V2L function to power the house?

[johnb80]

Definitely not bi-directional at that price

You mention it is being installed next week - assume you have a sparky to do that for you as you've bought it via Amazon. Assume also you are aware of the DNO requirements for either approval vs. install and notify depending on supply adequacy / MD of 60A or less etc.

Yes, good point, well raised.

I've just installed one of the new Zappi Glo's for my son and his newly aquired Tesla Model 3. The installation was a breeze, the forms from the DNO not too onerous and as we knew the main fuse size, earthing arrangement and the Zappi was approved we only had to inform them not get permission.

 

[suavecarve]

If you have the option, cancel / return that wallbox. Units like this and many others are not recognised by the top EV tariff providers and therefore you wouldn't be able to use them. Intelligent Octopus GO is currently one of the cheapest at 3.49p off peak for 6 hours as well as other charging sessions during peak hours under their control. You can make good use of this by charging house batteries at the same time if IOG has given you extra sessions. You do need to use one of these:-
Ohme (ePod & Home Pro)
MyEnergi Zappi
Wallbox (Pulsar Max/Plus)
Hypervolt Home 3 Pro
Easee One

My favoured one is the Zappi, it's the most widely accepted wallbox amongst energy suppliers. It also integrates really well with Solar and energy diverters etc.

I m already on dumb octopus go which is only a penny more expensive (after vat).

Looked at it and I would only gain in winter and 800 quid more til payback at that rate. Only 5 hours on the dumb version but it will fill car and battery in that time and expansion of the battery to 20 kWh makes better economic sense to us. (Which would still fill in that time gap)

Current bill (pre electric car bought last week) is about £1.30 a day (including standing charge) as an average. (Ok it got loads of sun in that time) (5 bed bungalow)

I couldn't get my head round the intelligent go where they decide when you charge the car (during the day) and that was generally mornings, whereas if I need leccy it's late evening. Looked at the new solar plug in as well but it's hardly worth it to us as already have 4.2 kW on the FIT (2011) payments.

We are also out of the country for 2 lots of 3 months per year in motorhome (with solar and lithium) charging e bikes daily and never pay to top up electricity (or water, or campsites).

Thanks for the interest.

 

[T1 Terry]

I m already on dumb octopus go which is only a penny more expensive (after vat).

Looked at it and I would only gain in winter and 800 quid more til payback at that rate. Only 5 hours on the dumb version but it will fill car and battery in that time and expansion of the battery to 20 kWh makes better economic sense to us. (Which would still fill in that time gap)

Current bill (pre electric car bought last week) is about £1.30 a day (including standing charge) as an average. (Ok it got loads of sun in that time) (5 bed bungalow)

I couldn't get my head round the intelligent go where they decide when you charge the car (during the day) and that was generally mornings, whereas if I need leccy it's late evening. Looked at the new solar plug in as well but it's hardly worth it to us as already have 4.2 kW on the FIT (2011) payments.

We are also out of the country for 2 lots of 3 months per year in motorhome (with solar and lithium) charging e bikes daily and never pay to top up electricity (or water, or campsites).

Thanks for the interest.

A fellow Motorhomer, with solar and lithium batteries, clearly set up to free camp as we are .... congratulations on the forward thinking .... now to convert the motorhome to EV so you can afford to travel
That is our next step, eventually having enough solar to recharge the EV battery as well, but that one is much further down the track, so it will be range extended type hybrid first off

T1 Terry

 

[suavecarve]

A fellow Motorhomer, with solar and lithium batteries, clearly set up to free camp as we are .... congratulations on the forward thinking .... now to convert the motorhome to EV so you can afford to travel
That is our next step, eventually having enough solar to recharge the EV battery as well, but that one is much further down the track, so it will be range extended type hybrid first off

T1 Terry

I ve been putting some thought into ev motorhomes, as planning to keep this one for 5-6 years then blow the budget on ev motorhome, but only having bought this MG4 on Sunday it looks limiting for ev motorhome.

I can leave house with full (say 100 kWh of battery) travel 200 miles (say) then fill up (presume 100 kWh) in 2 hours for 60 quid. Pre Iran war that's slightly more expensive compared to my diesel in cost. (Especially Spanish prices.)

Currently have 500 watts of solar and 300 Ah lithium (LPG gas low) which (if I use the battery enough) will give me 1.5 kWh on a good day or 4-5 miles of motorhome travel.

So I think the ICE motorhomes are around for a while as little saving in cost per mile for the way we travel. Using motorhome locally would be more beneficial, and I m assuming the cost of an EV motorhome would be higher than ICE.
If I downsize to a pvc in older age, I can see it occurring though, but not for a while, here's hoping and happy travelling.

 

[T1 Terry]

I ve been putting some thought into ev motorhomes, as planning to keep this one for 5-6 years then blow the budget on ev motorhome, but only having bought this mg4 on Sunday it looks limiting for ev motorhome.

I can leave house with full (say 100 KW of battery) travel 200 miles (say) then fill up (presume 100 KW) in 2 hours for 60 quid. Pre Iran war that's slightly more expensive to my diesel in cost. (Especially Spanish prices)

Currently have 500 watts of solar and 300 ah lithium (LPG gas low) which (if I use the battery enough) will give me 1.5 KW on a good day or 4-5 miles of motorhome travel.

So I think the ICE motorhomes are around for a while as little saving in cost per mile for the way we travel. Using motorhome locally would be more beneficial, and I m assuming the cost of an EV motorhome would be higher than ICE.
If I downsize to a pvc in older age, I can see it occurring though, but not for a while, here's hoping and happy travelling

Our 30ft Winnie, towing the MG4 on a trailer, comes in at 12.5 tonne. The V10 6.8ltr 20 valve Ford engine goes great, but it is a tad thirsty, 2km/ltr thirsty.
200ltr petrol is good for between 400kms and 500kms, depends on hills, wind direction and the weight of my right foot ..... there is a certain amount of enjoyment pulling up past a B double in the short overtaking lanes they have around here. The price for that much fun was $400 for 200ltrs of petrol (the cheap stuff) that went up to $600, starts to hurt when the trip is 1600kms each way as the crow flies, so it wouldn't take all that long to recover the cost of 700kWh of battery storage.
Already have the hybrid set up, a Lexus GS 450h, a petrol V6 that develops around 300hp and the L112 2sp 2 motor transmission can develop over 270hp and incredible torque using the inverter board developed by Damien Maguire .... all fed into the near unbreakable Ford 4 sp heavy vehicle auto, I'm hoping this will be the motorhome till the end of my days travelling. ....
Solar is good and cheap over this side, so fuel sort of comes down from the sky ....

T1 Terry

 

[suavecarve]

700kwh of battery storage.

Jeez. That's a farm !

 

[T1 Terry]

Jeez. That's a farm !

That is the battery capacity of the Windrose EV prime mover that is claimed to be able to travel 680km with 60 49 tonne total vehicle weight ....
So, using MG's method of distance capabilities on a single charge to real world possible achievement ratio of 75% on a good day and 50% on a not so good day, I might be able to get 1,000km on a charge, 3 days good solar with all 5kW of solar deployed, and we should be good for another 1,000km.
Cut it back to 350kWh, 500km and 1 1/2 days recovery, more than suitable for a Grey Nomad ...., It would be 2 days anyway, getting all that solar deployed, only to pack it up a day later ..... yeah nah ....

T1 Terry

 

[Bam Bam]

Those giant battery trucks make financial sense if you are saving a huge amount of diesel.

If you've got an expensive truck you need to use it heavily to make the economics work.

For a leisure vehicle it is hard to imagine intensive working.

Perhaps the best scenario would be to have leisure vehicles available for hire so they could be used more intensively. But then probably everyone would want them at the same time! Perhaps families could use them in the school holidays and retired people and those without kids could use them the rest of the time. Is there a business case here?

 

[T1 Terry]

Those giant battery trucks make financial sense if you are saving a huge amount of diesel.

If you've got an expensive truck you need to use it heavily to make the economics work.

For a leisure vehicle it is hard to imagine intensive working.

Perhaps the best scenario would be to have leisure vehicles available for hire so they could be used more intensively. But then probably everyone would want them at the same time! Perhaps families could use them in the school holidays and retired people and those without kids could use them the rest of the time. Is there a business case here?

In this case, it is our home at the moment and probably for the next 2 yrs until a replacement house is built. We will still want to travel, it wouldn't be to make money, it would be so we could still afford to travel ....

T1 Terry

 

[Bam Bam]

In this case, it is our home at the moment and probably for the next 2 yrs until a replacement house is built. We will still want to travel, it wouldn't be to make money, it would be so we could still afford to travel ....

T1 Terry

Just trying to imagine future business models etc.

For now we've got these motors - might as well make use of them if there is no obvious alternative. Better to electrify the priority areas first, like cars and heating and do other things as and when it makes sense.

Interesting with electric motorhomes that the high-voltage battery would be used to power the lower-voltage equipment. I guess it would effectively do so indirectly through a 12V or 48V system, just as happens with cars.

 

[T1 Terry]

Just trying to imagine future business models etc.

For now we've got these motors - might as well make use of them if there is no obvious alternative. Better to electrify the priority areas first, like cars and heating and do other things as and when it makes sense.

Interesting with electric motorhomes that the high-voltage battery would be used to power the lower-voltage equipment. I guess it would effectively do so indirectly through a 12V or 48V system, just as happens with cars.

Yes, but on a bigger scale. If/when we go that way, we will probably switch to a 48VDC house battery, or use the likes of the MG V2L system to power the AC side and run the 12V stuff from the vehicle 12V system that the DC to DC takes care of the charging of that ..... Maybe keep 200Ah of the 600Ah we have as a house battery at the moment ......

T1 Terry

 

[wattmatters]

Those giant battery trucks make financial sense if you are saving a huge amount of diesel.

It's not as simple as that. I wish it were but there are still significant cost barriers that operators of diesel fleets don't have, namely the cost of (re)fuelling infrastructure.

For electric to make sense it requires a dense network of charging infrastructure suitable for trucks so that they can be time efficient with their operation.

That heavy vehicle charging infrastructure unfortunately just doesn't exist (versus simply buying diesel where truck fuelling stations already exist pretty much everywhere) and so truck companies wanting to go electric need to provide their own supporting infrastructure.

And that is VERY expensive. It also means you are significantly limited in where and how far you can haul.

Trial pours cold water on current EV truck viability despite diesel price hike

A 2.5-year trial of an electric truck in SA's forestry industry has concluded with the truck now parked, finding it was able to do the job but wasn't cost effective, even with high fuel prices.

www.abc.net.au

The transition will happen but we are decades away from a lived reality of dropping our road haulage off diesel.

 

[T1 Terry]

It's not as simple as that. I wish it were but there are still significant cost barriers that operators of diesel fleets don't have, namely the cost of (re)fuelling infrastructure.

For electric to make sense it requires a dense network of charging infrastructure suitable for trucks so that they can be time efficient with their operation.

That heavy vehicle charing infrastructure unfortunately just doesn't exist (versus simply buying diesel where truck fuelling stations already exist pretty much everywhere) and so truck companies wanting to go electric need to provide their own supporting infrastructure.

And that is VERY expensive. It also means you are significantly limited in where and how far you can haul.

Trial pours cold water on current EV truck viability despite diesel price hike

A 2.5-year trial of an electric truck in SA's forestry industry has concluded with the truck now parked, finding it was able to do the job but wasn't cost effective, even with high fuel prices.

www.abc.net.au

The transition will happen but we are decades away from a lived reality of dropping our road haulage off diesel.

Any reason why the Windrose dual CCS2 charging wouldn't work? One truck charging like it was two EVs, we can't do that now?

T1 Terry

 

[Gomev]

And on a similarish topic big mining in Australia. - Video opens at appropriate point.

 

[Bam Bam]

It's not as simple as that. I wish it were but there are still significant cost barriers that operators of diesel fleets don't have, namely the cost of (re)fuelling infrastructure.

For electric to make sense it requires a dense network of charging infrastructure suitable for trucks so that they can be time efficient with their operation.

That heavy vehicle charging infrastructure unfortunately just doesn't exist (versus simply buying diesel where truck fuelling stations already exist pretty much everywhere) and so truck companies wanting to go electric need to provide their own supporting infrastructure.

And that is VERY expensive. It also means you are significantly limited in where and how far you can haul.

Yeah, they are transitioning in Germany but I think the government are subsidising the transition.

The assumption has been that these would be used for point-to-point initially with depot charging.

The Elektro-trucker guy in Germany can unhook his trailer and use car chargers. The head unit has the same footprint as a car. Leaving a trailer near a charger might not be so easy in the UK. But if you can use car chargers you've got a lot more options.

 

[johnb80]

I'm pretty sure I saw this week Truck Chargers are being installed in a few places, 1.5 MW, that's quite a charge rate!

I quite like the idea of the catenary system being trialled in Germany. Trucks on motorways and major routes can connect onto a catenary system to charge the batteries and drive the vehicle along. Trucks can regen whilst descending back into the overhead lines to help others climbing hills etc. A truck can leave the catenary to overtake a slower truck, re-joining the catenary after to continue running off the overhead lines. When they leave the motorway / major road they have circa 300 miles of range in the batteries.

 

[Everest]

I quite like the idea of the catenary system being trialled in Germany

LOL.. Back to my childhood then...

 

[wattmatters]

Any reason why the Windrose dual CCS2 charging wouldn't work? One truck charging like it was two EVs, we can't do that now?

T1 Terry

It's a forestry truck, don't know if a Windrose is built for that sort of duty.

The truck they used ended up with an effective 200 km range. That's just not going to cut it. A truck sitting there not moving its load or unable to deliver is losing money.

As to charging, we simply don't have the charge stations. You can't pull a B-double into a Tesla supercharger. Heck it's hard enough when you have a bike carrier on the back.

So for now it only works for those businesses who invest in their own charging infrastructure, which limits them to runs that are relatively short out and back jobs, or have the same point to point runs within range and with charging infrastructure at each end. That's a small sub-set of the haulage market.

It will require truck stops with dozens of charge stations like we have diesel bowsers now. Every 100 km. Each charge station is a six figure sum. Multiply by 12-20 stations or more at each stop. That sort of power delivery is not a simple task on our highways.

The absolute margin on the electrical energy delivered is small compared with fuel, so who is going to invest in such things? Fuel delivery infrastructure is wholly privately owned and built. There is a $ return for investing in it. Unless there is a $ to be made investing in charging infrastructure then who will build it?

A large number of the regular EV DC charging sites built in the last couple of years have been subsidised by state govts. Without that we would be struggling to do many roads trips.

 

[wattmatters]

But if you can use car chargers you've got a lot more options.

A Windrose truck has a 729 kWh battery. No trucker is going to wait for hours to refill enroute at a regular EV DC charge station. And what happens to the trucks waiting in line?

Stops that can coincide with a scheduled break make sense (as they do for the rest of us) but the charge rate will need to be a lot faster than EV charge stations are designed for.

It's all technically solvable, the problem is who pays for it?

 

[wattmatters]

BHP/Bluescope is trialling an electric semi for a regular known steel product run from Wollongong.

And there's a another company doing a Sydney-Canberra delivery between two warehouses. Delivers boxes of dunny paper.

For known and controlled delivery environments it can work. But we are long way from long haulage requirements.