“Fast Charging” - at 3.6kW or less

[dsr]

I posted recently querying whether Type 2 cables were redundant. Well, I thought I would christen mine yesterday, at a National Trust site. The initial reading was at 3.4kW, rising soon after to 3.6kW. When I returned to the car 2+ hours later the charge rate was 1.4kW. I had a look at cars nearby that were charging at 11kW. OK, I appreciated that I would only get about 7kW, but the car charged less than that in 2.5hours - the battery having gone up from 44% to 53%.
So, could I have been doing something wrong? A slow or faulty cable supplied by my MG dealer? Or what?
To add insult to injury, it seems that Charge Point (whose charger it was) have a minimum charge of £15, so I have paid over £2 per kWh, which must be some kind of record!

 

[Grriff]

Thanks for this information. I'm about to write to the National Trust about the information on electric chargers and will request they provide details of payment, including minimum charge.
You may have a single phase cable - try this thread Slow vs "Fast" charging confusion

 

[dsr]

Thanks for the helpful reply. Looks like I need to invest in a 3-phase cable.
Still a lot of learning to do on my part.

Thanks for this information. I'm about to write to the National Trust about the information on electric chargers and will request they provide details of payment, including minimum charge.
You may have a single phase cable - try this thread Slow vs "Fast" charging confusion

 

[Grriff]

I'm about to e-mail the National Trust as follows:
I am a member of the National Trust with an electric vehicle. I am aware that there is a page on the web that lists properties with EV chargers (Find electric vehicle charging points). However:

• This page does not seem to be available on the National Trust App.
• It would be useful if this information showed the provider of the charging equipment; options for payment (contactless, providers app etc.) ; the power available (11kW, 22kW etc.) and any minimum charge. See a comment on the MG EV forum at MG EV Forum. I am aware that some of this information is shown for some properties (e.g Attingham Park) but not all (for example Bodnant).
• It would also be useful if this information was shown in the ‘Facilities’ section for each property on the web and app. Again, it is available only for some properties

EDIT; I've just accessed the NT site and much of this information is now available, although it's not consistent. I'll amend my e-mail accordingly as above.

 

[space travel]

An AC charging unit can provide either single-phase or three-phase power. If you see a charger advertised as 3.5kW or 7kW, it's single phase. 11kW or 22kW are three-phase.

The on-board equipment on most models of MG4 can only accept single-phase AC, so on a three-phase AC charger, you'll get around ⅓ of the advertised charge rate.

Around 3.6kW is exactly what you'd expect to receive from an 11kW three-phase AC charger. The other cars you saw charging at 11kW must be models which are capable of charging from three-phase power.

The MG4's a fantastic car, but there's always a trade off! Unfortunately the lack of support for three-phase charging is one of those trade-offs.

This might be one to chalk up to experience - but, you never know, with a polite message to the charge point provider, they might give you a bit of a refund.

 

[Adam C]

I could be wrong but when you say minimum charge/fee , you sure it’s not just a standing charge they take & adjust after?

I mainly use Mer chargers, as soon as my card is accepted they take £20 from my bank ( use to be £10 )

Then say the total cost of my charging is £15, I get refunded £5 within a day or two

If it costs say £25 then they will take another £5 on top of what they took straight away

Hopefully it is just this otherwise that’s just crazy

 

[dsr]

An AC charging unit can provide either single-phase or three-phase power. If you see a charger offer 3.5kW or 7kW, it's single phase. 11kW or 22kW are three-phase.

The on-board equipment on most models of MG4 can only accept single-phase AC, so on a three-phase AC charger, you'll get around ⅓ of the advertised charge rate.

Around 3.6kW is exactly what you'd expect to receive from an 11kW three-phase AC charger. The other cars you saw charging at 11kW must be models which are capable of charging from three-phase power.

The MG4's a fantastic car, but there's always a trade off! Unfortunately the lack of support for three-phase charging is one of those trade-offs.

This might be one to chalk up to experience - but, you never know, with a polite message to the charge point provider, they might give you a bit of a refund.

Thanks. Apart from my ignorance, I think any ‘fault’ lies with NT rather than the charging company and Grriff has kindly contacted them. I will get a 3-phase cable, write off my lost £10-£11 to experience - and keep learning

 

[dsr]

I could be wrong but when you say minimum charge/fee , you sure it’s not just a standing charge they take & adjust after?

I mainly use Mer chargers, as soon as my card is accepted they take £20 from my bank ( use to be £10 )

Then say the total cost of my charging is £15, I get refunded £5 within a day or two

If it costs say £25 then they will take another £5 on top of what they took straight away

Hopefully it is just this otherwise that’s just crazy

Interesting thought. I guess I will need to wait a few working days to find out. I will post if I get a refund.

 

[Adam C]

Interesting thought. I guess I will need to wait a few working days to find out. I will post if I get a refund.

I could be wrong buddy but I hope I’m right & you will see it refunded because that’s excessive

Good luck

 

[Rolfe]

It might be that the £15 was a pre-authorisation fee and you won't actually be debited for that.

Unless your car is one of the first phase, with no rear wiper or third headrest in the back, you won't be able to make use of a three-phase cable.

 

[siteguru]

An AC charging unit can provide either single-phase or three-phase power. If you see a charger offer 3.5kW or 7kW, it's single phase. 11kW or 22kW are three-phase.

The on-board equipment on most models of MG4 can only accept single-phase AC, so on a three-phase AC charger, you'll get around ⅓ of the advertised charge rate.

Around 3.6kW is exactly what you'd expect to receive from an 11kW three-phase AC charger. The other cars you saw charging at 11kW must be models which are capable of charging from three-phase power.

The MG4's a fantastic car, but there's always a trade off! Unfortunately the lack of support for three-phase charging is one of those trade-offs.

This might be one to chalk up to experience - but, you never know, with a polite message to the charge point provider, they might give you a bit of a refund.

If it offers 3.5kW then it'll be 16A single phase. If you only get 3.5kW (a different thing) then it's probably an 11kW 3 phase charge point but you only have a single phase cable (or a car with a single phase onboard charger*).

* Shouldn't apply in @dsr's case as they have a Trophy ER and I'm pretty sure they come with a 3-phase charger.

 

[space travel]

If it offers 3.5kW then it'll be 16A single phase. If you only get 3.5kW (a different thing) then it's probably an 11kW 3 phase charge point but you only have a single phase cable (or a car with a single phase onboard charger*).

* Shouldn't apply in @dsr's case as they have a Trophy ER and I'm pretty sure they come with a 3-phase charger.

Ah yes, good point!! I've edited my original post.

Definitely worth double checking whether the specific model does support three-phase. Buying a new cable is money down the drain if not...

 

[Martinonline]

I recently charged at an MFG rapid charger and their pre-authorisation charge is £40. In fact my CC account showed recent transactions of £40, £40 and £25.93, the latter being the real cost. You tap the card reader to stop the charge and I wonder if if then does another pre-authorisation. I will check to see if the £40s have disappeared.

EDIT: Just checked one £40 has disappeared after 2 days.

 

[IanMK]

Perhaps another issue to consider:
I only have a single phase cable myself as I expected that I would be mostly charging at home, otherwise most likely to use 'destination' chargers with a higher capacity and integral cable. I thought that a 3-phase cable was likely to be thicker and more difficult to 'manhandle'.

 

[Grriff]

3 phase cable is heavier but not too difficult to handle.
I think that a 'destination' charger delivers up to 50kW AC but limited by the car usually to 7 or 11kW.. It may not have a tethered cable and is intended for charging when you have reached your destination and have the time to charge slowly. Rapid or ultra rapid DC chargers will have a tethered cable and are intended for charging en-route.

 

[dsr]

Can I tell from the writing on the cable (sorry I am away from the car until Wednesday) which phase cable I have? When I used it for the first time at the National Trust property, it certainly looked thicker and less malleable than cables of other marque cars nearby.

 

[siteguru]

The writing on your cable? Sure - that should have details of what specification it is.

 

[dsimpkins]

I use a 3 phase cable as my SE LR MY2022 does support 3 phase charging (11kW, reality is about 9kW) I charge at work which do have 22kW chargers.

The cable is thicker, but not difficult to handle. mine has bright green insulation so easy for others to see to reduce chance of it being a trip hazard. Think I paid about £130/£140 for it with a carry case included.

 

[fnegroni]

The AC charger on my MG4 has an efficiency of around 87%
When charging from my 3.6kW EVSE at home, it charges at 3.1kW
From the local Monta 7.4kw EVSE it charges at 6.5kW
And on the 2.25 kW granny it charges at 1.9kW

 

[siteguru]

FYI the charger on the SE is rated to 6.6kW so you'll never get any more than that. I concur re. 87% efficiency for a 7kW wall box/EVSE ... (I've seen as high as 94%). For a granny I'd expect nearer 80% efficiency. (I tend to see about 1.85kW into the car per the app - back when it used to show charge to 2 decimal places).