First 'away from home' charging and V2L working in anger

JohnInFrance

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Well, the MG is out of the garage, still broken, but we got bored of waiting for the dealer not to fix it and decided to take it on a trip to Spain as I'm working at the Barcelona circuit this weekend taking polaroids of race cars going round and round in circles turning hydrocarbons into noise.

This was to be it's first full on long trip and charge away from our home (or free town) chargers and the fist using DC CCS as well. Overall charging on route was fine, we had one broken charger (and that got locked into the car and it wouldn't let go, but 10 seconds to pop the bonnet and pull the release cable solved that particular problem). One thing that really gets my goat is that, almost without exception, here in France all the charging points we have used have no canopy over them and of course, the insanely hot weather we have been having chose Thursday to come to an end with thunderstorms across the south of the country and I got soaked to the skin every time we needed to recharge.

1661609170299.png


We used a mixture of the bonnet app, Ionity's native app and Shell recharge to charge on the way down (charging in the paddock is free, which is a bonus) - still working out whether it's best to pay for Ionity charges with Bonnet (€0.60/kWh) or native in the app (€0.66/min) - if its a splash and dash, probabaly per minute is slightly cheaper as we were seeing charging speeds of 78-85kW. We've also noticed that there is an enormous difference between different apps for the same charge on the same charge point - if not careful it's possible to pay almost double for certain chargers between using the CPOs app and a third party app, so planning is certainy essential.

Screenshot 2022-08-27 at 16.05.51.jpg


The V2L is working fine and charges my scoot up after each session chasing race cars around the circuit emergency roads with a stack of big cameras slung over my shoulders.

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So my summary of the trip to date is this - why the f*** don't all these CPOs advertise their prices and why can't I just pay a price per kWh by my contactless/credit card like I do for dino-juice? Basically, it's a lottery what the price will be until you get the invlice sometime after you have charged (between minutes and days depending on the service provider). As far as I can see, it's little more than a legalised scam at the moment.

Anyhow, here's an arsty-fartsy photo from today, after all, that's the reason I'm here and learning all this stuff about 'away from home' charging innit?

ELMS Round 4 2022 20220826 - No 60 Barcelona_ESP for RacerViews dot com by Agence Dix Sept Med...jpg
 
In Denmark the first legacy petrol station chain has begun installing EV chargers that not only accept CC directly at the charger, but also have the same price, regardless of, if you use a CC or an APP.

And yes it is a big lottery....When i had the ZS EV i would mostly travel along the same motorway, and found one that was about 40% cheaper than the others, so i always planned my trips around getting to that charger to charge. That particular 150 KWh charger cost about the same as a destination charger normally cost here, so really nice.
 
Hi John, I'm interested in finding your source for the V2L adaptor. I'm planning to do a heap of e-bike touring with my EV and I think this would be handy to have.
Very simple to make if you have basic skills and tools.
 
And yes it is a big lottery....
Things I found out this journey:

Same charger, different price from the Charge Point Operator (CPO) via their own app, and third party apps. In fact, for one 150kW charger at Narbonne I found the following prices dependant upon what card or app I used to initiate the charge:
  • 69 cents per kWh (no timing charge)
  • 40 cents per kWh with a 4 cents per minute useage charge
  • 35 cents per kWh with a 35 cent one off and 2 cents per minute useage charge
  • Time based only at 3.24 pence per minute (£1.75 for 54 minutes attached but only a 24 minute charge - I went to have dinner!)
The last one was the option I took, which was with Electroverse (what used to be the Octopus charge app) and bills to my UK bank account, but to be honest, I had no idea how much it would cost me, that card worked while the others, whihc all said they would, in fact did not.

But seriousy, this is basically ridiculous - one has to have a phd in applied maths to work out which way to pay for a charge, whether via one of the (way too many) RFID cards in the glovebox, or the myriad of apps installed and what the cost will be. It's about time the EU got onboard here and legislated to bring this to an end - the prices charged should be clearly displayed at the Charge Point as it is for hydrocarbon based fuels and it should remain the same no matter what means the customer uses to purchase said charge.

At the moment, it's such a free-for-all it appears to be nothing less than legalised extortion to me.
 
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Roughly how much would it cost to make your own V2L? Any diagrams?
Check this post I did back in June. I haven't tested it yet as I haven't got the car, but fully expecting it to work :)

 
I have the MG V2L adapter, which is pretty good but big to always be carrying. I then purchased from aliexpress ( at present not available) which at first didn't work. Then changing the pin for the resistor got it to work. But I am a bit wary of using it for continuous high power. the other disadvantage is that it is not waterproof, so only good for dry days
1662277744673.png
 
Things I found out this journey:

Same charger, different price from the Charge Point Operator (CPO) via their own app, and third party apps. In fact, for one 150kW charger at Narbonne I found the following prices dependant upon what card or app I used to initiate the charge:
  • 69 cents per kWh (no timing charge)
  • 40 cents per kWh with a 4 cents per minute useage charge
  • 35 cents per kWh with a 35 cent one off and 2 cents per minute useage charge
  • Time based only at 3.24 pence per minute (£1.75 for 54 minutes attached but only a 24 minute charge - I went to have dinner!)
The last one was the option I took, which was with Electroverse (what used to be the Octopus charge app) and bills to my UK bank account, but to be honest, I had no idea how much it would cost me, that card worked while the others, whihc all said they would, in fact did not.

But seriousy, this is basically ridiculous - one has to have a phd in applied maths to work out which way to pay for a charge, whether via one of the (way too many) RFID cards in the glovebox, or the myriad of apps installed and what the cost will be. It's about time the EU got onboard here and legislated to bring this to an end - the prices charged should be clearly displayed at the Charge Point as it is for hydrocarbon based fuels and it should remain the same no matter what means the customer uses to purchase said charge.

At the moment, it's such a free-for-all it appears to be nothing less than legalised extortion to me.
Did you do the same planning to save yourself a penny here or 2 cents there in your ICE or just drive and enjoy the trip?

It’s a free market economy and businesses are trying to build a company, see what works (and what doesn’t) and for consumers to do what suits. It feels like you would complain if there was only one way and one price to pay “why isn’t somebody offering a deal somewhere “🧐😀
 
Did you do the same planning to save yourself a penny here or 2 cents there in your ICE or just drive and enjoy the trip?
What an absolutely stupid question, of course I do.

Would you pay €2 per liter when by driving 5 minutes further you could top up at €1.64? Would you just drive into a random filling station and pump 80 litres of dead dinasaurs into your tank with no idea how much it would cost you? Unless you are far richer than I and have money to burn then of course you wouldn't.

Fool.
 
@JohnInFrance

I agree with you - what an incredibly complex list of charges! I doubt anyone would be able to work out which option would be cheapest.

With how things are at the moment, I suspect most people are keeping an eye on the pennies and cents.

I am currently using a fuel app to check petrol prices daily - yesterday, I saved 7p a litre at a station on my journey, over the local supermarket price.

Something like that for electric top ups would be very handy!
 
I even know the price per mile of the fuel in the tank and work out if any extra journey is going to cost more than I'll save! Of course, that's when I've been stupid enough to let the tank run too low, as I try to fill up at the correct station as part of my normal routine.

It always amazes me when you have two stations within sight of each other and people are filling up at the more expensive one! Even if the company is paying - it's the principle!

Having said that, electric charging is really opaque. I wish they had the price in big numbers like a petrol station as you drive by and here in Portugal where they have the electric billed per kwh and then use of the charge point billed by time.... Arghhhhhh! I really hope we find something simpler (and cheaper) for when we do our first road trip - but as I'm still waiting for the car.... 🙄 🦖🦖🦕🦕🚙
 
I agree with you - what an incredibly complex list of charges! I doubt anyone would be able to work out which option would be cheapest.

Seconded. The cynic in me says that it's deliberate, but I can see why charging by time makes sense to avoid hogging.

I am currently using a fuel app to check petrol prices daily - yesterday, I saved 7p a litre at a station on my journey, over the local supermarket price.

About 4%, so 2p/kWh at current Rapid prices. Assuming that you put roughly the same number of kWh in as litres, the difference would have to remain at 7p but the % would be 14%.

Something like that for electric top ups would be very handy!

It'll come when there's sufficient competition and more people reliant on Rapid charging. Sadly at the moment we are still at the "lucky to find a working charger" stage.
 
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