Solar and house battery installation

[johnb80]

I've actually blocked AK OK as I found them deliberately negative, argumentative, and a bit of a troll.

P.S. Also looking at the Tepeo heat battery for the autumn.

Tepee does look good and price doesn’t seem too bad.

I think I will do the same with blocking

 

[AK OK]

I've actually blocked AK OK as I found them deliberately negative, argumentative, and a bit of a troll.

P.S. Also looking at the Tepeo heat battery for the autumn.

Oh dear

Tepee does look good and price doesn’t seem too bad.

I think I will do the same with blocking

Oh dear oh dear

 

[Gadget Geek]

Tepee does look good and price doesn’t seem too bad.

I did look at an AHP but the cost and disruption having to change all the radiators was a no no. I like the idea of just taking out the gas boiler and fitting in the heat battery.

 

[johnb80]

"my payments were going up from £170 per month to £540."

"My energy bill would have risen to £430 per month"

Dunno?

My error there, the numbers behind it were from Octopus.

When they emailed me to say my tariff was ending, they suggested Octopus fixed was the best option for me and estimated £530.65, not the £540 I had in my head for some reason. I cant remember the reason for Loyal Octopus not being considered, anyway, using the new tariff figures on my previous years consumption gave me the £430 per month that I used to show savings etc.

I apologise for my error, it was not intentional nor relevant really but there we go, I've fessed up.

Indeed it is.
I've asked questions some of which have generated more questions & apparently irritated you.

Like being cross examined on a witness stand.

If you don't want to divulge any more then that's fine .

Yep, it is

Ok

 

[DBedford]

My error there, the numbers behind it were from Octopus.

When they emailed me to say my tariff was ending, they suggested Octopus fixed was the best option for me and estimated £530.65, not the £540 I had in my head for some reason. I cant remember the reason for Loyal Octopus not being considered, anyway, using the new tariff figures on my previous years consumption gave me the £430 per month that I used to show savings etc.

View attachment 18067

I apologise for my error, it was not intentional nor relevant really but there we go, I've fessed up.


Like being cross examined on a witness stand.


Yep, it is

I do see how you feel johnb80, but as an outsider looking in I do think AK OK was just trying to understand the costing makeup and savings as they could be applied to him and others.

But with anything it does appear the more you consume the better use case of solar and batteries. But it does require a capitals investment of typically £10,000 and a life expectancy of 20 plus years . And it was the massive monthly increase that AK OK was trying to get to the route of.

Blocking anyone just means we are not open to others point of view and ‘we’ are the ones who are right.

 

[johnb80]

I do see how you feel johnb80, but as an outsider looking in I do think AK OK was just trying to understand the costing makeup and savings as they could be applied to him and others.

But with anything it does appear the more you consume the better use case of solar and batteries. But it does require a capitals investment of typically £10,000 and a life expectancy of 20 plus years . And it was the massive monthly increase that AK OK was trying to get to the route of.

Blocking anyone just means we are not open to others point of view and ‘we’ are the ones who are right.

Aye understood.

The payback is still very quick for me and whilst i'm very much doing my final furlong of life, hopefully what I have done will help climate change, be good for my grandchildren and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that the cash has been invested rather than just paying the bill. It has been a very interesting experience over the last year and has at times caused some frustration but, i'm happy to say the whole system is ticking over nicely with no human intervention.
Life expectancy, the panels I have are made by LG and guaranteed to 80% performance for 25 years. The batteries have a predicted life of 6000 cycles, to get to 80% capacity, thats 16 years so I think it's all good, my loan will be paid off in 6 years total purely with the monthly cash saved instead of paying to Octopus.

I did look at an AHP but the cost and disruption having to change all the radiators was a no no. I like the idea of just taking out the gas boiler and fitting in the heat battery.

Get youself a temperature measuring device (Amazon do them for about £15), reduce the flow temperature from your boiler to 40 deg C and see how you get on. The Mitsubishi ECODANS's will run happily at 45 to 50 deg C with very high efficiencies. You may find that you dont need bigger radiators, obviously dependent on the quality of your house / insulation and heating system. I did my trials when the outside air temp was -6 to -8 for a few days. I left the heating on 24/7 during the trial just as you would run an air-water heat pump. There was an interesting aspect during the trial, the gas boiler became much more efficient by quite a margin. Talking to the manufacturer, they said that most of the time, condensing boilers are operated outside their condensing range. Lowering the flow temperature had brought my boiler into it's condensing window hence the efficiency increase.
Definitely look at Home Assistant, it's a great central location for controlling a whole manner of things.

 

[DBedford]

Aye understood.

The payback is still very quick for me and whilst i'm very much doing my final furlong of life, hopefully what I have done will help climate change, be good for my grandchildren and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that the cash has been invested rather than just paying the bill. It has been a very interesting experience over the last year and has at times caused some frustration but, i'm happy to say the whole system is ticking over nicely with no human intervention.
Life expectancy, the panels I have are made by LG and guaranteed to 80% performance for 25 years. The batteries have a predicted life of 6000 cycles, to get to 80% capacity, thats 16 years so I think it's all good, my loan will be paid off in 6 years total purely with the monthly cash saved instead of paying to Octopus.


Get youself a temperature measuring device (Amazon do them for about £15), reduce the flow temperature from your boiler to 40 deg C and see how you get on. The Mitsubishi ECODANS's will run happily at 45 to 50 deg C with very high efficiencies. You may find that you dont need bigger radiators, obviously dependent on the quality of your house / insulation and heating system. I did my trials when the outside air temp was -6 to -8 for a few days. I left the heating on 24/7 during the trial just as you would run an air-water heat pump. There was an interesting aspect during the trial, the gas boiler became much more efficient by quite a margin. Talking to the manufacturer, they said that most of the time, condensing boilers are operated outside their condensing range. Lowering the flow temperature had brought my boiler into it's condensing window hence the efficiency increase.
Definitely look at Home Assistant, it's a great central location for controlling a whole manner of things.

Fantastic

 

[StanBowlesb]

I have a Zappi 2 charger and have just added 6.48kwp of solar panels on my garage to add to the 2kwp on my house. I judged the cost of also having battery storage was prohibitive. I was also mindful of the potentially limited 10 year charge/discharge life of batteries. Octopus Outgoing fixed currently pays me 15p per kw export and my Agile import tariff is often lower than this for much of the day (and night). I am happily exporting away as the solar is more valuable to me being exported than consumed on-site or even being stored for time-shifted consumption. It is only really the late afternoon/early evening peak when the import tariff is much more but, even then, some west-facing panels help flatten the grid use into the evening. Of course, how long these happy economics go on is uncertain. With the fixed export tariff ending in December, I doubt if the same rate will apply in 2024.

 

[tsedge]

I have done the calculation a few times and come to the conclusion that solar/battery may be fun to have, an interesting project, etc... but it won't save me money.

When calculating, it is important to include the foregone return on the capital invested in the system. I rarely see this included.

Lots of figures out there based on high energy prices - but will they stay high or go low again? Makes a big difference.

The other factor is that usually installations are not portable, so you are tying yourself to your current property to get the payback. Increased home value with solar+battery is possible but all depends whether you are already at the ceiling price for your house: it may well make it more saleable.

 

[Hotlush]

I was also mindful of the potentially limited 10 year charge/discharge life of batteries.

Batteries don't suddenly stop working at 10 years old.
They will get less efficient; e.g. your 5 kWh battery might go down to 4.5 kWh but will still have a fair few years left in them at that point.

 

[johnb80]

Batteries don't suddenly stop working at 10 years old.
They will get less efficient; e.g. your 5 kWh battery might go down to 4.5 kWh but will still have a fair few years left in them at that point.

Absolutely correct, the EVE cells I have used have a 6000 cycle life to 80% which is 16.5 years assuming they are flat and recharged full every day which of course is not the case. Battery life should be well in excess of 20 years.

I have a Zappi 2 charger and have just added 6.48kwp of solar panels on my garage to add to the 2kwp on my house. I judged the cost of also having battery storage was prohibitive.

Retail prices of batteries is excessive for sure. Company's like Fogstar offer 5kWh batteries at £1350 which seems very competitive.

I was also mindful of the potentially limited 10 year charge/discharge life of batteries.

Where did you get thos figures from? Top quality LifeP04 cells have a 6000 cycle life to 80% so that 16.5 years fully discharged and fully recharged daily which of course rarely happens.

 

[StanBowlesb]

All good points. There is no right or wrong here. The important thing is for people to gather good information and make a decision based on what they think is sensible for them personally to spend. In my case, I wanted to limit my investment to solar only and have a clear basis for a 6-9 year payback. This seemed a good investment case and I didn't have the extra funds to move to batteries as well plus the 'use case' for the 'storage time shift' that batteries would give me wasn't as strong, given that I do have the option on two weekdays plus weekends of charging the car direct from the solar.

 

[Hotlush]

Retail prices of batteries is excessive for sure. Company's like Fogstar offer 5kWh batteries at £1350 which seems very competitive.

Pretty sure my puredrive DC batteries were about £1500 trade price when I got the original quote and even with fitter mark up weren't more than £1800.
They're £2300 trade now!

Pretty certain I was told the same with my quote for Huawei batteries from a different installer; prices went up 50% around this time last year because of the demand for PV installs rocketing.

 

[johnb80]

Pretty sure my puredrive DC batteries were about £1500 trade price when I got the original quote and even with fitter mark up weren't more than £1800.
They're £2300 trade now!

Pretty certain I was told the same with my quote for Huawei batteries from a different installer; prices went up 50% around this time last year because of the demand for PV installs rocketing.

That sounds about right. The Fogstar offering is a really good battery, it has grade A Eve cells inside, you just dont get better than that.

 

[smokie]

I've been away so am late to this but do many people really spend £500+ per month every month on fuel?

And in my sums I've always assumed that electricity prices may drop quite considerably at some medium term point, which extends the payback period.

I am a fairly prolific home automater with Home Assistant but I am always on a mission to keep things simple, as my other half wouldn't know where to start if I were "unavailable" for a period, and she really isn't remotely interested in it. I suspect when I go so will most of the automations I have going on, even though they are fairly neat and, just sometimes, useful

 

[Gomev]

I've been away so am late to this but do many people really spend £500+ per month every month on fuel?

And in my sums I've always assumed that electricity prices may drop quite considerably at some medium term point, which extends the payback period.

I am a fairly prolific home automater with Home Assistant but I am always on a mission to keep things simple, as my other half wouldn't know where to start if I were "unavailable" for a period, and she really isn't remotely interested in it. I suspect when I go so will most of the automations I have going on, even though they are fairly neat and, just sometimes, useful

My thoughts too. Although there is only the 2 of us at home, we live in a 3 bed semi, and our usage is covered electric and gas (including car) on £100 / month

 

[DBedford]

My thoughts too. Although there is only the 2 of us at home, we live in a 3 bed semi, and our usage is covered electric and gas (including car) on £100 /

My thoughts too. Although there is only the 2 of us at home, we live in a 3 bed semi, and our usage is covered electric and gas (including car) on £100 / month

I do think some are increasing their projected monthly electricity bills to justify the ‘calculated’ payback on their solar/battery systems.
But each to their own I guess

 

[johnb80]

I do think some are increasing their projected monthly electricity bills to justify the ‘calculated’ payback on their solar/battery systems.
But each to their own I guess

I assume your comment is aimed at me, here is my leccy consumption for the whole of 2021

So, 11496 peak rate at 38p, £4368. 7930 off peak at 7.5p is £594 = £4962 = £413 per month.

I don't need to justify the payback on my solar and batteries, I KNOW what it's doing, you can be a cynical as you like, I'm not bothered in the slightest.

 

[smokie]

Genuine question, how are you using quite so much electricity?

Or maybe that's a fairly normal figure but it looks horrific to me!!

I was also going to comment on what a good rate you have but then noticed it's 2021


EDIT As pointed out elsewhere, and hadn't occurred to me, you probably have no gas... and are therefore heating electrically...

 

[DBedford]

I assume your comment is aimed at me, here is my leccy consumption for the whole of 2021

View attachment 18177

So, 11496 peak rate at 38p, £4368. 7930 off peak at 7.5p is £594 = £4962 = £413 per month.

I don't need to justify the payback on my solar and batteries, I KNOW what it's doing, you can be a cynical as you like, I'm not bothered in the slightest.

My comment was not aimed at anyone person. Sorry if you feel that.