JimmyTwotimes

Standard Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2023
Messages
28
Reaction score
27
Points
13
Location
Herts
Driving
MG4 Trophy LR
Hey everyone

Saw a vid on YouTube on battery balancing for the MG4 so wondered how important it is.

I've never done it nor was I advised by the dealer to do it (had the car about 4 months from new). Did a search on here but only found info related to the ZS.

So:
  1. Should I do it for my MG4 Trophy?
  2. How often?
  3. I use intelligent octopus Go and a Zappi charger. The charging will stop when it hits whatever percentage I've set it for, so how do I force the charge to keep going past the set amount for charge, to achieve the balancing?
Any info appreciated or links to a thread if one already exists.

Thank you.
 
Hey everyone

Saw a vid on YouTube on battery balancing for the MG4 so wondered how important it is.

I've never done it nor was I advised by the dealer to do it (had the car about 4 months from new). Did a search on here but only found info related to the ZS.

So:
  1. Should I do it for my MG4 Trophy?
  2. How often?
  3. I use intelligent octopus Go and a Zappi charger. The charging will stop when it hits whatever percentage I've set it for, so how do I force the charge to keep going past the set amount for charge, to achieve the balancing?
Any info appreciated or links to a thread if one already exists.

Thank you.
Set charger to charge at least 5% more than 100% and if the Zappi doesn't balance, where it should charge at about 0.1kw for a half hour plus then you should switch to the granny charger to balance. This is how I do now.
 
With regards to the NMC type battery in both the Gen 1 and the Gen 2 long range ZSEV.
I am unable to find any concrete evidence that battery balancing is able to commence its cycle below 100% SOC.
Cell’s are never going to display identical values when charging to a lower SOC of say 80%.
As charging reaches about 97% the charge rate drops from the max rate of your wall box etc.
The speed fall’s back to 3.5 kw’s firstly, then reduces down to about 950 kw’s, then 350 and finally about 175 kw’s
Any necessary balancing has now commenced.
Bringing up he value of any cells that are lower than the rest of the pack.
The length of the balance cycle will depend on the time taken to bring all cell’s to their maximum value’s.
When the BMS update was applied to our previous ZS EV ( Gen1) the balance cycle had taken over 8 hours !!!!.
Over time, this slowly reduced down to about 2.5 to 3 hours to complete.
Pre BMS update, the balance cycle was much quicker at about 45 mins to 1 hours.
If you have a home energy monitor, you can observe the gradual reduction in the charging speed as the car enters the balance cycle.
I am unable to comment on how this applies to the LFP battery chemistry units.
 
With regards to the NMC type battery in both the Gen 1 and the Gen 2 long range ZSEV.
I am unable to find any concrete evidence that battery balancing is able to commence its cycle below 100% SOC.
Cell’s are never going to display identical values when charging to a lower SOC of say 80%.
As charging reaches about 97% the charge rate drops from the max rate of your wall box etc.
The speed fall’s back to 3.5 kw’s firstly, then reduces down to about 950 kw’s, then 350 and finally about 175 kw’s
Any necessary balancing has now commenced.
Bringing up he value of any cells that are lower than the rest of the pack.
The length of the balance cycle will depend on the time taken to bring all cell’s to their maximum value’s.
When the BMS update was applied to our previous ZS EV ( Gen1) the balance cycle had taken over 8 hours !!!!.
Over time, this slowly reduced down to about 2.5 to 3 hours to complete.
Pre BMS update, the balance cycle was much quicker at about 45 mins to 1 hours.
If you have a home energy monitor, you can observe the gradual reduction in the charging speed as the car enters the balance cycle.
I am unable to comment on how this applies to the LFP battery chemistry units.
Your correct. I don't know where this balance charging at anything less than 100% came from. Eon Musk recently used this analogy. Think if the battery as a large car park. When the gate opens cars flow in and fill up the spaces at a near constant rate. As the car park nears capacity and cars have to search longer for spaces then the rate at which spaces are filled decreases. When there are only a few spaces left it takes cars a very long time to search for and find empty spaces to fill until 100% capacity is reached.
 
I have observed battery balancing at levels below 100% with my Trophy by monitoring the app. Using the car park analogy, extended to a multistorey, the cars all oark at the lower levels leaving the upper levels free. This means there is more wear at the lower levels. I would say the BMS tries to share the load across all the batteries to maximise overall lifetime.
 
I am unable to comment on how this applies to the LFP battery chemistry units.

Observing my own battery, charging speed drops quickly once 100% has been reached, going down to only about 20 watts. It stays there for around 30-35 minutes, with occasional spikes of higher power. (It's hard to see this now they've taken the second figure after the decimal point away from the app.) It does this every time it is charged to 100%, no matter how frequently you do that.
 
Observing my own battery, charging speed drops quickly once 100% has been reached, going down to only about 20 watts. It stays there for around 30-35 minutes, with occasional spikes of higher power. (It's hard to see this now they've taken the second figure after the decimal point away from the app.) It does this every time it is charged to 100%, no matter how frequently you do that.
I am not surprised to see the figures fluctuating in the App to be honest.
Yesterday I decided to check the consistency / stability of the App by refreshing the front screen about every 10 seconds.
When opening the App I made a mental note of my current SOC level and the remaining predicted range.
After about 8 attempts of refreshing the App it reported different results on a 50 / 50 basis.
The differential was inaccurate in its returns by as much as 10 miles or range ?.
Other values like tyre pressures / sun roof position and internal temperature of the cabin are also inconsistent / erratic in their behaviour.
Purely based on what I have seen, I would be more than a little sceptical on believing what the App reports with regards to its ability to display that balancing is being performed.
A home energy meter is a better indicator of power being drawn TBH.
Having suffered issues with our previous ZS EV - I have spent WAY too many hours sitting watching and taking notes, on how our car conducted itself while charging / balancing.
The ZS EV Gen1 uses the same NMC battery chemistry as the Gen2 LR.
So to this end I consider that the charging / balancing process is extremely similar, if not identical.
In the LR model the information charging screen actually uses the words “Health Mode” when charging up to 80% SOC.
Above 80% is referred to a “Long Trip Mode”.
Charging to 100% is avaiable of course, but differs to the standard range model with the LFP battery, as charging to 100% every single time is positively encouraged.
Here is the contradiction in terms for the NMC battery IMHO.
If we do agree that the balancing cycle on NMC batteries do not commence until almost 100% is reached, then you charging to 100% regardless ?.
 
Lovemyev, I note your response but also that you are referring to your ZS. Whilst your battery technology is the same as that in the MG4 there is no guarantee that the BMS is the same. I can only tell you what I have seen on the app, in the car and as displayed on my IHD. Please note that I only use the granny charger. See my previous posts about seeing the 'battery balancing' message. When I interrupted the charging to see the in-car display with the green lights still flashing the car declared that charging was finished. I tried to start charging again but the car did not respond, presumably because it had reached the set level and balancing is not something the logic allows for. (See other posts about charging continuing after reaching the set level.)

Tonight I was granny-charging to 80% and saw the power drop from 1.9kW to 1.2kW when the app was indicating 80% charge reached. It may have been rounding issues but then the app starting showing 2.0kW (may battery-heating was required). Unfortunately I had to stop charging because I needed to use the car.

What we need is for someone with power recording attached to their charger to resolve the issue.
 
Lovemyev, I note your response but also that you are referring to your ZS. Whilst your battery technology is the same as that in the MG4 there is no guarantee that the BMS is the same. I can only tell you what I have seen on the app, in the car and as displayed on my IHD. Please note that I only use the granny charger. See my previous posts about seeing the 'battery balancing' message. When I interrupted the charging to see the in-car display with the green lights still flashing the car declared that charging was finished. I tried to start charging again but the car did not respond, presumably because it had reached the set level and balancing is not something the logic allows for. (See other posts about charging continuing after reaching the set level.)

Tonight I was granny-charging to 80% and saw the power drop from 1.9kW to 1.2kW when the app was indicating 80% charge reached. It may have been rounding issues but then the app starting showing 2.0kW (may battery-heating was required). Unfortunately I had to stop charging because I needed to use the car.

What we need is for someone with power recording attached to their charger to resolve the issue.
I charge via a dumb 3.5 KW EVSE. I usually charge to 90% and once it reaches the set limit, it carries on , the app displays between 0.2 and 0.3 KW for a period of between 30 - 60 mins before it finally stops charging . This is also shown on my smart meter . So I know it balances at below 100% , I have also tried it at 80% with the same results. I do also balance at 100% about once a month and this also behaves in the same manner.
 
I charge to 80% all the time with my 7kW EVSE but it is always at night so I never get to see what happens at the 80% point. I had been told originally that it would balance at 80% and this appears to be the case based on prior posts. One day soon I'll do an observed test as I did for the 100% charge & post the results.
 
Your correct. I don't know where this balance charging at anything less than 100% came from. Eon Musk recently used this analogy. Think if the battery as a large car park. When the gate opens cars flow in and fill up the spaces at a near constant rate. As the car park nears capacity and cars have to search longer for spaces then the rate at which spaces are filled decreases. When there are only a few spaces left it takes cars a very long time to search for and find empty spaces to fill until 100% capacity is reached.
I have struggled with this theory of balancing below 100% SOC myself on my car at least.
So, I have decided to investigate this a little more on our ZS EV LR with the NMC battery chemistry.
Yes of course other MG models maybe different, I do fully understand this.
The object here was to try and catch the balance cycle commencing at SOC % ( state of charge levels percentages ) lower than 100%.
For anybody who may find this subject of any interest, here is my very recent findings (16/01/24).
I set the charging level to complete at 80% because my day time tariff is 40p/kw and my off rate rate is only 5p/kw in the early hours of the morning.
Conducting this test in day light hours to monitor the situation is therefore expensive.
So, prior to this test starting, my SOC level of the pack was at 69%.
My home energy meter is displaying an electric energy consumption of between 250 & 400 Watts is being used by the house ( fridge freezer etc ) no other high demand being used.
I plugged the car into our 7 kw wall box at 12.40pm ( after lunch ).
Instantly the home energy meter jumps to 7.4 Kw's and the I.smart App is displaying that the car is accepting 6.41 Kw's so all is fine.
Here is the updated results, set out in the following sequence.

Precise Time of day of each check up on progress.
Battery SOC / percentage check at each stage.
The updated predicted range at each stage.
Energy meter consumption figures ( house ).
Level of energy being accepted by the car.
Predicted time when completed.

13.10pm / 76% / 186 Miles / 7.40 kw's / 6.41 Kw's / 13.44pm.
13.28pm / 79% / 196 Miles / 7.56 kw's / 6.58 kw's / 13.39pm.
13.36pm / 80% / 198 Miles / 7.65 kw's / 6.41 kw's / 13.40pm.
13.40pm / 80% / 199 Miles / 7.50 kw's / 6.43 kw's / 13.43pm.
13.44pm / 80% / 201Miles / 641 Watts / 3.67 kw's / 13.46pm.

Wall box has now returned to the standby state condition and home energy meter is only displaying 417 Watts of power being used by the rest of the house.

The results above would strongly suggest two options here.
1) Either the battery was already in a very good state of balance, given that the balance cycle only appeared to last about 4 minutes or even LESS.
But then I have to question this theory, because the car was pulling a strong, almost 7 kw's and then dropped over a cliff's edge rapidly down to 641 Watts, then quickly stopped the charge altogether.
I would expect to see a must more gradual ramp down in power being drawn by the car myself, prior to a balance cycle commencing.
Our previous ZS EV ( Gen1 ) with NMC chemistry would gradually step down from it's max 7 kw's, firstly down to 3.5 kw's at about 97% SOC then when nearing 100% it step down to about 950 Watts , then 500 Watts, then 300 Watts / 175 Watts then after short time, return the wall box to the standby state.

2 ) Or, as I suspected no balance cycle had taken place, when the charge level was set to 80% SOC.

I was tempted slightly to conduct the test again, by setting the SOC level to 90% this time, but charging in the day light hours proves to be expensive.
Other MG models fitted with NMC or LPF batteries may have a different charging protocol and balance cycle process of course.
Models with LFP packs ( like the ZS EV standard range ) charge to 100% SOC only, so a balance cycle is therefore called for at every charge session on a A/C supply.
LFP batteries are noted to struggle predicting the remaining range if charged below a level of 100%.
Tesla Bjorn has pointed this out on many of his long EV test drives.
 
Last edited:
I have struggled with this theory of balancing below 100% SOC myself on my car at least.
So, I have decided to investigate this a little more on our ZS EV LR with the NMC battery chemistry.
Yes of course other MG models maybe different, I do fully understand this.
The object here was to try and catch the balance cycle commencing at SOC % ( state of charge levels percentages ) lower than 100%.
For anybody who may find this subject of any interest, here is my very recent findings (16/01/24).
I set the charging level to complete at 80% because my day time tariff is 40p/kw and my off rate rate is only 5p/kw in the early hours of the morning.
Conducting this test in day light hours to monitor the situation is therefore expensive.
So, prior to this test starting, my SOC level of the pack was at 69%.
My home energy meter is displaying an electric energy consumption of between 250 & 400 Watts is being used by the house ( fridge freezer etc ) no other high demand being used.
I plugged the car into our 7 kw wall box at 12.40pm ( after lunch ).
Instantly the home energy meter jumps to 7.4 Kw's and the I.smart App is displaying that the car is accepting 6.41 Kw's so all is fine.
Here is the updated results, set out in the following sequence.

Precise Time of day of each check up on progress.
Battery SOC / percentage check at each stage.
The updated predicted range at each stage.
Energy meter consumption figures ( house ).
Level of energy being accepted by the car.
Predicted time when completed.

13.10pm / 76% / 186 Miles / 7.40 kw's / 6.41 Kw's / 13.44pm.
13.28pm / 79% / 196 Miles / 7.56 kw's / 6.58 kw's / 13.39pm.
13.36pm / 80% / 198 Miles / 7.65 kw's / 6.41 kw's / 13.40pm.
13.40pm / 80% / 199 Miles / 7.50 kw's / 6.43 kw's / 13.43pm.
13.44pm / 80% / 201Miles / 641 Watts / 3.67 kw's / 13.46pm.

Wall box has now returned to the standby state condition and home energy meter is only displaying 417 Watts of power being used by the rest of the house.

The results above would strongly suggest two options here.
1) Either the battery was already in a very good state of balance, given that the balance cycle only appeared to last about 4 minutes or even LESS.
But then I have to question this theory, because the car was pulling a strong, almost 7 kw's and then dropped over a cliff's edge rapidly down to 641 Watts, then quickly stopped the charge altogether.
I would expect to see a must more gradual ramp down in power being drawn by the car myself, prior to a balance cycle commencing.
Our previous ZS EV ( Gen1 ) with NMC chemistry would gradually step down from it's max 7 kw's, firstly down to 3.5 kw's at about 97% SOC then when nearing 100% it step down to about 950 Watts , then 500 Watts, then 300 Watts / 175 Watts then after short time, return the wall box to the standby state.

2 ) Or, as I suspected no balance cycle had taken place, when the charge level was set to 80% SOC.

I was tempted slightly to conduct the test again, by setting the SOC level to 90% this time, but charging in the day light hours proves to be expensive.
Other MG models fitted with NMC or LPF batteries may have a different charging protocol and balance cycle process of course.
Models with LFP packs ( like the ZS EV standard range ) charge to 100% SOC only, so a balance cycle is therefore called for at every charge session on a A/C supply.
LFP batteries are noted to struggle predicting the remaining range if charged below a level of 100%.
Tesla Bjorn has pointed this out on many of his long EV test drives.
I would monitor this again on 100% SoC and see if there is any difference. And secondly will it even try to balance if very recently done, even at 100%?
 
The only way to check for balancing is to look at the difference between the highest and lowest cell voltages as that is what really matters.

One might track the voltage difference (at a given SOC) over time to see whether it increases, or decreases, depending on the charging routine.

The time spent charging at low power at the set SOC is likely just the car adding energy slowly as the limit is reached.
 
You are assuming that your Wallbox is capable of supplying the low level power required for balancing or any possible pauses in balancing that could occur. My trials with a granny charging shows very low levels. Before the app ditched the second decimal point I have seen 20W with the port lights still flashing. I have also seen the power drop to 1.2kW before jumping again to 1.9kW whilst at the set charge level. Mine is a Trophy.
 
As mentioned in an earlier post my 7kW single phase charger dropped from over 6kW to 4 - 4.4kW at the time the car and app stated it would reach 100%. The only way to check if it is balancing is to look at the battery functions option in the car infotainment screen and if it is balancing it states this there. The app does not indicate the battery is balancing. It just states charging with the end time being the current time.

Personally I don't think any balancing is done when the battery reaches 80% as this is how I charge 1 to 3 times a week. When I charge to 100% each month that is when the balancing takes place for about half an hour. If using a granny charger it will be much longer
 

Are you enjoying your MG4?

  • Yes

    Votes: 500 79.4%
  • I'm in the middle

    Votes: 84 13.3%
  • No

    Votes: 46 7.3%
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

MG3 Hybrid+ & Cyberster Configurator News + hot topics from the MG EVs forums
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom