Pay per mile

[seye]

There was an interesting traffic management scheme in a UK city where average speed cameras were installed for 'safety' reasons. Average speed did fall by 5mph, which meant stage 2 couldn't be implemented as revenue from fines had decreased so much the expensive anpr system couldn't be afforded. The use case was safety, yeah of course it was



Anpr is in cities and motorways. Its not everywhere. It would cost a fortune to do that and cover all possible routes. It's easy for boundaries like conjestion zones but not normal travel



I am of a generation where you took work wherever it is. Like many outside major cities I don't have access to public transport so rely on a car, as dose my wife. We both have to travel 50 plus miles everyday each way. We could get more local jobs paying far less. We would then pay a lot less tax, so where is the government gain?



We, like many others, also provide regular home care to relatives who are over 50 miles away too. That so not happen of priced out of reason, so social care budget for the country will go up.



I have made choices re cars etc to keep the economics viable. If the economics change



My son lives 200 miles away. That could become an expensive visit.
His experience of black boxes for young driver insurance was far from encouraging. We had to challenge errors repeatedly using dashcam footage. There is a tendency to believe tech, but it's not always right



There are lots of consequences to changing systems. I just hope the Westminster elite take a national view rather than a London centric one

 

[Les burrows]

After 11 months of EV ownership with my MG5, up to now I have been very happy with my running costs for over the last 10,000 plus miles, then tonight I come across this thread ( Pay per mile ) and after reading through it, I now feel very depressed, and worried at what might be on the cards ahead of us.

Plus also at the thought that somewhere in Westminster someone will be reading up on some of these ideas and suggestions, of ways to tax road users they will then make a list off them to save the so called very clever and very well paid people who work in Westminster from even having to think of them for themselves, please let’s give it a rest and write about the good sides of owning a vehicle.
And enjoy it while we can.
Les

 

[Alb]

There is great certainty in what the future holds for us all.
More tax and our eventual demise

 

[chowbenter]

There is great certainty in what the future holds for us all.
More tax and our eventual demise

I was reading about another proposal regarding the 'Time charge' in the congestion segment of the upcoming VED changes that said if you drive in congested peak commuter times & there is a viable public transport service available irrespective of the type of car you drive you would be subject to higher charges.

 

[Alb]

I could live with that but you might have to wait many decades before the viable public transport network existed!

 

[Johncc]

There is great certainty in what the future holds for us all.
More tax and our eventual demise

Death and taxes - an oasis of certainly in a changing world

 

[chowbenter]

I could live with that but you might have to wait many decades before the viable public transport network existed!

We have a great public transport service locally, I'm going on the local guided busway this afternoon into Manchester with my sister. It's Greater Manchester's integrated system.
I usually go on the train into the city but they say this is quicker as all the traffic lights are in the buses favour.

 

[GaryV99]

Do we think if they do try and go down a pay per mile, that current EV’s are “grandfathered in” so don’t have to pay? I just remember my old car with it’s small engine size was exempt from road tax, even when they moved the goalposts so new cars with same engine size had to pay road tax.

Or is that wishful thinking

 

[Alan]

We have a great public transport service locally, I'm going on the local guided busway this afternoon into Manchester with my sister. It's Greater Manchester's integrated system.
I usually go on the train into the city but they say this is quicker as all the traffic lights are in the buses favour.

My wife worked on that

 

[Les burrows]

Well you can tell I have not been out and about much in my own area of the UK because I live in this area and I knew nothing about this thank you Chowbenter
One question how are these vehicles powered? Hopefully not with that back stuff..
They did have a very similar idea in my home town of St Helens and other towns in many areas of the UK many years ago when I was but a lad it was called a Trolley Bus and I loved to watch them go buy with the electric pickups on roof sparking like mad as they went along. Might come back one day you never know
Les

 

[Kithmo]

Do we think if they do try and go down a pay per mile, that current EV’s are “grandfathered in” so don’t have to pay? I just remember my old car with it’s small engine size was exempt from road tax, even when they moved the goalposts so new cars with same engine size had to pay road tax.

Or is that wishful thinking

If they grandfather EVs in they'll have to grandfather all cars in.

 

[busta999]

All becomes moot, as the next revolution in automobiles is around the corner, autonomous self driving cars, and the idea of purchasing a car and watching depreciate as it sits idle on the drive for 23 hours a day.

So the impact on us will be the cost per mile we pay for the self driving car when it swings by to pick us up.

 

[Edoc16]

All becomes moot, as the next revolution in automobiles is around the corner, autonomous self driving cars, and the idea of purchasing a car and watching depreciate as it sits idle on the drive for 23 hours a day.

So the impact on us will be the cost per mile we pay for the self driving car when it swings by to pick us up.

One way or another guys/gals, we'll have to pay up - as the government will do the same as they did with diesel encourage us to change over to a lower price then raise the price till its now dearer than petrol, thankfully I don't buy either...so enjoy while it lasts

 

[chowbenter]

Well you can tell I have not been out and about much in my own area of the UK because I live in this area and I knew nothing about this thank you Chowbenter
One question how are these vehicles powered? Hopefully not with that back stuff..
They did have a very similar idea in my home town of St Helens and other towns in many areas of the UK many years ago when I was but a lad it was called a Trolley Bus and I loved to watch them go buy with the electric pickups on roof sparking like mad as they went along. Might come back one day you never know
Les
View attachment 6679View attachment 6680View attachment 6681

Yes they're still diesel buses, the funding is still ongoing to get the diesel buses retired for plug in buses & all electric buses, £20 on the council tax has been banded about & my OAP concessionary "free" travel pass is now £10/year if I wanted to travel on the trams (still free for train & bus)

Great trip into Manchester today, It's very quick & the active walk/cycle way that runs alongside is well used with lots of bicycles today.

 

[Les burrows]

Yes they're still diesel buses, the funding is still ongoing to get the diesel buses retired for plug in buses & all electric buses, £20 on the council tax has been banded about & my OAP concessionary "free" travel pass is now £10/year if I wanted to travel on the trams (still free for train & bus)

Great trip into Manchester today, It's very quick & the active walk/cycle way that runs alongside is well used with lots of bicycles today.

No chowbenter sorry the trains are no longer covered by the bus pass for train or tram travel in TFGM you need to pay £10 for that unless you have a disable pass.
And as they are still diesel buses well I won’t be using them I will take my car emissions free. But thank you again for the information.
Les

 

[marcopolomt]

I find the whole subject infuriating. For years government has collected vastly more in revenue from motorists than it spends on road infrastructure. Just look at the dreadful state of the roads. That's a whole other argument though.

We can already see future revenue streams. Government is going to lose from fuel duty and VAT on fuel, but it gains elsewhere.

Some VAT is recouped from increased home charging, more so from public chargers. It is vastly less than fuel duty and VAT though.

We then have a much larger VAT amount on car purchases. We are typically paying double the VAT vs an equivalent ICE vehicle. This is several thousand pounds per new vehicle!

Another money spinner is congestion charges and the like, that's a large source of income from city drivers.

Is it really worth the cost of setting up a pay per mile system when the above largely do similar? The more you drive (especially in cities), the more you pay. Any shortfall can be made up with increased annual vehicle tax. The system change to monthly payments certainly facilitates this. If all cars pay a basic £240 a year that's just £20/month via direct debit. No need for complicated ANPR and variable billing. This can be adjusted according to any metric government desires. maybe £400-500 would be more common, and more in line with lost fuel duty and VAT?

 

[chowbenter]

No chowbenter sorry the trains are no longer covered by the bus pass for train or tram travel in TFGM you need to pay £10 for that unless you have a disable pass.
And as they are still diesel buses well I won’t be using them I will take my car emissions free. But thank you again for the information.
Les

Yes that's what I pay £10/year for train & tram travel. I thought it was £10 just for tram travel.

 

[sido]

Most of us will have taken advantage of the subsidy to buy EV’s and possibly charging points. A big factor in my choice was cost per mile versus my ICE. I bought mine at the end of August 2021. At that point, electricity for charging at home could be as low as 1p per mile meaning it was no brainier to chop in the gas guzzler and buy a new EV with no road tax either. So at present I am paying 21p per KWHr roughly equal to 6 p per mile for my electricity at home and due to go up in April, say by 50% to say 9p a mile. So an 800% increase For me since I thought about buying an EV.
Increasing the cost of using an EV, by whatever means, will result in lowering the demand and if the UK wants to meet its carbon emissions targets this most certainly will not help one bit. Neither will it help the economy grow.
At the moment even with the cost of home charging, the EV is economical to run, those running them have more disposable income as a consequence and if that is spent buying things in the Uk it will provide the tax man with much more benefit than if that money was simply paid in tax. That is one transaction on which the Government get 0%tax. The same money spent by a consumer could have tax applied 20 times depending on items purchased, but for example 20% vat, retailer corporation tax and so on. As soon as money goes to the treasury it is dead money. Making transport cheaper may just keep some people out of debt given inflation rates so I would like to see taxation subsidy for all transport, rather than heavy handed levies on those who are doing their bit to clean up this very messy world we live in. And as road repairs and who should pay for those, well I would need another hour to write that one up! I would however like to see council forcing the utility companies to come back and make good poorly backfilled trenches etc etc etc, because if they don’t we end paying for that anyway.

 

[Kithmo]

Taxed.

 

[m4rmite]

Fuel and excise duty must be replaced with new tax, MPs say

The UK will be left with a £35bn "black hole" as motorists switch to electric cars, says Transport committee.

www.bbc.co.uk

Looks like the transport committee read things on here