ZS EV First Service Battery State of Health?

[Data]

Just had my first service carried out on the ZS & everything is fine. My battery SOH is showing as 100% which of course is very pleasing & tbh I was expecting. My dongle showed this prior to the service.

Out of interest I'm wondering the following;

Firstly, just how many of us get a 100% SOH report at the first service? In other words is it common. Just want a flavour of what's happening.

If you DIDN'T get a 100% battery report, what did you get?

Secondly, do you feel it matters what your battery SOH is at the first service? Tell me your views please, and yes we've had some discussions on various aspects of this elsewhere but it's this first service SOH that is of primary interest here please.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Alb]

I had 100% SOH at my 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th service!
Didn't seem to have any impact when I sold the car however.
This was an MG5 PFL but the principle is the same.

 

[Data]

I had 100% SOH at my 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th service!
Didn't seem to have any impact when I sold the car however.
This was an MG5 PFL but the principle is the same.

Thanks Alb. That's great.

 

[Paulie68]

Thanks Alb. That's great.

It's just a nonsense figure from a lazy or incompetent dealer. No real state of battery health is 100% after a year of use or more, whatever the mileage, lol!

Also, I don't think it really matters, will probably really be somewhere in the upper 90's at this point in your cars life.

 

[Data]

Why lazy or incompetent Paulie? Yes, all batteries deteriorated from new. But it's the buffer area that is doing that first & that won't if I'm lucky show up for quite some time. To assist this I do a full & proper equalisation at regular intervals which definitely slows degradation.

 

[Lovemyev]

Just had my first service carried out on the ZS & everything is fine. My battery SOH is showing as 100% which of course is very pleasing & tbh I was expecting. My dongle showed this prior to the service.

Out of interest I'm wondering the following;

Firstly, just how many of us get a 100% SOH report at the first service? In other words is it common. Just want a flavour of what's happening.

If you DIDN'T get a 100% battery report, what did you get?

Secondly, do you feel it matters what your battery SOH is at the first service? Tell me your views please, and yes we've had some discussions on various aspects of this elsewhere but it's this first service SOH that is of primary interest here please.

Thanks everyone.

How many miles has your car covered @Data
First service I expect it will be fairly low.
Given this, I would not expect anything less than 100% SOH tbh.
Of course there is the temptation by the dealer to write 100% on the service sheet because it’s so new.
Therefore I always asked for a screen shot of their diagnosis computer as well, the dealer kindly obliged.
The screen shot was attached to the service “tick sheet” and cleared displayed the SOH of the traction battery and VIN number of our car in the shot.

 

[Data]

How many miles has your car covered @Data

Just 6,000. No miles at all. Likely to be much more this year.

 

[Paulie68]

Why lazy or incompetent Paulie? Yes, all batteries deteriorated from new. But it's the buffer area that is doing that first & that won't if I'm lucky show up for quite some time. To assist this I do a full & proper equalisation at regular intervals which definitely slows degradation.

Because they do have access to the real figure, but clearly rather than bother to actually get that, have just written in 100%.

 

[hmadsen]

We also got 100% at the first service, but i am fairly sure, when i read the SoH figure about ½ a year ago using the eZS app, it was below that, so unless these are selfhealing batteries, the SoH they give you is bogus.

 

[Data]

It does depend on charging & equalisation habits too. You get a slightly lower figure but then after a couple of equalisation charges it can be better. That's why equalisation charging is so important. Also battery temperature is important when checking soh. It can also improves with a slightly warmer battery.

 

[Data]

Because they do have access to the real figure, but clearly rather than bother to actually get that, have just written in 100%.

Yes, I have a print out with all the battery data on it.

 

[Paulie68]

Yes, I have a print out with all the battery data on it.

Maybe they use a buffer at the top, so it will continue to show 100% until capacity drops to a certain point. No battery will still be at 100% after a year and 6k miles, so it's a useless data point to just give "good feelings" about the battery for the user/owner.

A real figure is what you want, then you can see how the battery is really holding up over time. There isn't any concern in general with MG batteries though, very high mileage cars are still showing in the region of 90%.

If you had a LEAF though, that would be a different story...!

 

[Data]

Paulie, all lithium batteries use an upper & lower buffer. The figure the garage gives you is as good as you'll get & all you need. These buffers are accessible by the cars BMS but only when carrying out a full & proper equalisation charge to 100%. Throughout the life of the battery a small upper & lower buffer is continuously maintained. The cars BMS sheds cell voltage into the buffer areas on this type of equalisation as it equalises each cell. Without these buffers no proper 100% cell equalisation can take place. After carrying out a full & proper equalisation a cars range is at maximum & usually a bit higher than a normal 100% charge.

Paulie, we have an 11 yr old leaf in the family. It is used by my niece who is a midwife. Perfect for her job. She's had it for over two years, bought secondhand in immaculate condition. It's done well over 100,000 miles & battery SOH was 89%. We double checked this with the dealer who confirmed it. I also checked it with a dongle suitable for Nissan's. Remember that Nissan's don't have very good battery management either, no cooling or heating. So this is great. It still has very good range indeed. It is the cars original battery too. Nissan say they have only replaced a tiny number of batteries as they have just not been needed.

 

[Paulie68]

Paulie, all lithium batteries use an upper & lower buffer. These buffers are accessible by the cars BMS but only when carrying out a full & proper equalisation charge to 100%. The cars BMS sheds cell voltage into the buffer areas on this type of equalisation as it equalises each cell. Without these buffers no proper 100% cell equalisation can take place. After carrying out a full & proper equalisation a cars range is at maximum & usually a bit higher than a normal 100% charge.

Paulie, we have an 11 yr old leaf in the family. It is used by my niece as a midwife. Perfect for her job. She's had it for over two years, bought secondhand in immaculate condition. It's done well over 100,000 miles & battery SOH was 89%. We double checked this with the dealer who confirmed it. I also checked it with a dongle suitable for Nissan's. Remember that Nissan's don't have very good battery management either, no cooling or heating. So this is great. It still has very good range indeed. It is the cars original battery too. Nissan say they have only replaced a tiny number of batteries as they have just not been needed.

Hi Data, I'm a retired EE with lithium battery experience. I built my own EV back in 2007/8 before any commercial cars existed. I've also repaired and changed out LEAF batteries and currently own a LEAF. So I don't need to be told how to suck eggs! It's OK, I know you meant no offence, as I could just be your average EV owner for all you knew!

The original 24kWh LEAF batteries are much better than the later 30/40kWh packs used, which do degrade much faster. We have a Mk1 LEAF too, it's a great runabout, especially now it has a 40kWh battery upgrade. Most 30/40kWh LEAFS won't get anywhere close to 100k miles with a battery still above 80%. Leafspy is the only non dealer tool that will give you the real SOH of a LEAF battery.

Anyway I wasn't referring to the upper and lower voltage ranges of the battery that are kept well away from for longevity. I was referring to the information that dealers give out to retail customers, who on the whole know nothing about batteries, to keep them happy. In some cases this won't begin to register anything less than 100% until the batteries have already reduced in overall capacity by a given margin, maybe up to 5% or so, rendering the information useless to anyone who would like to know their actual real rate of degradation.

 

[Data]

Just to reassure you Paulie, there are quite a few MK1 & 2 Leafs with much more than a 100k on the clock with their original batteries. Several owners on YT too with those cars. I am auto EE & mechanicals. You are right, most folks don't understand their batteries but frankly, they don't need to. It's only nerds like you & me that take any notice of this stuff!

 

[Paulie68]

Oh, I agree, LEAFS can go on for ever, but mostly their batteries are down to around 80% or less by 100k miles, 30/40kWh are anyway, not so much the 24's, if they've been managed well. Lack of proper cooling cooks the cell modules in the centre of the rear stack in the battery over time, as there's nowhere for heat build up to escape to. I don't know how the 60kWh (or so) cars hold up, their battery packaging format is quite different to the others.

 

[Data]

The later ones are fine even at high mileage. They have better BMS.

 

[Data]

Just as an addon Paulie, we have 5 EV's in the family including my ZS & the Leaf. We have an E-Niro with 103,000 on the clock & 94% SOH. An ID3 with 88,000 & 97% SOH, an id4 with 60,000 & 98% SOH. All NMC batteries. Two friends have LR ZS EV's with 98,000 & 91% SOH & 108,000 miles & 94% SOH respectively. I think this is good news for us all.

 

[Everest]

No battery will still be at 100% after a year and 6k miles, so it's a useless data point to just give "good feelings" about the battery for the user/owner.

Agree. It's all down to managing the expectations of the customer. But for me, being told a battery is still at 100% SOH, after 'n' months rings an alarm bell, that I'm not being told something valid and/or useful.

It's only nerds like you & me that take any notice of this stuff!

And me

An ID3 with 88,000 & 97% SOH, an id4 with 60,000 & 98% SOH. All NMC batteries.

Yes, that's all good news. Genuine question... how exactly have you measured that value with the VW's? Are you retrieving the "HV Battery max energy content" (OBD2 Header 710 & Request 22 2A B2) and then making an assumption about the upper and lower buffers? Or something else? I'm also trying to accurately measure SOH for our ID.