Charged a fee for software updates? (MG4)

[HwanMartyr]

My MG4 SE LR is currently in for its service at the MG dealership I bought the car from. I specifically asked for software updates in advance.

I've just had a call with what was essentially a disclaimer:

"there's 15 updates and this could come at quite a cost to yourself. And also there's no guarantee that these updates won't make some functions obsolete or cause functionality issues with the car"

Something along those lines.

So I said "OK, well what's the cost?"

"One hour's labour so £120+VAT"

I've said to crack on in spite of the disclaimer and the cost, but is this normal?

 

[baader]

Yes, I had to pay a fee of about 42 EUR to upload the R46.
I originally complained about the faulty air conditioning and infotainment errors, but was told that my MG4 did not have a valid warranty and I had to pay for the service. Now I'm taking it up with the dealership...

 

[siteguru]

The only update that may be chargeable is the Infotainment (1100R33 is the latest for the SE) - and even that can be covered by warranty if you've complained about certain issues (e.g. no external temperature indication on screen; Bluetooth pairing keeps being lost, etc.). All other updates will be module updates covered by service campaigns and none of them should be chargeable.

I'd be tempted to find another service dealer.

 

[tsedge]

The only update that may be chargeable is the Infotainment (1100R33 is the latest for the SE) - and even that can be covered by warranty if you've complained about certain issues (e.g. no external temperature indication on screen; Bluetooth pairing keeps being lost, etc.). All other updates will be module updates covered by service campaigns and none of them should be chargeable.

I'd be tempted to find another service dealer.

I don't think this is right.

There's no right to free updates outside the safety-related mandatory one or two (eg lock in bug).

You will get updates free if it is part of a warranty claim for a problem.

But otherwise asking explicitly for an update will require you to pay dealer's charges as they can't reclaim the cost from MG.

MG don't require service campaign updates for most things, they require a customer to report a problem first.

I could be wrong but this is my understanding and my experience.

 

[siteguru]

I'm talking about updates which are Service Campaigns - they are warranty updates but not required to be done as a recall, so can wait until the car is presented for an annual service. (Unless I'm misinterpreting what Service Campaign actually means?)

 

[tsedge]

I'm talking about updates which are Service Campaigns - they are warranty updates but not required to be done as a recall, so can wait until the car is presented for an annual service. (Unless I'm misinterpreting what Service Campaign actually means?)

I know. I am saying that relatively few of the available updates are treated like this - it isn't the vast majority.

I believe this is because of all the problems updates can have - failed to install, bricked cars, etc... and the costs of resolving that.

As far as I can tell now, lots of complaining about real warranty issues is the only route to lots of updates.

 

[Susanna]

I have the ZS, but I feel the issue is the same - MG originally advertised OTA updates (for the infotainment), but since that has not materialised, surely no-one should be charged for those? My infotainment works reasonably well, and nothing was updated when it had its first service last November. If updates were available for my car, I would expect that to be carried out FOC, in the absence of the OTA updates advertised.

 

[GameZone]

Updates should be part of the service, especially when OTA aren't avaliable.

 

[haloweenhamster]

Could be pricey, FVCM took approx 1½ hours on it's own
This was mine before updating

would have taken approx 3½ hours if everything had gone smoothly but actually took over 5 hours due to a couple of issues then you have several recalibrations

I did mine myself total cost so far about £140 for interface (hardware dongle, only need to buy once) & subscription

Be interested if they give you a list of what's been carried out like someone else had, stating module from & to versions (I'd hope they did if charging for it)

 

[Anon70]

As cars move from being mostly mechanical to more software based the old service and support models do not work.

Everyone who has been used to free operating system and device driver updates on computers and other tech devices is in a mindset where this should also be the norm for cars. I guess the personal tech is less mission critical than a couple of tons of car travelling at up to 70mph with other road users around them.

In theory the car manufacturers should test every combination of software update on every module in the car and know which software can be updated independently and which requires certain modules to be updated together. However, as we have all probably experienced from pc or phone updates we know that pulling on one lose thread can unravel a whole jumper.

So the mindset is when you have a stable (or relatively stable) set of software and hardware working together you don't fix what aint broken.

 

[tsedge]

In theory the car manufacturers should test every combination of software update on every module in the car and know which software can be updated independently and which requires certain modules to be updated together. However, as we have all probably experienced from pc or phone updates we know that pulling on one lose thread can unravel a whole jumper.

I agree with your analysis.

However, the above is impractical as there are so many systems and they are constantly evolving targets with their own updates.

The solution that appears to work best is Tesla's: stop using vendor software and write your own software stack, so you just buy in dumb hardware and centralise the processing and the code. Which is similar to what phone makers do.

But this is an extremely hard pivot for a traditional mechanical OEM to do who does not have modern software expertise in strength and depth.

I think it may be easier to start a new car company than to do the switch, although maybe Renault are managing it by using Google as a platform.

 

[tsedge]

Could be pricey, FVCM took approx 1½ hours on it's own
This was mine before updating
View attachment 30570
would have taken approx 3½ hours if everything had gone smoothly but actually took over 5 hours due to a couple of issues then you have several recalibrations

I did mine myself total cost so far about £140 for interface & subscription

Be interested if they give you a list of what's been carried out like someone else had, stating module from & to versions (I'd hope they did if charging for it)

Would you be willing to put together a guide for how to do this?

 

[wattmatters]

Everyone who has been used to free operating system and device driver updates on computers and other tech devices is in a mindset where this should also be the norm for cars.

Yet that's exactly how Tesla do it. Free OTA updates.

 

[Guru]

When we bought our MG4 we were told that it would have OTA updates and even on the MG website it says

"the Service-Oriented Architecture (SOA) will enable vehicles to receive Over-The-Air (OTA) updates throughout their lifecycle."

So not unreasonable to expect free OTA updates really. I haven't yet been asked to pay for an update and our dealer seems pretty good however I wouldn't be happy if I was asked to pay.

 

[HwanMartyr]

Just adding a reply to confirm what went down in the end.

I found it proper disconcerting when they told me it could break the car.

In the end it did not, they performed all the updates and charged me £120 for the privilege.

I have to say the cruise control has gone from essentially unusable to a nice, intuitive feature - it also doesnt slow down from 75 to 60 on the slightest motorway bend. The fact that I can turn off the lane assist easier, and see the outside air temperature is also a bonus.

Also, could just be placebo this but the AC seems to be working "better."

 

[crl84]

Could be pricey, FVCM took approx 1½ hours on it's own
This was mine before updating
View attachment 30570
would have taken approx 3½ hours if everything had gone smoothly but actually took over 5 hours due to a couple of issues then you have several recalibrations

I did mine myself total cost so far about £140 for interface (hardware dongle, only need to buy once) & subscription

Be interested if they give you a list of what's been carried out like someone else had, stating module from & to versions (I'd hope they did if charging for it)

What interface and what subscription are you talking about?

 

[haloweenhamster]

What interface and what subscription are you talking about?

See details here
Post in thread Diagnostic VDI, VNCI, MDI with MG4

 

[Buster72]

I have the ZS, but I feel the issue is the same - MG originally advertised OTA updates (for the infotainment), but since that has not materialised, surely no-one should be charged for those? My infotainment works reasonably well, and nothing was updated when it had its first service last November. If updates were available for my car, I would expect that to be carried out FOC, in the absence of the OTA updates advertised.

That is a good point.
When I bought my SE SR, I was definitely told, as part of the sales talk that updates were OTA. But that is not the case. The infotainment is still the basic R13.

However, it and the car seem to be working ok with OAT being displayed.

 

[DBedford]

I can't see the UK Government ever allowing Chinese car manufactures to update over the air.

 

[JonnyG]

I can't see the UK Government ever allowing Chinese car manufactures to update over the air.

It must get into a grey area then with brands like Volvo and Polestar which are mainly built in China (EV's anyway) and have OTA updates and are ultimately owned by Geely ?

https://www.volvocarswaterloo.com/who-owns-volvo/