MG4 Range

[ukslim]

EVs are still far too complicated and technical for people used to just filling up at the garage. I am not saying they couldn't learn it but many won't and don't want to try.

To be an EV owner, just for "filling up" you have to wrap your head around:

• Battery/range option: which do I need?
• Battery chemistry and relationship to charging (range vs health charges).
• Chargers: grannies, home chargers, public AC chargers, tethered, untethered, rapid chargers.
• Charger networks and apps: installing, configuring, finding chargers, route planning, contactless cards, different rates and memberships.
• Route planning apps: stops, charger availability, are they working, busy periods, peak/off peak.
• Charge schedules: cheap rates, EV tariffs, trade offs vs personal usage.
• Cables: single phase, 3 phase, 16A, 32A.
• Charge curves, preheating, battery balancing.
• Type 2, CCS, Chademo connectors.

Totally agree, but I think there's cause to be optimistic. A lot of these, while definitely a problem today, are going away:

• Range/health charges can be simplified to "80% usually, 100% when you need it" - MG4 already has that in the app.
• Battery chemistry, forget about it. Above point is all you need to know.
• Charger networks and apps, new regs should sort it so you just need contactless. Apps for loyalty points, discounts, subscriptions etc. maybe, but all that's optional.
• Route planning:
  • Step 1, ZapMap/ABRP-like functionality will appear in Google Maps/Apple Maps which people are already using
  • Step 2, it'll become redundant as chargers become more ubiquitous. Just expect to find ultra-rapid chargers at every services. Just expect to be able to "drive until we see one" when your charge hits 20%.
• Charge tariffs - some way to go, but I think they'll crack it. Something akin to Intelligent Octopus, suitable for a mass market.
• Charge curves, preheating, battery balancing - ignorable for most.
• Connectors - well, Chademo is dead as far as I'm concerned. So there's only two types, "slow" and "fast" - and you don't need to worry about "fast" because it's attached to the public chargers.

 

[Rolfe]

I like learning new things. (And I am educated to doctoral level, so I find it easy to cope with.) And I like this new way of motoring, having leisurely breaks rather than tanking on. I used to feel very twitchy when stopped on a long journey, come on, we're wasting time, let's get going. But if you're charging your car - do you fancy dessert?

I don't think the potential to sell stuff to EV drivers while they're waiting for their cars to charge has been anything like fully understood by a hell of a lot of people.

 

[ukslim]

• Route planning:
  • Step 1, ZapMap/ABRP-like functionality will appear in Google Maps/Apple Maps which people are already using
  • Step 2, it'll become redundant as chargers become more ubiquitous. Just expect to find ultra-rapid chargers at every services. Just expect to be able to "drive until we see one" when your charge hits 20%.

On this, I'm watching with interest what happens to ZapMap, ABRP etc.

The new government regs will make the networks publish charger status to an API. It'll be pretty easy to make a map like ZapMap's. Google Maps is bound to put in charger-hunting at some point, when they decide there's enough EV drivers on the road I guess. When that happens, ZapMap is either dead, or it pulls some amazing differentiator out of the bag. The biggest thing they have, I guess, is the community they've built, and the user check-ins, status reports etc.

Most likely, I guess, is that Google/whoever buys them, the same way they bought Waze. And integrates the data into Maps, either killing the ZapMap app or keeping it in parallel, again like Waze.

And then, a few years later, all that becomes unnecessary except in exceptional journeys where you're (a) going a very long way, and (b) a big part of it is away from major roads

 

[Rolfe]

There are already more EV charging stations than there are petrol stations, certainly if you count type 2 chargers. I suppose there might be an app somewhere that tells drivers where there are petrol stations, but I never needed it. I could drive to any town and find one within a couple of minutes cruising around. They're not exactly subtle.

Right now we need the apps to find the chargers. They're squirrelled away in corners where you can easily drive past without seeing them, with no signposts. Even at motorway service stations! We also need the apps to tell us what's available - is it just type 2, or are there DC facilities? What do we need to do to pay? It's absolutely insane that all public chargers weren't mandated to take bank cards from the get-go.

I envisage that the time will come when EV charging stations are more obvious, because they have signs. Prices, and services offered. Some will be ICE filling stations repurposed, and will keep the canopy and the shop, and this will be attractive to drivers. We may get to the point where we can just take off and start thinking about finding a charger when we get down to 10%, secure in the knowledge that there will be one within range. Or barrel down the motorway knowing that whichever service station we choose, we will be able to get on an ultra-fast charger without a wait, just as we knew we could get petrol there without a wait.

That time is not now, of course. But I don't think we should complacently accept what we've got ("If you don't like the charging facilities you shouldn't have bought an EV, we're all pioneers, proud of our resilience") and keeping up the pressure to improve will pay dividends.

 

[ukslim]

I think we're right on the cusp of this.

Got to remember that most of us are too young to have experienced when petrol stations were rare enough that drivers needed a map - when might that have been? 1960s maybe?

Then as more people got cars, more petrol stations were built, and we reached the point where you just knew you'd pass one. And you got a feel for the sort of places you'd expect to find one, so if you didn't see one on the A-road, you'd drive into town and follow your nose to one.

And then petrol tanks got bigger, so people filled up less often, so they don't need to be so frequent, and loads of them have closed down (numbers down 56% between 2000 and 2022).

I think we're in the middle of a big surge in charger rollout. Recent experience in Devon shows there are rapid chargers you can just stumble upon -- that ZapMap hasn't heard about yet. It's disappointing that you can't roll into any old motorway services and find a 150kW charger. But you can pretty much expect to find a 50kW one, and I'll be amazed if that's not fixed by this time next year.

 

[Deleted member 12821]

I don't think the potential to sell stuff to EV drivers while they're waiting for their cars to charge has been anything like fully understood by a hell of a lot of people.

This is very true, particularly away from the motorway network. I live in a smallish village but which is on a fairly popular tourist route. The local pub/restaurant sits right on the main road, and is constantly struggling for business. It would be so easy for them to install a fast charger or two in the car park and tap into the footfall that ZapMap, ABRP and now Google would bring. But I bet they've never even considered it because the awareness just isn't there yet.

 

[Rolfe]

This is very true, particularly away from the motorway network. I live in a smallish village but which is on a fairly popular tourist route. The local pub/restaurant sits right on the main road, and is constantly struggling for business. It would be so easy for them to install a fast charger or two in the car park and tap into the footfall that ZapMap, ABRP and now Google would bring. But I bet they've never even considered it because the awareness just isn't there yet.

There's a wee café just next to our village charge point. I've sometimes wondered if the presence of the charge point has increased their business, but the charger isn't heavily used, and I think it's mainly people who live nearby and walk home while the car is charging. Although having said that, if I lived more than 400 yards from the thing, I might be tempted to pop into the café to save myself the walk.

I was thinking more about business opportunities coming with chargers - if ICE drivers merit a mini-supermarket at every petrol station, why not something similar, or a coffee shop, for EV drivers? But your point is a good one. Booth's, the upmarket supermarket chain in the north of England, have installed several Instavolts in all their car parks. I suspect it has drawn people to the shops who would otherwise have driven straight past. They certainly got some custom out of me.

I think we're right on the cusp of this.

Got to remember that most of us are too young to have experienced when petrol stations were rare enough that drivers needed a map - when might that have been? 1960s maybe?

Then as more people got cars, more petrol stations were built, and we reached the point where you just knew you'd pass one. And you got a feel for the sort of places you'd expect to find one, so if you didn't see one on the A-road, you'd drive into town and follow your nose to one.

And then petrol tanks got bigger, so people filled up less often, so they don't need to be so frequent, and loads of them have closed down (numbers down 56% between 2000 and 2022).

I think we're in the middle of a big surge in charger rollout. Recent experience in Devon shows there are rapid chargers you can just stumble upon -- that ZapMap hasn't heard about yet. It's disappointing that you can't roll into any old motorway services and find a 150kW charger. But you can pretty much expect to find a 50kW one, and I'll be amazed if that's not fixed by this time next year.

I don't remember my dad needing a map to find a petrol station in the 1960s, but then how often did we drive long enough to need to fuel away from home? (We lived two doors down from a petrol station.) I think you could find petrol stations in most towns by the 60s though. I remember my mother saying scathing things about a nice wee row of houses being converted into a petrol station here there and everywhere. I think post-war things really got moving. But before then, yes, it was an exercise.

I think you're right about being on the cusp. My jaw dropped when I drove into Gretna services expecting a couple of Gridserves and saw a bank of six brand new 350 Kw Applegreen chargers (12 connectors) in front of them. (My attempt to get a charge from one of these didn't go so well, but hopefully that was just a blip.) Same thing at Abington, but it was eight chargers, 16 connectors. And the building work next to the existing chargers at Annandale Water suggests the same is about to happen there.

 

[Torryhun]

On the other hand in some cases it could not be simpler, plugged in at home, drive it, plug in at home, drive it & so on

 

[ukslim]

On the other hand in some cases it could not be simpler, plugged in at home, drive it, plug in at home, drive it & so on

Absolutely, but it's a double edged sword.

• If you can charge at home, you have a lovely low-effort experience. Until you make that occasional longer journey, and then you're not used to having to deal with this stuff
• (As the EV naysayers love to remind us) there's people who don't have off-street parking, nor can they even park in the same space every day. But routine near-home charging is a different topic from this range topic.
• (As the EV naysayers also love to remind us) there's people who routinely drive long distances on unfamiliar routes (although my attitude to them is, "fine, drive ICE or hybrid until the charging network is ready for you")

 

[Rolfe]

One of the main reasons I bought my EV was home charging. The nearest petrol station where I live is nine miles away. It's 24 miles in the direction of Glasgow. It's absolutely joyous.

I also deliberately went out and used public chargers, and took a trip to see a friend who lives in Yorkshire and stay for a few days, partly to show off the car, but mainly to suss out motorway charging possibilities and destination charging near her house. This paid off. But there's no doubt that long cross-country journeys become more difficult and take longer. I reckoned this was worth it for all the advantages.

I think there are problems for older people who aren't very tech-savvy though, and remember that 50% of the population has a below-average IQ. It needs to be made a lot simpler. EV driving is not for everyone, yet. It's not for my friend in Glasgow who lives in a terraced house in the middle of a charging desert, although she wants an EV. It was only after getting mine that I realised what a hard time she would have, and advised her to put the idea on hold. It's not for someone who regularly drives distances in one day that are longer than the range of their car.

These problems can and will be tackled though. More ultra-rapid chargers on or near main through routes. Lots more AC charge points within easy walk of people's homes. Making public charging more affordable, especially on AC chargers. And that's not even thinking about the predictions of large batteries that will charge in ten minutes, and so on.

Exciting times.

 

[Diggsy]

On my SE SR, I have just over 2k miles on the ‘accumulated total’ screen. Shows 4.0 miles /kWh, which I’m more than happy with. As my first EV, I drive it much the same as I always did my ICE cars before it, and the AC is always on, set to auto. Really pleased with that so far.

 

[Rolfe]

My accumulated total screen somehow got reset, so I can't tell!

 

[PristDean]

Most of today's people approaching or just entering retirement have been pioneers within technology. So many will be able to quickly adapt and change from MPG to KW/H in a new screen based EV quite easily
The generation behind have grown up with and worked with matured technology in an ever changing market place. It will all be almost second nature to them
The generation before them, as a kid they can pick up a tablet, swipe & click,.... as an adult they will collect their new car, swipe & click.... charge their new car, swipe & click.

 

[Deleted member 10041]

On this, I'm watching with interest what happens to ZapMap, ABRP etc.

The new government regs will make the networks publish charger status to an API. It'll be pretty easy to make a map like ZapMap's. Google Maps is bound to put in charger-hunting at some point, when they decide there's enough EV drivers on the road I guess. When that happens, ZapMap is either dead, or it pulls some amazing differentiator out of the bag. The biggest thing they have, I guess, is the community they've built, and the user check-ins, status reports etc.

Most likely, I guess, is that Google/whoever buys them, the same way they bought Waze. And integrates the data into Maps, either killing the ZapMap app or keeping it in parallel, again like Waze.

And then, a few years later, all that becomes unnecessary except in exceptional journeys where you're (a) going a very long way, and (b) a big part of it is away from major roads

My cars software is Google, I'm just back from a long trip round Scotland. Whenever I was planning a charge I just typed in the charger type I was after and it gave me options with the percentage my battery was going to be when it got there this obviously has the ability to precondition the car battery, if required, for me arriving.
Charger status will be the next logical step

 

[Retsiba]

Right now we need the apps to find the chargers. They're squirrelled away in corners where you can easily drive past without seeing them, with no signposts. Even at motorway service stations! We also need the apps to tell us what's available - is it just type 2, or are there DC facilities? What do we need to do to pay? It's absolutely insane that all public chargers weren't mandated to take bank cards from the get-go.

To be fair I think the pace of change is really good and even some cars don't need the apps as they have it integrated in their maps.
Most cars have apps and that is also great but it will be the standard for all cars soon to integrate it into their navigation or dashboard so people can see every charger.

I've driven past chargers and see on my dashboard there is a charger I'm driving past and it tells me what type of charger it is and if compatible with the preset charge card/stations for the car so there is no need to even bother stopping by if I know I'm not "ready" to use that charger. They are a lot less conspicuous than fuel stations as you said but in the next 2 to 3 years most of these complaints or concerns will be made redundant.

The network is expanding, and as you rightly noted we already have more charging stations than fuel stations and regulations will even make things better. I was having a discussion with a friend who talked about the queues at service stations last Christmas meaning we are not ready for a full EV transition. I told him it's like going to airports or the train stations during the holiday season. It's always busier. The smart thing is to plan your trip to actually go to the smaller stations that won't see much traffic compared to the bigger ones.

It's all attitudinal. EVs just make you plan better and dare I say it's even safer because on long journeys where people travel distances through fatigue in ICE vehicles, sometimes unconsciously because there's no real reason to stop, you are almost forced to plan a stop for charging and this helps to get a rest, food and stretch limbs as required/needed.

Charger status will be the next logical step

Certainly is here already. On my way back from Manchester last month I had planned to use the Ionity at the Gretna services, I think there were 4 of them and 20 or so miles away I was seeing 3 were available, but when I was about 4 miles away I checked again and it was showing all busy so I was ready to go to Applegreen but just a minute away from my exit or so I saw it show 2 available again and when I pulled in there were indeed 2 available Ionity chargers.

The systems are really improving daily. But it's not surprising because the technological leap in the last 5 years generally is way more than we have seen in 2 decades

 

[Rolfe]

I don't have a navigation option on display because my phone doesn't support Android Auto. I really must do something about that. I do like to know in advance where I'm going though.

I think you're right about the pace of change. When I drove into Gretna services, expecting to see a couple of Gridserves, my jaw dropped as I was greeted in addition by six Applegreen chargers, twelve connectors. Same thing at Abington, only eight Applegreen chargers. These service stations were also busier than the ones with only a couple of Gridserves so I reckon people knew, even though the Applegreen ones weren't on ZapMap.

 

[Vingnut]

Had our first long trip in our Luxury/Trophy this week, 650km/403mls each way 8 hours 46min plus charging and other stops (10 somthing hours total).

We have done this trip for years now and this was the easiest by far, we never had to wait for the car to finish charging.
One way we charged where ABRP told us (3 stops), but on our way home I decided to go for tesla chargers only (2 stops to 95 and 91%soc because we was not ready before) and not charge at any other stops.
Both ways we started with 100% soc but that I see is not necessary as we could easely add a 10 min stop at a Tesla charger a couple hours in to the trip on our way home.
Tesla chargers are king in my opinion, it's so simple and the app do report soc % to so one have full controll at minimum hassle (and at the time here in Norway 1-2 NOK cheaper than the rest.

 

[Rolfe]

I see the government may be going to tell Tesla they have to let everyone use their chargers.

 

[Deleted member 10041]

I see the government may be going to tell Tesla they have to let everyone use their chargers.

They potentially will just make non Tesla drivers pay more to use them.
That could discourage drivers to look elsewhere but Tesla can say they are open to everyone, a bit like they do just now with the monthly subscription offering a discounted rate.

 

[Rolfe]

Good point.