huge numbers of V2G cars idling on the grid, under grid control. Allowing you to rent your battery to the grid when not in use. But the payback would have to at least cover the wear on the battery from this extra use.
But that is a different conversation.

 

[T1 Terry]

I've found Multiplus II pretty accommodating with gennys I've fed into it, it seems pretty resilient in overload state too, way more output than it's rating. It's certainly a heavy piece of kit compared to many others.

The Multiplus 1, the original, is twice the weight because it has one big toroidal transformer where the Multiplus II has separated this into two smaller ones and a lot easier to get along with regarding connecting and programming via the adapter cable and app, but they still won't tolerate dirty power where there is no clean clear frequency with all the noise filtered out and not perfectly stable voltage.
I guess you've experienced that delay between seeing the input supply and actually accepting it.
We had problems with the neutral link up the pole at the grid transformer and it got that bad the Victron would have nothing to do with it, but it accepted the MG4 in record time.
I've had generators that required an old style filament bubble actually in the supply circuit, before it would accept the generator input, others, like the Kabuto 10kw diesel, required a 240v bar heater to clean up the supply and stabilise the voltage enough for the inverter to accept it and it had to be left on for 15 min before everything was happy ..... till the battery was fully charged, then, unless something serious like a water heater or bar heater was on in the house, there was no way the Victron would accept it

T1 Terry