Why are motorway services fast chargers so unreliable?

[dgs99]

Stopped off at Gloucetser services yesterday for a top up at 40% to complete my journey. There were only two stations available, however, after trying to connect it was apparent that both were unusable despite telephoning the helpline, who said I had to wait until the left hand charger had completed its charge before they could reset it.
Gave up and carried on to Michael Woods services, again a problem with the Applegreen Electric charger, this time it would read and accept my card and connect but would not initiate charging process. So tried a Tesla charger, having had a software up grade last week. That woud connect but also would not charge. Went back to Applegreen Electric but by now there were at least two other cars having problems connecting. Tried a different one and at last it worked. Why are there so many problems with these car chargers, it now seems endemic and I seldom get a straightforward connection, but luckily most of my charging is done at home.

 

[jgpev]

Did you lock the doors of the car before attempting the charge? I find especially Ionity will NOT work if the doors of my MG5 LR PFL are NOT locked. Tesla normally works for me either way (I have the software update).

 

[dgs99]

Yes tried, locking/unlocking. I think my point is that my home charger is 100% reliable, I have never had any charging issues with it at any time, but there is always some issue with a motorway charger.
Either the card reader wont work, or the car connects or wont start charging, or finishes charging but wont release the charger. You would have thought by now all the charging issues would have been resolved.

 

[maskull]

Tried the ones at Strensham services a couple of weeks ago , charge wouldn't start at all . Tried locking unlocking all the usual tricks ..no dice.
BP at Birmingham NEC if a little slower than expected

 

[MickeySw]

Yes tried, locking/unlocking. I think my point is that my home charger is 100% reliable, I have never had any charging issues with it at any time, but there is always some issue with a motorway charger.

Your ‘home charger’ isn’t actually a charger but an EVSE. It just provides mains to the car’s internal charger (CCU) using simple analog technology.

Rapid DC CCS charging relies on a sophisticated two way communication protocol where a lot more can go wrong…

 

[dgs99]

Why therefore can’t analogue home charger technology be used at motorway services? Just need to link card reader technology to a home charging device.

 

[MickeySw]

Why therefore can’t analogue home charger technology be used at motorway services? Just need to link card reader technology to a home charging device.

Charging speed is the key, on a good day in summer the Rapid CCS charger will outperform your wall box by a factor 10 or more..

 

[xblackwolf90]

My MG5 in particular seems to be particularly temperamental.

Historically, if I started a rapid charge with the charging port unlocked, the charge failed and no amount of effort would get a subsequent charge to start. Powering off for 5 mins seemed to reset it.

I have updated the EVCC and CCU recently and have noticed a significant improvement in reliability regarding rapid charging.

 

[MickeySw]

Historically, if I started a rapid charge with the charging port unlocked, the charge failed and no amount of effort would get a subsequent charge to start.

I assume you mean having the doors unlocked as the charging port itself always locks during a session?

 

[jgpev]

I assume you mean having the doors unlocked as the charging port itself always locks during a session?

Actually, on that note... I've discovered you can actually confuse the car on a type 2 ac charger... if your child decides to rapidly lock/unlock/lock/unlock the car when it's plugged in.

No combination worked until I unplugged the charger, locked the car, waited for it to calm down, and then unlocked it, plugged it in again, etc.

I now make sure the mirrors are done moving before doing the opposite action if, for example, I realise I've managed to forget something in the car when I've just locked it.

 

[xblackwolf90]

I assume you mean having the doors unlocked as the charging port itself always locks during a session?

Pre update, my charging port would not always automatically lock on rapid chargers.

When starting a charging session before manually locking it, charging would often fail to start. Once one session failed, I could never get the charging to start without leaving the car powered off for several minutes.

On facelift models, you can lock the charging port whilst leaving the doors unlocked.

If someone is sat in the car, it's a case of plugging in, tapping "Lock" on the infotainment screen, then starting. This resulted in a 100% success rate on public chargers.

 

[kevin ellard]

Pre update, my charging port would not always automatically lock on rapid chargers.

When starting a charging session before manually locking it, charging would often fail to start. Once one session failed, I could never get the charging to start without leaving the car powered off for several minutes.

On facelift models, you can lock the charging port whilst leaving the doors unlocked.

If someone is sat in the car, it's a case of plugging in, tapping "Lock" on the infotainment screen, then starting. This resulted in a 100% success rate on public chargers.

I've had my FL since Jan 23 and I'd never noticed that. You learn something every day.

 

[opentrail]

Pre update, my charging port would not always automatically lock on rapid chargers.

When starting a charging session before manually locking it, charging would often fail to start. Once one session failed, I could never get the charging to start without leaving the car powered off for several minutes.

On facelift models, you can lock the charging port whilst leaving the doors unlocked.

If someone is sat in the car, it's a case of plugging in, tapping "Lock" on the infotainment screen, then starting. This resulted in a 100% success rate on public chargers.

How odd. I've never had this problem with my facelift 2023 plate. For example, recently I was "tanking up" before heading for the ferry in Rotterdam. It was dark and chucking it down. Just plugged into a 120kW DC charger. Used the Octopus Electroverse App to start the charge from inside the car and bingo. We sat in the car listened to the radio for 30 minutes then stopped the charge, unplugged and we were off. The doors were never locked. Haven't had any updates to the software... wouldn't know how to update it anyway. What's this Tesla update for example?

 

[xblackwolf90]

How odd. I've never had this problem with my facelift 2023 plate. For example, recently I was "tanking up" before heading for the ferry in Rotterdam. It was dark and chucking it down. Just plugged into a 120kw DC charger. Used the Octopus Electroverse App to start the charge from inside the car and bingo. We sat in the car listened to the radio for 30 minutes then stopped the charge, unplugged and we were off. The doors were never locked. Haven't had any updates to the software... wouldn't know how to update it anyway. What's this Tesla update for example?

Glad it's all working fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Updates are officially dealer only, although I did write a guide on how to update it yourself.

The "Tesla update" is a software update for the EVCC module that allows an MG5 to charge on Tesla Superchargers open to all EVs. If you don't need to use these then there's no benefit in having the update installed.

 

[ALANB]

Why therefore can’t analogue home charger technology be used at motorway services? Just need to link card reader technology to a home charging device.

For AC charging (Home Charging or Type2) this uses the onboard charger to convert the AC to DC for the car battery being able to take the charge (the battery and car motor are DC). AC is better to move over large distances and is also easier to make. For DC charging (Rapid) essentially the rapid charger bypasses the onboard charger and goes straight to the battery. The CCS2 technology used for DC essentially uses some of the same communication to the car connections but has the extra 2 big power pins. The highest AC charging you will generally see is 22 kW which is using 3 phase AC to get to 22 kW but your car must have an onboard charger that can handle that, plus the cable to connect must have a 3 phase capability.

 

[opentrail]

For AC charging (Home Charging or Type2) this uses the onboard charger to convert the AC to DC for the car battery being able to take the charge (the battery and car motor are DC). AC is better to move over large distances and is also easier to make. For DC charging (Rapid) essentially the rapid charger bypasses the onboard charger and goes straight to the battery. The CCS2 technology used for DC essentially uses some of the same communication to the car connections but has the extra 2 big power pins. The highest AC charging you will generally see is 22 kWh which is using 3 phase AC to get to 22 kWH but your car must have an onboard charger that can handle that, plus the cable to connect must have a 3 phase capability.

I get it. What is the maximum capability of the MG5 LR (facelift) onboard charger? Is it 7kW or 22 kW? I've plugged into many public chargers that supposedly provide 22 kW with a cable that is sold as 3 phase compatible but only ever get under 7kW ,in fact I've had 3 or 4 sometimes to my disappointment. Has anyone on here managed to get 22kW charging successfully?

 

[MickeySw]

I get it. What is the maximum capability of the MG5 LR (facelift) onboard charger? Is it 7kw or 22kw? Ive plugged into many public chargers that supposedly provide 22kwh with a cable that is sold as 3 phase compatible but only ever get under 7kwh,in fact I've had 3 or 4 sometimes to my disappointment. Has anyone on here managed to get 22kw charging successfully?

A MG5 Trophy can AC charge @11kW from a 22kW EVSE provided you have a 3 phase cable that is rated at least 11kW (16 A).

 

[ALANB]

I get it. What is the maximum capability of the MG5 LR (facelift) onboard charger? Is it 7kw or 22kw? Ive plugged into many public chargers that supposedly provide 22kwh with a cable that is sold as 3 phase compatible but only ever get under 7kwh,in fact I've had 3 or 4 sometimes to my disappointment. Has anyone on here managed to get 22kw charging successfully?

MG Trophy 11 kW max. on AC

 

[xblackwolf90]

I get it. What is the maximum capability of the MG5 LR (facelift) onboard charger? Is it 7kw or 22kw? Ive plugged into many public chargers that supposedly provide 22kwh with a cable that is sold as 3 phase compatible but only ever get under 7kwh,in fact I've had 3 or 4 sometimes to my disappointment. Has anyone on here managed to get 22kw charging successfully?

The car is capable of 11kW.

BUT....the included cable is only capable of 7kW.

Also worth noting is that the included single phase, 7kW cable will only get you around 3kW on an 11kW charger.

In summary with the included cable:

Charge Point Max

Max Speed Possible

7kW	7kW
11kW	3kW
22kW	7kW

To achieve the max speed possible in AC public chargers, you will require a 32A cable capable of 22kW (if you get an 11kW cable, you'll only get around 3kW on a 7kW charge point).

I picked up a used Menekkes branded cable off eBay for £40 and can now get the maximum possible at all AC charge points.

 

[opentrail]

The car is capable of 11kW.

BUT....the included cable is only capable of 7kW.

Also worth noting is that the included single phase, 7kW cable will only get you around 3kW on an 11kW charger.

In summary with the included cable:

Charge Point Max

Max Speed Possible

7kW	7kW
11kW	3kW
22kW	7kW

To achieve the max speed possible in AC public chargers, you will require a 32A cable capable of 22kW (if you get an 11kW cable, you'll only get around 3kW on a 7kW charge point).

I picked up a used Menekkes branded cable off eBay for £40 and can now get the maximum possible at all AC charge points.

Many thanks for clarifying. I’ve been cursing those chargers for months, lol. I will buy a new cable because there are more 22kW competitively priced public chargers around than rapid even though I would only get a max of 11kW.