MG4 Range

[Alex1985]

Look at ICE car efficiency in winter you'll see around a 20% drop in their range due to the fact cold weather increases rolling resistance on roads, also cold denser air uses more energy to combust than warm air.

What are you combusting?

 

[Buster72]

Unfortunately our suppliers are tied into contracts (hedging) which sets the price for at least a year, so electricity is only going to get more expensive, the peak is April and then it gradually falls over the year but not to levels before the pandemic. The industry are stating 80pkw from Oct 2023. Suppliers that have only hedged for a year will be in a position to then offer cheaper prices but it is also at that point when the price cap comes to an end, it’s nothing but financial pain for everyone!

Very interesting. Thank you.

 

[Ian Key]

Not sure I quite agree with your ice figures, if a comparable sized diesel car is used to calculate the cost it makes the margin much smaller…..golf 2.0 tdi (1.6tdi more economical) has a real world average of 50mpg (honest John website) as that is an average and VW quote 67 it is not unreasonable to expect 60 mpg. When I travel from Shropshire to York in an A3 1.4tfsi I always get 56mpg, a diesel will be better.
Based on 55mpg and diesel at £1.60ltr (current price Shrewsbury)
200 mile / 55 = 3.6 gallon, cost of diesel gallon £7.20. Journey cost £26, much closer to the ev cost, at 60mpg there is nothing in it. Journey in the A3 petrol…
Petrol cost 1.395ltr or £6.28. Journey cost £22.60, cheaper than ev.
When electricity increases from 53pkw to 92pkw in April I expect rapid chargers will add the extra 40p to the average 70pkw, this is going to make a long journey in an ev really expensive in comparison to an ice.
Of course where an ev wins is in urban driving even when the cost of overnight charging increases you will still be better off but it will be a close run thing with a hybrid.
The best thing though is that pollution is removed from the urban environment and moved to the power stations where it can be more easily dealt with.

Where it gets interesting is to do the same 209 mile journey in a Trophy, which can do it without topping up, on my Economy 7 rate of 13p/kW and doing an average of 3.5m/kW it is only £7.80

 

[siteguru]

Unfortunately our suppliers are tied into contracts (hedging) which sets the price for at least a year, so electricity is only going to get more expensive, the peak is April and then it gradually falls over the year but not to levels before the pandemic. The industry are stating 80pkw from Oct 2023. Suppliers that have only hedged for a year will be in a position to then offer cheaper prices but it is also at that point when the price cap comes to an end, it’s nothing but financial pain for everyone!

That could all be easily legislated for ... but the current government (and likely the current opposition/next government) are unlikely to do so as the high price = higher tax revenue.

 

[davz]

That could all be easily legislated for ... but the current government (and likely the current opposition/next government) are unlikely to do so as the high price = higher tax revenue.

I think the govt would have hard time legislating for that as the agreements are business contracts

 

[pharrison84]

Unfortunately our suppliers are tied into contracts (hedging) which sets the price for at least a year, so electricity is only going to get more expensive, the peak is April and then it gradually falls over the year but not to levels before the pandemic. The industry are stating 80pkw from Oct 2023. Suppliers that have only hedged for a year will be in a position to then offer cheaper prices but it is also at that point when the price cap comes to an end, it’s nothing but financial pain for everyone!

Where are you getting that 80p/kWh prediction from?

Cornwall Insight's latest prediction from earlier this month suggests around 40.91p come October:

Drop in wholesale energy prices sees price cap predictions fall below the Energy Price Guarantee for second half of 2023 - Cornwall Insight

The latest forecasts for the Default Tariff Cap (price cap) released by Cornwall Insight, have shown energy bills for a typical household are predicted to be below the government’s Energy Price Guarantee (EPG) from July (Q3 2022) this year.

www.cornwall-insight.com

 

[davz]

Where are you getting that 80p/kWh prediction from?

Cornwall Insight's latest prediction from earlier this month suggests around 40.91p come October:

Drop in wholesale energy prices sees price cap predictions fall below the Energy Price Guarantee for second half of 2023 - Cornwall Insight

The latest forecasts for the Default Tariff Cap (price cap) released by Cornwall Insight, have shown energy bills for a typical household are predicted to be below the government’s Energy Price Guarantee (EPG) from July (Q3 2022) this year.

www.cornwall-insight.com

Cornwall insight are predicting the wholesale price in October but that has nothing to do with the contracts that the energy suppliers have signed via hedging, so the prices are already known. Unless an energy supplier has only contracted for say the next six months, but then there is the problem of the margin, where due to legislation the cheapest energy supplier has to sell at the same price as the most expensive eg wind farms became the cheapest creator of energy but gas/oil powered became very expensive but due to the legislation the wind farms are not allowed to undercut, to prevent the power stations going under and there not being enough energy for the country…..hence the margin. Wind farms are currently making a large fortune but the uk only owns one wind farm so the foreign owned wind farms have taken billions out of the uk economy and added to the inflationary problems. The crown did rather well last year as the wind farms have to pay a lease charge on the first 12 miles of seabed as it belongs to the crown estate. Revenue was approx £350 million last year but this is given to the state who then return 25% tax free = £87m for the king. The 12 mile seabed is now valued at £5billion for just wind and wave power not including the continental shelf where oil and gas exploration takes place. It’s a very profitable land/sea scape but you can be assured that the population of the uk are not benefiting from it
Info from the English and Welsh institute of chartered accountants.

 

[Les burrows]

Not sure I quite agree with your ice figures, if a comparable sized diesel car is used to calculate the cost it makes the margin much smaller…..golf 2.0 tdi (1.6tdi more economical) has a real world average of 50mpg (honest John website) as that is an average and VW quote 67 it is not unreasonable to expect 60 mpg. When I travel from Shropshire to York in an A3 1.4tfsi I always get 56mpg, a diesel will be better.
Based on 55mpg and diesel at £1.60ltr (current price Shrewsbury)
200 mile / 55 = 3.6 gallon, cost of diesel gallon £7.20. Journey cost £26, much closer to the ev cost, at 60mpg there is nothing in it. Journey in the A3 petrol…
Petrol cost 1.395ltr or £6.28. Journey cost £22.60, cheaper than ev.
When electricity increases from 53pkw to 92pkw in April I expect rapid chargers will add the extra 40p to the average 70pkw, this is going to make a long journey in an ev really expensive in comparison to an ice.
Of course where an ev wins is in urban driving even when the cost of overnight charging increases you will still be better off but it will be a close run thing with a hybrid.
The best thing though is that pollution is removed from the urban environment and moved to the power stations where it can be more easily dealt with.

Ok davz I’m not disputing what you have written all I was trying to show in my post was what it cost me to do a 200 mile trip in the MG4 mainly on the motorway against what it might have cost in my Skoda superb 2.0tdi I know there are many newer vehicles today that can do more miles to a gallon but mine was around the 50-53 mark may be a little bit less in the cold spell so I took 50 as an average for me in an ICE vehicle

Where you get 53-92pkw from I don’t understand first time I have seen them figures, I think the price cap at the moment is 34pkw I’m below that at the moment as I’m still on a fix for a little while yet thank god.
And you have some very cheap fuel down in Shrewsbury for sure I don’t pay much attention to fuel prices these days as I don’t buy it but passing a fuel station near me the other day diesel was £1:72 and on that same trip on that trip the other day on the motorway services i was £1:93.9 no I would buy that ether that’s for sure, we will never be without electricity that’s for certain never mind about cost that a Separate issue, but fossil fuel we have very little or no control over I can remember many times in the past queueing for hours for petrol to get me to work and them times could well return but not for me thank you.
All cars are expensive to run nowadays but I still do not regret going EV and won’t unless I have to for reasons beyond my control be returning to anything ICE especially not a Hybrid.
Les

 

[Buster72]

Ok davz I’m not disputing what you have written all I was trying to show in my post was what it cost me to do a 200 mile trip in the MG4 mainly on the motorway against what it might have cost in my Skoda superb 2.0tdi I know there are many newer vehicles today that can do more miles to a gallon but mine was around the 50-53 mark may be a little bit less in the cold spell so I took 50 as an average for me in an ICE vehicle

Where you get 53-92pkw from I don’t understand first time I have seen them figures, I think the price cap at the moment is 34pkw I’m below that at the moment as I’m still on a fix for a little while yet thank god.
And you have some very cheap fuel down in Shrewsbury for sure I don’t pay much attention to fuel prices these days as I don’t buy it but passing a fuel station near me the other day diesel was £1:72 and on that same trip on that trip the other day on the motorway services i was £1:93.9 no I would buy that ether that’s for sure, we will never be without electricity that’s for certain never mind about cost that a Separate issue, but fossil fuel we have very little or no control over I can remember many times in the past queueing for hours for petrol to get me to work and them times could well return but not for me thank you.
All cars are expensive to run nowadays but I still do not regret going EV and won’t unless I have to for reasons beyond my control be returning to anything ICE especially not a Hybrid.
Les

Electric supply is as you say capped at 34p/kw and will be so up to April.

 

[Morg]

I've had a bit of epiphany. We all know an EV is a lifestyle choice, and the MG4 is not the car many desire, but the one you can afford.
So I've taken a step back and looked at my 4 again.
It's a great looking car, it's comfortable, it's roomy, and it's affordable.
So the epiphany?
I've placed one of my grand daughters small Paw Patrol figures on the steering boss, just where the battery percentage and range is, so I can't see them. I've driven it like I used to drive, used the rapid acceleration to burn away from traffic lights, do a few very rapid overtakes, pushed it hard through a lot of bends and generally smiled a lot more.
And when the dashboard lady tells me I'm low on battery I'll fill MG up, until then let's just drive......

 

[stevegus]

Thing is, in 7 years time its not a lifestyle choice, its a reality.

I find the mpg meters on my ICE cars are also distracting in that they tend to make you drive slower to get the mpg up to something acceptable.

On an EV if you are driving locally with a 280 nominal mfr quoted range, i Dont expect to be that limited on the basis of cost of “fuel”.

Where the clock watching is more of an issue is perhaps a long drive on a weekend away. There are however rapid chargers on the routes id likely take so the occasional stupid public charter costs wont be a big hit.

But i agree. Drive the car and stop the range watching - at least when driving locally

 

[Les burrows]

I've had a bit of epiphany. We all know an EV is a lifestyle choice, and the MG4 is not the car many desire, but the one you can afford.
So I've taken a step back and looked at my 4 again.
It's a great looking car, it's comfortable, it's roomy, and it's affordable.
So the epiphany?
I've placed one of my grand daughters small Paw Patrol figures on the steering boss, just where the battery percentage and range is, so I can't see them. I've driven it like I used to drive, used the rapid acceleration to burn away from traffic lights, do a few very rapid overtakes, pushed it hard through a lot of bends and generally smiled a lot more.
And when the dashboard lady tells me I'm low on battery I'll fill MG up, until then let's just drive......

Hi Morg I agree with some of your points Mg4 is a great drive,no one as any disputes with that I don’t think, and yeh you paid your money and have the car it’s not perfect and as it’s problems but it’s a good car in general, I to now have got to the stage of when it needs to be charged I charge it probably less than you as I don’t drive the way you do so very likely get more miles than you out of it and on the whole just enjoy it, i hope that MG via the dealers get the issues with it sorted out than it should be a Great car.

Just one thing you say when the lady say I’m low on battery, what lady is this, has been puzzling me since we had the car.
In my MG5 Mk1 and now Trophy when I get down to 25% around 50 miles left I get a warning bong and the battery symbol turns red and it will warn me again at 25 miles and 10 miles maybe 5% by now.
But in the wife’s MG4 none of that, no battery warning has ever been seen in that car as far as I know and that’s been down to 10% a couple of times, so are we missing something ? and is this something else to go on the dealer fix list.

And if you don’t mind I will throw this question open to the forum for comments
Les

 

[stevegus]

Ok davz I’m not disputing what you have written all I was trying to show in my post was what it cost me to do a 200 mile trip in the MG4 mainly on the motorway against what it might have cost in my Skoda superb 2.0tdi I know there are many newer vehicles today that can do more miles to a gallon but mine was around the 50-53 mark may be a little bit less in the cold spell so I took 50 as an average for me in an ICE vehicle

Where you get 53-92pkw from I don’t understand first time I have seen them figures, I think the price cap at the moment is 34pkw I’m below that at the moment as I’m still on a fix for a little while yet thank god.
And you have some very cheap fuel down in Shrewsbury for sure I don’t pay much attention to fuel prices these days as I don’t buy it but passing a fuel station near me the other day diesel was £1:72 and on that same trip on that trip the other day on the motorway services i was £1:93.9 no I would buy that ether that’s for sure, we will never be without electricity that’s for certain never mind about cost that a Separate issue, but fossil fuel we have very little or no control over I can remember many times in the past queueing for hours for petrol to get me to work and them times could well return but not for me thank you.
All cars are expensive to run nowadays but I still do not regret going EV and won’t unless I have to for reasons beyond my control be returning to anything ICE especially not a Hybrid.
Les

The current costs where i am on EDF economy 7 tarrifs is around 8p a unit BUT around 50p in the daytime. So particularly people dping high miles like i use to - 100 a day- this could make sense

Octopus have a slightly better deal at 12p and 42p for a 4 hour slot.

Once all the daft electricity pricing goes away , the decent ev tarrifs will come back.

Im not sure where everyone is getting cheap diesel- its still around 1.69 here having only recently dropped from 1.80

 

[Cocijo]

I do hope that I’m wrong but I don’t see the high electricity prices ever dropping back to sensible levels. High prices are here to stay I think.
As an over-arching strategy net-zero comes with a high cost to is all - this message is not really fully conveyed but the shift from fossil will be costly.

 

[Alex1985]

How many people rely on expensive public chargers to fuel their ev? Yes I have to use them sometimes to top up on a long run but most of the time I use my home charger on Octopus Go at 7.5p per kw.
All in all it works out much, much cheaper than petrol or diesel.

 

[stevegus]

I do hope that I’m wrong but I don’t see the high electricity prices ever dropping back to sensible levels. High prices are here to stay I think.
As an over-arching strategy net-zero comes with a high cost to is all - this message is not really fully conveyed but the shift from fossil will be costly.

I think they will come down somewhere close but probably not to where they were as inflation alone will push them up.

The thing is, at the moment the only EV tarriff i can find is with Octopus. BG and EDF for example are not allowing new subscribers.

At some point better tarriffs will come back.

Also, consider what govt will do once 2030 comes. They wont want a scenario where we are like Cuba, running 50 year old cars.

I suspect one way to ween people over to evs will be petrol and diesel and the road tax on them, increasing year on year. This will change the maths and people will be forced to move over.

 

[Cocijo]

How many people rely on expensive public chargers to fuel their ev? Yes I have to use them sometimes to top up on a long run but most of the time I use my home charger on Octopus Go at 7.5p per kw.
All in all it works out much, much cheaper than petrol or diesel.

That’s great for you but a lot of people do rely solely on public charging as they don’t have a driveway or access to a home charger. As EV’s become more commonplace more and more will rely solely on public charging.

 

[stevegus]

How many people rely on expensive public chargers to fuel their ev? Yes I have to use them sometimes to top up on a long run but most of the time I use my home charger on Octopus Go at 7.5p per kw.
All in all it works out much, much cheaper than petrol or diesel.

You must have a long existing deal with octopus

Im getting quote’s today of 12p and 42p outside of the 4 hour 12p rate

As we use 12-20 units a day (without an ev) and prob do 200 miles a week i dont think it looks economical to change at those costs

Find your Octopus Go rates

The UK's most awarded energy supplier. We're doing energy better - for you and the environment.

octopus.energy

 

[TheMacDon]

You must have a long existing deal with octopus

Im getting quote’s today of 12p and 42p outside of the 4 hour 12p rate

As we use 12-20 units a day (without an ev) and prob do 200 miles a week i dont think it looks economical to change at those costs

Find your Octopus Go rates

The UK's most awarded energy supplier. We're doing energy better - for you and the environment.

octopus.energy

We moved onto the same 12p rate when we had the home charger installed at the beginning of the month; I worked out (hopefully correctly) that the cross over point for Octopus Go being more cost effective was charging the car for 71kw per month - so bit of a no brainer to move tariff. Turns out our washing machine, dryer and dishwasher all have timers (who knew?? ) so they're running overnight now as well.

 

[Cocijo]

You must have a long existing deal with octopus

Im getting quote’s today of 12p and 42p outside of the 4 hour 12p rate

As we use 12-20 units a day (without an ev) and prob do 200 miles a week i dont think it looks economical to change at those costs

Find your Octopus Go rates

The UK's most awarded energy supplier. We're doing energy better - for you and the environment.

octopus.energy

if you are doing around 10k miles a year I would be very surprised if the Go tariff didn’t save you money. The maths is straightforward - a member on here even produced a spreadsheet. Worth doing properly.