Its amazing how ice drivers are environment experts

[m4rmite]

Most of my mates are luddites ?

Do they come out with the reason an ev is no good to them is the range.

Yet the furthest they drive is 30 miles to the airport for a holiday.

 

[Geo68]

Do they come out with the reason an ev is no good to them is the range.

Yet the furthest they drive is 30 miles to the airport for a holiday.

Yeah, get that all the time, ????

 

[MarkLynn]

Do they come out with the reason an ev is no good to them is the range.

Yet the furthest they drive is 30 miles to the airport for a holiday.

The other one is cost but if the look at the life time cost they struggle to argue that one so it's back to range and the earth being flat ,?

 

[m4rmite]

The other one is cost but if the look at the life time cost they struggle to argue that one so it's back to range and the earth being flat ,?

I understand the initial outlay but watching a late break show YouTube video, i think, compared a petrol and ev corsa from a 4? year lease.
The ev worked out about £50 a month cheaper to run over the lease period.

 

[Jto]

All I will say is that battery is recyclable and the rest of the car has about the same to recyclable as a ICE car but have you ever.seen a recyclable litre of fuel

 

[m4rmite]

All I will say is that battery is recyclable and the rest of the car has about the same to recyclable as a ICE car but have you ever.seen a recyclable litre of fuel

Yes if its just dirty .

Just remember though when people use creocote( new creosote) to treat their fences, its a mix if filtered used oil and and processed fuel oil.

If your ev isn't using oil then your fence is.

 

[Tim Falkiner]

Also factor in the disposal of lithium batteries as well as mining the stuff. I'm not against EVs in any shape or form, indeed driving one is a revelation. I'm merely pointing out that they are not as green as you'd think. Having said that there's no question that they are the future, unless a form of non polluting fuel for ICE engines can be found that could be manufactured cheaply, which isn't likely I'd admit.

It is true that lithium torch batteries get thrown away but (a) EV batteries are too heavy and (b) they do not fit in the rubbish bin.

 

[Tim Falkiner]

Getting bored with ice drivers telling me how bad my car is for the environment. Its amazing how they are experts in all things ev. When is it going to stop. Ah well, I'll just have to keep telling them to suck their exhaust pipes and see how long they last.
?

The automotive industry is bashing EVs on all media to buy time while they are re-gearing themselves to produce electric vehicles. Major car manufacturers have discontinued the development of new petrol engines and are flat-out designing new EVs.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

Getting bored with ice drivers telling me how bad my car is for the environment. Its amazing how they are experts in all things ev. When is it going to stop. Ah well, I'll just have to keep telling them to suck their exhaust pipes and see how long they last.
?

Its just a natural grieving process over the 'death' of ICE cars. Most will come to the acceptance stage in time.

 

[MarkLynn]

No no let them stay with ice cars, last evening I had to wait about 30 minutes to get on a charger at wetherby services, fist time I had to wait in 7 months, 7 month driving ev fuel cost £92 miles covered 9300, cost for previous Ice car same miles £1099 so don't tell them the more people switch the sooner Boris or whoever will need to start taxing ev's more to make up his shortfall in road tax and fuel duty. I like being different.

 

[Geo68]

Its just a natural grieving process over the 'death' of ICE cars. Most will come to the acceptance stage in time.

Most being the correct word, my mates are in the few ???

 

[Colin Maguire]

Getting bored with ice drivers telling me how bad my car is for the environment. Its amazing how they are experts in all things ev. When is it going to stop. Ah well, I'll just have to keep telling them to suck their exhaust pipes and see how long they last.
?

You are do right! They (ICE Car drivers!?) Know everything about all cars, and especially EV's! How did they accumulate such infallible knowledge?....They hear what they want to hear and disregard the FACTS!!! I have "friends" who still think EV's are a passing fad!!

 

[Geo68]

Oh, they'll never catch on. ?

 

[rogerco]

If you are going to quote p/mile you really need to include the capital cost of the vehicle. Currently I'm running at just under £2/mile having done 12,000 miles in 13 months.

My previous ICE which I had for about 2 years till it died ended at about 24p/mile, and the one before that I had from new for 14 years till that died ran out at 18.2p/mile - total lifetime costs including tax, tyres, servicing and £50 back from the scrap dealer at the end.

To match that the MG5 will need to get close to 140,000 miles with mostly free (local solar) leccy. At current rates that means about 11 years, by which time the battery will be getting pretty knackered.

Of course in 11 years the price of petrol might be around that of vintage champagne today plus all of the black swans (positive and negative) flying around just out of sight.

My point being that current p/mile for fuel only is a pretty meaningless comparison - the £5k (minimum) premium that you pay for a new EV rather than equivalent ICE is going to add 5p/mile over 100k miles anyway.

 

[MarkLynn]

Did you use the full list price as a guide for the 5 I have just done a projection and over 100k or 10 years my 5 will come in at 22ppm while a Kia Optima would be a minimum of 40ppm so a life time saving of 18k is impressive over 10 years.

 

[Geo68]

My last Tivoli cost me £800 for the first year road tax (or ever what they call it now), MG cost £0 so thats me up £800 already ?

 

[Robf]

If you are going to quote p/mile you really need to include the capital cost of the vehicle. Currently I'm running at just under £2/mile having done 12,000 miles in 13 months.

My previous ICE which I had for about 2 years till it died ended at about 24p/mile, and the one before that I had from new for 14 years till that died ran out at 18.2p/mile - total lifetime costs including tax, tyres, servicing and £50 back from the scrap dealer at the end.

To match that the MG5 will need to get close to 140,000 miles with mostly free (local solar) leccy. At current rates that means about 11 years, by which time the battery will be getting pretty knackered.

Of course in 11 years the price of petrol might be around that of vintage champagne today plus all of the black swans (positive and negative) flying around just out of sight.

My point being that current p/mile for fuel only is a pretty meaningless comparison - the £5k (minimum) premium that you pay for a new EV rather than equivalent ICE is going to add 5p/mile over 100k miles anyway.

Do you also have to factor in the higher resale value of an EV over an ICE?

 

[EVsince2016]

I've always kept figures for running costs of my cars.

My 1st 3 cars did not have today's fuel economy so on fuel alone would exceed my current p/mile costs. Servicing / repair costs were also very high.

My last 3 diesels I ran into the ground, gave 2 away & the last was a p/ex for my 1st EV. I only considered capital, tax, service & maintenance plus fuel costs all others being equal. Reliability was an issue. 2 of these cost well in excess of my 1st EV per month to own, the 3rd beat it, well it was the best car I owned pre-EV

I bought a Nissan LEAF on PCP in 2016 and it cost less per month to own than all bar one of my old ICE cars but was new & much better. Each subsequent EV has been cheaper per month than the last to own.

My last EV a Nissan LEAF 40kw cost 58.7p/mile on fuel + capital. There was no tax, mot, maintenance, one free service and a cheap minor service. Lets say 60p/mile.

My MG5 is running at £1.32 per mile after 3000 miles and that will drop significantly as I do the miles ending at around 45p/mile at the end of the PCP.

If I kept them for life, those rates would continue to drop.

We also have to remember that residual values of EVs are high, petrol is starting to drop & diesels have sunk. That trend will widen & capital values of ICE cars will plummet.

 

[jamesie]

Interesting discussion.

I have never kept a lifetime cost for a vehicle. So, can't really contribute.

However, I do like to drive past a filling station showing almost £2 per litre for diesel!

 

[Rocinante]

If you are going to quote p/mile you really need to include the capital cost of the vehicle. Currently I'm running at just under £2/mile having done 12,000 miles in 13 months.

My previous ICE which I had for about 2 years till it died ended at about 24p/mile, and the one before that I had from new for 14 years till that died ran out at 18.2p/mile - total lifetime costs including tax, tyres, servicing and £50 back from the scrap dealer at the end.

To match that the MG5 will need to get close to 140,000 miles with mostly free (local solar) leccy. At current rates that means about 11 years, by which time the battery will be getting pretty knackered.

Of course in 11 years the price of petrol might be around that of vintage champagne today plus all of the black swans (positive and negative) flying around just out of sight.

My point being that current p/mile for fuel only is a pretty meaningless comparison - the £5k (minimum) premium that you pay for a new EV rather than equivalent ICE is going to add 5p/mile over 100k miles anyway.

I recognise your point, and I am currently trying to weigh up the numbers myself. However, your figures really aren't a good basis for that argument.

• You've got you're EV costing you £2/mile over 12000 miles, which isn't true, as you still have an asset worth probably at lease £23,000. So if you sold up now, your cost so far is probably closer to 8p/mile at the minute.
• I recognise that to match your previous 18.2p/mile, that takes you to around the 140,000 miles as described, but that compares the cost of buying a new car today, versus the cost of a new car 16 years ago, and the running costs over that period, before fuel prices were nearing £2/l.
• Your 5p/mile premium is perhaps reasonable, but an ICE in fuel will cost at least 14p/mile in fuel alone nowadays, and there are people on here talking about 1p/mile for 'fuel' with their EV, with solar and or free charging. 5p/mile plugging it in off the grid at home is not unreasonable, but using this and adding the 'premium' takes you to 10p/mile, so you're still 4p ahead of the ICE before taking in the cost of servicing that ICE. (you've still got capital costs to add to this, but for comparison purposes the 'premium' takes account of that)
• Energy prices are on the up for both electricity and fuel, and depreciation is another factor to assess, then you've got potential tax implications as ICE use decreases, and EV use goes up, so there is a lot to weigh up.

So I agree with the principal that fuel costs alone, are not the full picture and need taken in to account, but you need to compare apples and apples and not apples and oranges.