So OTA update is a lie?

[Lovemyev]

OTA updates can only be carried out for the info unit, no map updates or any interaction with any control modules in the car, is my understanding.
I have to agree with @JCFlippen.
Some dealers even had problems applying BMS updates manually to the original ZS EV which caused problems for both them and the owners.
We still have Gen 1 models running around on different BMS software updates even now.
The approach appears to be, unless there is a problem with the car, or the customer requests a software update, they tend to steer away from the whole process.
Some customers have seen charging issues and bricking on the new face lift model.
Miles has suggested that some early facelift models, could be running on a different software version than latter produced cars !.
Some of these cars have been sitting around a while, awaiting modules / head units.
Before announcing the release of the facelift model MG used a camouflaged ZS EV facelift and did 12,000 miles driving around the U.K. trying all the different charges available, checking there protocol compatibility with the car.

 

[hmadsen]

Strange that these manufacturers have so many problems with updating modules in a car.

My phone, robot vacuum, internet router, wifi hotspots, networks switches, floor heating, light controller, television, computer, and a whole slew of other devices regularily update themselves, and very very very rarely does anything go wrong.

I wonder why they have made BMS'es and modules like that, so "clunky" that it's "dangerous" to update them.

If Tesla and VW can do it, it must be a matter or skills, or the lack thereof, to make it work

As long as my car drives as it should i dont care much about updates, but if there is something safety related, or related to the durability of components in the car, i would want it updated.

I was told by the seller, that part of the yearly service at MG, was to update the different modules, containing software, but i guess that could largely be just the seller "bragging" to get a sell.

 

[Lovemyev]

it must be a matter or skills, or the lack thereof, to make it work

As long as my car drives as it should i dont care much about updates, but if there is something safety related, or related to the durability of components in the car, i would want it updated.

I was told by the seller, that part of the yearly service at MG, was to update the different modules, containing software, but i guess that could largely be just the seller "bragging" to get a sell.

I think in a lot of cases, it not the software or the car.
But what is between the both of of them, is the problem .
My local dealer has been completely honest and said that they only apply updates, at the time of service IF the owner requests them or there is problem with the car, or by direct instruction from MG themselves.
If it's running okay, then leave well alone appears to be the order of the day.
Some tech's have never seen an electric car until the ZS EV arrived let alone fixed one !.
"Top Tip" - Try and choose a dealer who has tech's with experience of working on electric cars in the past.
A lot of dealers have multi franchise sites today.
E.G :- Nissan ( due to the Leaf ) are a good example of tech's who have a good understanding of how electric cars work.
There is no replacement for good old experience in my mind.

 

[hmadsen]

I think in a lot of cases, it not the software or the car.
But what is between the both of of them, is the problem .
My local dealer has been completely honest and said that they only apply updates, at the time of service IF the owner requests them or there is problem with the car, or by direct instruction from MG themselves.
If it's running okay, then leave well alone appears to be the order of the day.
Some tech's have never seen an electric car until the ZS EV arrived let alone fixed one !.
"Top Tip" - Try and choose a dealer who has tech's with experience of working on electric cars in the past.
A lot of dealers have multi franchise sites today.
E.G :- Nissan ( due to the Leaf ) are a good example of tech's who have a good understanding of how electric cars work.
There is no replacement for good old experience in my mind.

The MG certified workshop they suggest using here, has been doing maintenance and service on a lot of Mk1 so they should have some understanding of how electric cars work.

I just don't hope, the problems with bricking of modules when updating, has put them off when it comes to servicing my car.

To be honest i would prefer, always to have the latest firmware in all of the modules.

Yes it works, but if there is a BMS update, it might affect the longevity of the batteries and so on.

I am for sure going to enquire about an update for the fast charger bricking problem that seems to have hit a fair amount of users. Especially as there is now speculation that it might be because of some earlier versions of firmware, and my car came with a Q3 2020 map in the infotainment, kind of suggesting that it might have been sitting idle for a while and might have old firmware in the modules.

 

[Lambo51]

The MG certified workshop they suggest using here, has been doing maintenance and service on a lot of Mk1 so they should have some understanding of how electric cars work.

I just don't hope, the problems with bricking of modules when updating, has put them off when it comes to servicing my car.

To be honest i would prefer, always to have the latest firmware in all of the modules.

Yes it works, but if there is a BMS update, it might affect the longevity of the batteries and so on.

I am for sure going to enquire about an update for the fast charger bricking problem that seems to have hit a fair amount of users. Especially as there is now speculation that it might be because of some earlier versions of firmware, and my car came with a Q3 2020 map in the infotainment, kind of suggesting that it might have been sitting idle for a while and might have old firmware in the modules.

I spoke to dealer today, they said no updates required.I’ve had car about a month

 

[djenson]

To use the site for positive contributions and questions.

What a stupid thing to say. People are allowed to critique things about the damn car, especially when they have been directly told a car has a feature, just to find out it hasn't.

Being able to update critical systems of the car OTA is fraught with danger and the possibility of hackers doing something to your car.

Yes, because I've seen a ton of teslas, Lucids, VW's eta being hacked OTA. With the amount of people plugging in cheap chinese OBD2 connectors into their cars, I think that the manufacture equipped OTA functionality should be the least of most people's concerns. Not to mention that OTA is the least of concerns for me. Even my old ICE mini was about to send every single bit of information about the car to BMW. Driving style, speed, throttle/steering position, every single bit of diagnostic info on the car, they were also about to push commands to the car, though I don't even know the extent that this covers.. Disabling modules? ECU changes?

If you're frightened of being "Hacked" I suggest that you throw away any modern car made in that last 12 years away.

 

[Kithmo]

I'm on the other side of the fence with regards updates, I believe in the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
If an update fixes a problem then certainly update the car. If it enhances the car, I can take it or leave it. If I bought the car with the features it has and are happy with them then I'd rather leave it as is rather than risk introducing other problems.

 

[djenson]

I'm on the other side of the fence with regards updates, I believe in the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
If an update fixes a problem then certainly update the car. If it enhances the car, I can take it or leave it. If I bought the car with the features it has and are happy with them then I'd rather leave it as is rather than risk introducing other problems.

Very true. I heard about all of the commotion when tesla sent a OTA which wildly changed the UI, which many didn't like, with no option to revert. I definitely think that any OTA's should be an option, and not just installed automatically.

 

[Attorney58]

some guys here comparing the MG with Tesla. I am owner of MG ZS EV 2022 model and honestly I bought it because of its affortable price. Tesla's build quality was really bad and it was expensive. MG's software is not good as Tesla I think. As a MG user I dont know even how to update the map. Where is online map update? Where is online update of the system ? The only thing online is I think the weather =) Apart from this, regarding online information system nothing happens. Though, it is one of the best electric vehicle price and performance car (range, built quality, security features etc) in 2022.

 

[MichaelJHunt]

some guys here comparing the MG with Tesla. I am owner of MG ZS EV 2022 model and honestly I bought it because of its affortable price. Tesla's build quality was really bad and it was expensive. MG's software is not good as Tesla I think. As a MG user I dont know even how to update the map. Where is online map update? Where is online update of the system ? The only thing online is I think the weather =) Apart from this, regarding online information system nothing happens. Though, it is one of the best electric vehicle price and performance car (range, built quality, security features etc) in 2022.

 

[hmadsen]

some guys here comparing the MG with Tesla. I am owner of MG ZS EV 2022 model and honestly I bought it because of its affortable price. Tesla's build quality was really bad and it was expensive. MG's software is not good as Tesla I think. As a MG user I dont know even how to update the map. Where is online map update? Where is online update of the system ? The only thing online is I think the weather =) Apart from this, regarding online information system nothing happens. Though, it is one of the best electric vehicle price and performance car (range, built quality, security features etc) in 2022.

I dont see anyone saying that they wanted a tesla for the price of an MG.

I see people saying that it is strange that MG touts it's OTA updates, but do not send OTA updates, and that they limit it to very few of the cars "computers". Then some people say, that the reason they do not update OTA for all of the car is that it is very complex, and you risk bricking the car when doing so, and then some say "But Tesla has been doing this for years without a problem".

So Tesla is used more to say "Why do they claim it is hard to do software updates for the cars, when Tesla has literally been doing it for 10 years".

I dont care that the car does not get OTA updates for every module, as long as the car is plugged in, and updated when i take it in for the yearly service, but now it seems they wont even plug it in and update it, unless specifically asked for it.

 

[biffo]

I dont see anyone saying that they wanted a tesla for the price of an MG.

I see people saying that it is strange that MG touts it's OTA updates, but do not send OTA updates, and that they limit it to very few of the cars "computers". Then some people say, that the reason they do not update OTA for all of the car is that it is very complex, and you risk bricking the car when doing so, and then some say "But Tesla has been doing this for years without a problem".

So Tesla is used more to say "Why do they claim it is hard to do software updates for the cars, when Tesla has literally been doing it for 10 years".

I dont care that the car does not get OTA updates for every module, as long as the car is plugged in, and updated when i take it in for the yearly service, but now it seems they wont even plug it in and update it, unless specifically asked for it.

It really seems to be a difference in the mentality of the manufacture - Tesla are a software driven company that makes cars but the 'cool' factor seems to be their main focus (the idea of opening the glove box via the infotainment screen appalls me!!) and build quality has been slightly questionable for the asking price, especially when compared to rivals.

Issue with MG is that they're a conventional vehicle manufacturer that have moved into EVs, albeit at the budget end of the market - the price being their niche rather than the technology. Other traditional manufacturers are putting more effort into OTA updates but they're also charging a premium and have been building high end infotainment systems for a longer time than MG/SAIC have - and have more reason to focus on the software given they're competing with Tesla, who really are driving the market in this area.

As above people say though, I would like enhancements to be developed for existing cars and installed as part of annual service at dealership - but not sure this will happen as supporting existing customers rather than attracting new customers isn't a focus in a seller's marketplace.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Interesting! The EU MG specifically says "Firmware OTA upgrade" in included on the Luxury spec but not on the Comfort spec - MG ZS EV – Recharge Yourself

I haven't watched the podcast yet, but assuming the OTA situation is the same with the EU model as well, it is not unreasonable to assume that people would expect "OTA" to mean the same as it does for Tesla and VW. To argue otherwise is disingenuous, for sure. Though MG state they reserve the right to change anything they like ("MG reserves the right to change models, colours, specifications and equipment without prior notice and without obligation to change the cars already in the market."), if you want people to have confidence you have to communicate clearly.

Though it's not a deal breaker for me (I'm waiting for the lower spec model) I can certainly see the issue here. One the of few features I would have liked was OTA, so if I had have gone for the higher spec model I would have been disappointed, to say the least.

 

[hmadsen]

It really seems to be a difference in the mentality of the manufacture - Tesla are a software driven company that makes cars but the 'cool' factor seems to be their main focus (the idea of opening the glove box via the infotainment screen appalls me!!) and build quality has been slightly questionable for the asking price, especially when compared to rivals.

Issue with MG is that they're a conventional vehicle manufacturer that have moved into EVs, albeit at the budget end of the market - the price being their niche rather than the technology. Other traditional manufacturers are putting more effort into OTA updates but they're also charging a premium and have been building high end infotainment systems for a longer time than MG/SAIC have - and have more reason to focus on the software given they're competing with Tesla, who really are driving the market in this area.

As above people say though, I would like enhancements to be developed for existing cars and installed as part of annual service at dealership - but not sure this will happen as supporting existing customers rather than attracting new customers isn't a focus in a seller's marketplace.

The problem for me is not OTA or not OTA, it's more "If you promise OTA updates, i expect OTA updates"

Offcourse, if nothing is wrong, there is no need for updates, but for me atleast, the "infotainment OTA" to me suggested that they would maybe expand the capabilities of the infotainment via these OTA updates. Maybe add more streaming services besides Amazon, or something like that.

The "Why are they not more like tesla" part is more, wondering what makes it so hard for MG, when it is so "easy" for other car manufacturers and indeed most other "Hardware that runs on software" companies.

If they just gave me updates, and offcourse map updates for the satnav, i would be happy, but until now, they have not given anybody any OTA updates.

I wonder how long it will take without OTA updates, before someone would be able to claim "breach of contract" on the OTA UPDATE promise.

Allthough technically, they have only said "Can be updated OTA" instead of "Will be updated OTA"

 

[Lovemyev]

OTA is still possible of course, but they missed a bit off !.
It SHOULD have read - see foot of page*.
Brackets ( *infotainment system unit only ) .

 

[biffo]

The problem for me is not OTA or not OTA, it's more "If you promise OTA updates, i expect OTA updates"

Offcourse, if nothing is wrong, there is no need for updates, but for me atleast, the "infotainment OTA" to me suggested that they would maybe expand the capabilities of the infotainment via these OTA updates. Maybe add more streaming services besides Amazon, or something like that.

The "Why are they not more like tesla" part is more, wondering what makes it so hard for MG, when it is so "easy" for other car manufacturers and indeed most other "Hardware that runs on software" companies.

If they just gave me updates, and offcourse map updates for the satnav, i would be happy, but until now, they have not given anybody any OTA updates.

I wonder how long it will take without OTA updates, before someone would be able to claim "breach of contract" on the OTA UPDATE promise.

Allthough technically, they have only said "Can be updated OTA" instead of "Will be updated OTA"

It's all down to money I guess - anyone who compares an MG and it's software development capabilities to someone like Tesla, VW, BMW, etc are essentially comparing a top tier Apple phone to a generic, third-party Android device (certainly with the Gen 1 ZS and 5).

There definitely seemed to be some ambiguity from the outset about the capabilities of the OTA updates - and whether t would be infotainment or the entire car's systems. At this stage, sounds like it might be neither which is disappointing given how effective these can be at enhancing the owners experience

 

[hmadsen]

It's all down to money I guess - anyone who compares an MG and it's software development capabilities to someone like Tesla, VW, BMW, etc are essentially comparing a top tier Apple phone to a generic, third-party Android device (certainly with the Gen 1 ZS and 5).

There definitely seemed to be some ambiguity from the outset about the capabilities of the OTA updates - and whether t would be infotainment or the entire car's systems. At this stage, sounds like it might be neither which is disappointing given how effective these can be at enhancing the owners experience

To be honest, i would probably have bought the car even if they did not tout OTA or if it was not at all available, but they did and i am feeling a bit disapointed.

This ties into the disappointment, that is the ismart app.

Takes forever to connect, most times i have to force close the app and reopen or make it retry several times.

The app has not been updated since January, and they can hardly claim that it is because there is nothing to update


I dont know if the problem lies with the software in the car or the app, but this is certainly something i would expect to be upgradeable OTA, if it is the radio.
Complete silence for months and months does not bode well for the posibility of getting problems fixed, sadly.

There is one good thing though. SAIC is, as you say, a car company, so the hardware is quite good, and this is where Tesla really lacks behind, the "fit and finish" of Tesla's even today is often appaling.

You might say that Tesla is a computer company, making cars, and SAIC is a car company making cars.

I just wish that manufacturers that has made cars, would get better at making computers for their cars, and the computer companies would get better at making cars for their computers.

 

[Lovemyev]

I clearly remember picking up on something that Miles said on one of the Tuesday night pod cast's once, when he answered a question about OTA updates on the new facelift model.
He did say that in his own opinion, he thought that small updates SHOULD be possible via OTA updates, BUT larger module updates would still likely necessitate a visit to the dealer.
I think he already had a second sense that this was a tad ambitious by MG.
Personally, although it is a bit of a let down, it will only become a major issue if the car requires a series of updates, that needs a visit to the dealer every couple of months, when it could have been carried out via OTA updates of course.
I am MORE than happy if my car only has to pay a visit to the dealers once a year, for its annual service !.
Visit's means you are experiencing problems !.
Less is more IMO.

 

[TonyP]

SAIC already has an OTA update and diagnosis system for their vans which are currently being sold in the UK, so they have the software/firmware know how, but seem reluctant to implement it!

 

[kitkev]

i am not really concerned with OTA when i bought mine i did not even think to ask that question, is it a selling point perhaps to some
Butt value for money was why i bought mine and would do so again with or without OTA not a dealer breaker surely people

as for anything else i do enjoy sophie trophy and am happy with her maybe not all the bells and whistles of other EV's but a joy to drive and does look gorgeous in Dynamic Red with blacked out windows