Balcony Solar

[Bam Bam]

Here is a recent news article on the topic which claims...

"plug-in panels that homeowners can self-install on balconies would be available in supermarkets in the coming months."

And...

"currently the panels are not sold in the UK as they do not meet safety regulations for electrical installations. The government said it was working to review and update these in the coming months."

However, the problems that @Everest is highlighting won't be solved in 3 months.

Maybe there is a case for not banning things and instead selling them with big warnings on them to get electrical upgrades before installation.

Who will have liability? The government? The manufacturer? The retailer? No. Probably all of us when insurance costs go up to cover the costs of fires.

there's the wider issue of whether all such "consumer installable" inverters will adhere to ENA G98 compliance in terms of disconnection times and quality of generated waveforms.

The worry is that people are going to start to use crap and unsafe stuff as happens with vape batteries etc.

Does that mean it is a good idea to have some approved products that are approved and tested as safe?

It is going to an Aldi and Lidl job, isn't it?

I guess a lot will be cheap non-compliant Chinese rubbish - let's just hope they don't start selling ones with battery storage in them as well, or we'll be seeing a lot more fires - like with cheap e-scooter chargers, not to mention adherence to the 'currently-not-mandatory' BSI PAS 63100 guidelines

Edited to add: re the fire risk - IMHO it's even more risky that these things are aimed at people in high-rise blocks of flats.

Yes, it is very sad the thought that people will lose their lives as a result of risky behaviour. Including people who had nothing to do with it but live in the same building.

 

[Everest]

"currently the panels are not sold in the UK as they do not meet safety regulations for electrical installations. The government said it was working to review and update these in the coming months."

However, the problems that @Everest is highlighting won't be solved in 3 months.

agree. Sadly, I suspect the government will accidentally lose the only phone on which they have a copy of the BS7671 wiring regulation and leave the only laptop, which has a PDF of BS7617 on a train. And then claim there are no reasons to not make these devices available to purchase.

Simultaneously, Ed Millipede will receive a £100,000 donation from both Lidl and Amazon and hey preston, Bob's your uncle and we can all go out and buy two 400W solar panels (measuring 1.8m x 1m and weighing 20+Kg) from the centre isle. Then let's hope no-one drops them off their balcony when they're trying to hang/attach them to the cellotex cladding on their 7th floor balcony.

Cynic, who me?

 

[Bam Bam]

I should confess, after all this talk lately I'm eyeing up the south-facing fence in our garden. It is in the shade for most of the day but should get some sun during the peak hours each day which would help.

Our electrics are very dodgy, though. A previous owner was apparently happy to install his own electrics because 'his Dad is an electrician and it is easy.'

Should probably have the electrics all updated, and if doing that we'd probably be better off just putting panels on the garage roof or South-facing wall.

You'd think 16 panels would be enough but however much solar and battery you've got you'll probably always want more!

 

[Everest]

You'd think 16 panels would be enough but however much solar and battery you've got you'll probably always want more!

16 is definitely not enough

On that note... it looks like we'll have harvested just over 1MWh of solar this month

 

[GaryMG4]

On that note... it looks like we'll have harvested just over 1MWh of solar this month

Only just over 300 kWh here, but I have managed to self consume more than 2 thirds of it with 162 kWh going into the cars at a total cost of £2.

 

[JohnV6]

302 kWh with 160 exported. The last week or so has been good. It is confusing as I doubled my battery storage to 8.4kWh & top up at 7p at night. We discharged a further 160 kWh

 

[Bam Bam]

On that note... it looks like we'll have harvested just over 1MWh of solar this month

How many panels do you have, again?

We've generated 398kWh so far in March, with three days to go.

Consumed 455.2
Imported 407.4
Exported 339.2

 

[gonzo]

I expect the approvals for plug in systems will be limited to low power inverters.
The concerns over numerous inverters all keeping each-other up, would in reality be that they drift in frequency well outside of the acceptable range of the grid. And trip out, due to that lack of anything with inertia being on the grid in the event of an outage.
But a lot of engineering is dealing with the edge cases of 'what if?'

 

[Bam Bam]

I expect the approvals for plug in systems will be limited to low power inverters.
The concerns over numerous inverters all keeping each-other up, would in reality be that they drift in frequency well outside of the acceptable range of the grid. And trip out, due to that lack of anything with inertia being on the grid in the event of an outage.

Do you think that small-scale inverters are a potential cause of concern here?

I know the Iberian case was partly as a result of this frequency drift, but they don't have so many 'grid-forming' inverters there because they went solar earlier.

But a lot of engineering is dealing with the edge cases of 'what if?'

I expect batteries attached to grid-forming inverters (once they get installed, which is taking a long time with all the permission processes involved) will really help with this issue.

 

[T1 Terry]

I can see the value of a stand along unit that enough output to power the main appliances during an outage of during peak power cost periods, but pluging it in to back feed a circuit
The demo with no power supplied once it's unplugged, so it would shut down in a power outage ..... but would it in every unit had at least 1 or each window that faced the sun had a system plugged in, would that be enough to keep the system alive by feeding to each other?

Not a hope of getting something like that legal in Australia, even at a mere 800W, it will still kill someone if they end up across the circuit, believing they have isolated it at the power box ....

T1 Terry

 

[Gomev]

City plumbing think they are now legal and are selling kits.

UK Plug-in Solar 2026 Legal Kits | City Plumbing

Shop UK legal 800W plug-in solar kits at City Plumbing. Save on energy bills with 2026 compliant DIY balcony & garden PV. Easy setup, no electrician needed!

www.cityplumbing.co.uk

Is It Legal? The 2026 Regulations Explained
The question of "Are plug-in solar panels legal in the UK 2026?" finally has a clear answer: Yes, provided they meet the new safety standards.
The UK has transitioned from a 'DIY ban' to the new BS 7671 Amendment 4; a set of electrical wiring regulations that set safety requirements for domestic electrical installations, including plug-in solar kits for use in home circuits.


Ecoflow have been selling kits for a while from basic (bottom of page) and including batteries (top of page) and currently have a sale on.

Solar Kit EcoFlow STREAM | EcoFlow UK - EcoFlow UK

Unlock the biggest savings on Solar Kit EcoFlow STREAM.

uk.ecoflow.com

 

[gonzo]

20yrs ago a company were selling plug in wind turbine kits, nationally through kiosks in B&Q. Doubt they were legal.

The anti island issue and having multiple systems feeding and keeping each other up.... (This includes installed and plug in)
In a grid connected system, you have lots of heavy rotating metal in the power station generators. The GTI in your solar systems has to push against them. And they are speed governed mechanically (by the system driving them). So they will hold the system within tight limits.
If you have an outage and the solar systems have nothing as a reference, the concern is that they will just push against each other. But having no big generators connected, the frequency that these will run at will drift all over the place. They should be designed so they will detect this and shut down.

My go to analogy....
Think of it like pushing a real fatty on a swing. The fatty and swing are the heavy element with inertia. These are the big generators in the grid. The solar systems are you pushing the swing. You put a little bit of a push every swing and keep the swing going.
If you had loads of people pushing, they would still push together (you would time your pushes based on the swing, the solar inverters do the same)
When the fatty jumps off, that is your grid outage.
Now you have people pushing at a light bit of rope and a plank. It would be all over the place, as everyone would be confused over when to push. And you would all stop, as you realise something is wrong.

If it happened that by chance people managed to keep pushing the swing at the original rate, so it looked to them as if the fatty was still on it, then it could keep going. This is the case that engineers worry about.
But the reality is, this would be a very narrow set of parameters that would have to exist. And in a grid, the system is changing. As loads come in and out the weight and the length of the rope and swing will be changing. So the chance of everyone pushing away and thinking all is normal, will be unlikely.

But as I said, engineers have to cater for all cases and it is these one in a million chances that tend to take up a lot of engineering time.

 

[Everest]

How many panels do you have, again?

Not enough, of course (+ PM'd you)

 

[Bam Bam]

Just spoke to my electrician neighbour.

He is very concerned that line workers are going to get electrocuted with all this balcony solar backfeeding into the grid.

 

[Everest]

He is very concerned that line workers are going to get electrocuted with all this balcony solar backfeeding into the grid.

They should all comply with G98/G99 regs for cut-out in the case of no grid. Obviously they will also need to do that or they'd electrocute users with 'live' pins on their BS1363 plugs.