Lane Keep Assist love.....

[Ian Key]

I must be missing something. Yes I agree you don't need to indicate if there is no-one to indicate to, but if there is no-one to indicate to why are you changing lanes?

 

[Rolfe]

For one, to leave a motorway by a slip road (that caused LKA to grab the wheel from me on my test drive).

 

[Emgie 4]

I'll bare that in mind the next time someone just pulls out without indicating

Turns out they just didn't see me....

100% agree, one thing for those who don't indicate, and convince yourselves 'I don't need to indicate to an empty road' - BLIND SPOTS, Every car has them however well designed they are , as someone who has also been a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist (and car driver) I cant tell u how many close calls and a few actual collisions I've known of, and unfortunately been involved in, and the excuse almost ALWAYS - I just didn't see you , and before everyone piles in with the bad standard of road discipline that some cyclists and motorcyclists use - and how they often go too fast, that's for another debate. .Lets assume that no-one here actually wants to be in a crash/collide with another road user.

I'll accept the premise that automatically indicating MAY reduce awareness but I can personally vouch a car that indicates before the maneuver gives the other road user 'they just didn't see' extra warning and an opportunity to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
For those advanced driving individuals, there's a reason in motorcycle training they tell you always assume they haven't seen you!
Also the looking twice before maneuvering mantra and the advent of blindspot detectors in cars while both helpful, neither are infallible
Until car manufacturers start making. the pillars from glass, front and rear blindspots will exist, and I would hope everyone understands the basic physics that a 5 - 6" pillar beside you becomes a cars length blindspot 30' away.

And that's the reason to always indicate - even to an 'emoty road' .
For those of you that convince yourselves (justifiably) you are very safe drivers because you have driven many decades without an incident, I sincerely hope that continues, BUT no-one knows what will happen tomorrow, an unblemished driving record could also be seen as form of complacency - human instinct, the longer something doesn't happen to you, the more you will (unconsciously) convince yourself it never will.

 

[siteguru]

In a busy area, where cyclists may be, then of course you should indicate. (As should the cyclists, which they rarely do - and don't get me started on whether or not they obey other road signs and requirements). That's about the only scenario where someone like a cyclist would suddenly emerge into a blind spot. And if you've recently overtaken a cyclist, then you should blummin well know they are there!

So no - I do not agree that blindly indicating is the solution, you need to assess every situation and determine whether indicating serves a purpose (which, with practice, can be done in the time it takes you to move your fingers towards the indicator stalk) ... and advanced drivers (and driving school instructors) think likewise.

 

[bowfer]

100% agree, one thing for those who don't indicate, and convince yourselves 'I don't need to indicate to an empty road' - BLIND SPOTS, Every car has them however well designed they are , as someone who has also been a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist (and car driver) I cant tell u how many close calls and a few actual collisions I've known of, and unfortunately been involved in, and the excuse almost ALWAYS - I just didn't see you , and before everyone piles in with the bad standard of road discipline that some cyclists and motorcyclists use - and how they often go too fast, that's for another debate. .Lets assume that no-one here actually wants to be in a crash/collide with another road user.

I'll accept the premise that automatically indicating MAY reduce awareness but I can personally vouch a car that indicates before the maneuver gives the other road user 'they just didn't see' extra warning and an opportunity to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
For those advanced driving individuals, there's a reason in motorcycle training they tell you always assume they haven't seen you!
Also the looking twice before maneuvering mantra and the advent of blindspot detectors in cars while both helpful, neither are infallible
Until car manufacturers start making. the pillars from glass, front and rear blindspots will exist, and I would hope everyone understands the basic physics that a 5 - 6" pillar beside you becomes a cars length blindspot 30' away.

And that's the reason to always indicate - even to an 'emoty road' .
For those of you that convince yourselves (justifiably) you are very safe drivers because you have driven many decades without an incident, I sincerely hope that continues, BUT no-one knows what will happen tomorrow, an unblemished driving record could also be seen as form of complacency - human instinct, the longer something doesn't happen to you, the more you will (unconsciously) convince yourself it never will.

Good grief, now those of us who don’t indicate on empty roads can’t be trusted to actually know the road is empty….
TBH I’m amazed I made it past ‘advanced driver’ though, I must not be tired.

 

[tsedge]

There are no blind spots if you properly look (mirrors, over the shoulder) and move in your seat to see around any pillars.

Good driving takes concentration, that means avoiding doing anything by rote.

Look, if safe then signal if there's someone who would benefit from it (and wait for them to have seen it), then make your manoeuvre.

There's some terrible driving about where people stick a signal on and immediately move assuming that this means anyone in the way will give way.

 

[Kithmo]

I must be missing something. Yes I agree you don't need to indicate if there is no-one to indicate to, but if there is no-one to indicate to why are you changing lanes?

In my case it's getting in the correct lane on approach to a roundabout when I'm exiting to the right, I indicate when I get closer to the roundabout and on exiting the roundabout.

 

[Captain]

For one, to leave a motorway by a slip road (that caused LKA to grab the wheel from me on my test drive).

FYI

Highway Code:

273
Unless signs indicate that a lane leads directly off the motorway, you will normally leave the motorway by a slip road on your left. You should

• watch for the signs letting you know you are getting near your exit
• move into the left-hand lane well before reaching your exit
• signal left in good time and reduce your speed on the slip road as necessary.

 

[Emgie 4]

I'm delighted to hear there are so many advanced drivers out there
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the merits (or not) of always indicating.

So no - I do not agree that blindly indicating is the solution, you need to assess every situation and determine whether indicating serves a purpose

Never said anything about blindly indicating, all the appropriate visual checks should of course be done aswell, my point was people can, and do make mistakes even with the best of training and attention - that's why it's called human error, and the cause of the vast majority of accidents

Good grief, now those of us who don’t indicate on empty roads can’t be trusted to actually know the road is empty….

Correct, so we're in agreement, glad you got my point

There are no blind spots if you properly look (mirrors, over the shoulder) and move in your seat to see around any pillars.

Sorry but that's just BS, blindspots exist.
Although I fully agree their affect can be greatly reduced with good driving habits.
But mirrors and moving around in your seat don't change the physics of being belted into a forward facing seat restricting movement and 360° visibility
I've yet to see someone look over their shoulder when doing an overtake (not practical anyway), they trust their mirrors which can not see everything, that's just plain physics

There's some terrible driving about where people stick a signal on and immediately move assuming that this means anyone in the way will give way.

Fully agree with this, those people also infuriates me who think that indicating gives them right of way, case in point being how some 'merge' into traffic from a sliproad onto M-ways, they don't seem to understand they have the responsibility to join safely not for others to get out of their way.

 

[Captain]

100% agree, one thing for those who don't indicate, and convince yourselves 'I don't need to indicate to an empty road' - BLIND SPOTS, Every car has them however well designed they are , as someone who has also been a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist (and car driver) I cant tell u how many close calls and a few actual collisions I've known of, and unfortunately been involved in, and the excuse almost ALWAYS - I just didn't see you , and before everyone piles in with the bad standard of road discipline that some cyclists and motorcyclists use - and how they often go too fast, that's for another debate. .Lets assume that no-one here actually wants to be in a crash/collide with another road user.

I'll accept the premise that automatically indicating MAY reduce awareness but I can personally vouch a car that indicates before the maneuver gives the other road user 'they just didn't see' extra warning and an opportunity to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
For those advanced driving individuals, there's a reason in motorcycle training they tell you always assume they haven't seen you!
Also the looking twice before maneuvering mantra and the advent of blindspot detectors in cars while both helpful, neither are infallible
Until car manufacturers start making. the pillars from glass, front and rear blindspots will exist, and I would hope everyone understands the basic physics that a 5 - 6" pillar beside you becomes a cars length blindspot 30' away.

And that's the reason to always indicate - even to an 'emoty road' .
For those of you that convince yourselves (justifiably) you are very safe drivers because you have driven many decades without an incident, I sincerely hope that continues, BUT no-one knows what will happen tomorrow, an unblemished driving record could also be seen as form of complacency - human instinct, the longer something doesn't happen to you, the more you will (unconsciously) convince yourself it never will.

This...

There are no blind spots if you properly look (mirrors, over the shoulder) and move in your seat to see around any pillars.

Good driving takes concentration, that means avoiding doing anything by rote.

Look, if safe then signal if there's someone who would benefit from it (and wait for them to have seen it), then make your manoeuvre.

There's some terrible driving about where people stick a signal on and immediately move assuming that this means anyone in the way will give way.

You've never driven my Jaguar F-Type or Lotus Elise

 

[Rolfe]

FYI

Highway Code:

273
Unless signs indicate that a lane leads directly off the motorway, you will normally leave the motorway by a slip road on your left. You should

• watch for the signs letting you know you are getting near your exit
• move into the left-hand lane well before reaching your exit
• signal left in good time and reduce your speed on the slip road as necessary.

So? "As necessary". Still not signalling to empty air, sorry.

 

[Captain]

In a busy area, where cyclists may be, then of course you should indicate. (As should the cyclists, which they rarely do - and don't get me started on whether or not they obey other road signs and requirements). That's about the only scenario where someone like a cyclist would suddenly emerge into a blind spot. And if you've recently overtaken a cyclist, then you should blummin well know they are there!

So no - I do not agree that blindly indicating is the solution, you need to assess every situation and determine whether indicating serves a purpose (which, with practice, can be done in the time it takes you to move your fingers towards the indicator stalk) ... and advanced drivers (and driving school instructors) think likewise.

I clearly don't

So? "As necessary". Still not signalling to empty air, sorry.

It's clearly referring to your speed

 

[Rolfe]

They are not telling you to indicate to empty air.

 

[Captain]

They are not telling you to indicate to empty air.

I'm getting bored of this now.....

they are, perhaps you need new glasses

 

[Rolfe]

Don't be silly. (And as of last year and expensive eye surgery, my eyesight is bloody perfect.)

 

[Captain]

On the contrary, slavish adoption of unnecessary practices just because the technology isn't smart enough suggests rigidity of thinking that should be avoided.

Could you tell me where you've seen this paper...?

I'd like to introduce it to the next safety regulation meeting...we seem to have been barking up the wrong tree all these years...

 

[Emgie 4]

It's clearly referring to your speed

You're right, but unfortunately some will always interpret things in a way that suits their narrative

 

[Ian Key]

Surely you continuously access your driving depending on the road and traffic conditions as well as the vehicle you are driving. If there is a chance there might be someone around, even in your blind spot, you indicate. The main thing is not to drive in autopilot.

I was taught to always indicate for my car test, only to indicate if someone benefited for my IAM test and back to always indicating for my PCV test. All of which I passed first time

 

[bowfer]

I'm delighted to hear there are so many advanced drivers out there
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the merits (or not) of always indicating.

Never said anything about blindly indicating, all the appropriate visual checks should of course be done aswell, my point was people can, and do make mistakes even with the best of training and attention - that's why it's called human error, and the cause of the vast majority of accidents

Correct, so we're in agreement, glad you got my point

Sorry but that's just BS, blindspots exist.
Although I fully agree their affect can be greatly reduced with good driving habits.
But mirrors and moving around in your seat don't change the physics of being belted into a forward facing seat restricting movement and 360° visibility
I've yet to see someone look over their shoulder when doing an overtake (not practical anyway), they trust their mirrors which can not see everything, that's just plain physics

Fully agree with this, those people also infuriates me who think that indicating gives them right of way, case in point being how some 'merge' into traffic from a sliproad onto M-ways, they don't seem to understand they have the responsibility to join safely not for others to get out of their way.

Spoken like a true adv……….zzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[tsedge]

You've never driven my Jaguar F-Type or Lotus Elise

Even with restricted visibility attention to the road will give you a picture of who is around you. If you become distracted, you need to re-establish it. Yes, a handful of cars make visibility hard but the MG4 is not one of them.

Sorry but that's just BS, blindspots exist.
Although I fully agree their affect can be greatly reduced with good driving habits.
But mirrors and moving around in your seat don't change the physics of being belted into a forward facing seat restricting movement and 360° visibility
I've yet to see someone look over their shoulder when doing an overtake (not practical anyway), they trust their mirrors which can not see everything, that's just plain physics.

You can effectively remove the blindspot through your actions as I have described. In almost all cars that works just fine. So yes they exist, but they are not a problem in 99% of cars.

I always look over my shoulder before overtaking. It is only impractical if you have a shoulder or neck injury.