The Contradictions of Battery Operated Vehicles

[AK OK]

A simple Volvo debunk which is not exactly a clean car in the first place due to its OTT complexity!

Study Against EVs Backed By Legacy Automakers Is Debunked In Epic Way

A study that claimed EVs need 78,000 km (49,000 mi) to break even with ICE cars in carbon emissions was debunked in an epic way. And there was more…

insideevs.com

Thats an interesting read thanks.

Much mention of 16k miles to CO2 break even in that one.

 

[EVsince2016]

This one shows the various mixes which is how they can find a bad mix to make an EV look bad

EV vs. gasoline: Lifetime CO2 footprint keeps getting better with renewable energy mix

Volvo is among a few automakers publishing CO2-footprint analyses for its vehicles, but it underscores some advantages that all EVs pose as the energy mix becomes cleaner and more renewable.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[EVsince2016]

We also need to remember that now both VW & Tesla manufacture in zero carbon factories!

 

[awbugritt]

Indeed, but our problem with the pollution issue is global. It's no good this country being net zero, which would only account for 1% of the World's total, if other countries don't/can't follow suit. Realistically it's pie in the sky I fear.

 

[EVsince2016]

Indeed, but our problem with the pollution issue is global. It's no good this country being net zero, which would only account for 1% of the World's total, if other countries don't/can't follow suit. Realistically it's pie in the sky I fear.

Whatever you do you cannot make burning oil or gas clean but you can make zero carbon electricity.

 

[Harry]

Thoughts?

Yes - here are mine - his data on the CO2 impact in manufacturing electric cars (batteries) vs conventional was presented with no supporting evidence, and needs to be compared to the CO2 impact of mining oil, transporting oil to refining, refining and then transporting the refined product to retail. Now the comparison looks very different. Just pumping crude oil in the USA requires electricity sufficient to power 15 million electric cars. The power required to run offshore oil recovery will power another 19 million. (This ignores the pollution caused in oil mining - pretty horrendous, and not even remotely comparable with the mining operations to derive the minerals for battery production. You will often hear about cobalt in batteries, but you will not often hear about its requirement in refining oil.)

 

[Les burrows]

Whatever you do you cannot make burning oil or gas clean but you can make zero carbon electricity.

Bang on, and the more of that we can do the better the world will become,it won’t happen overnight but it could happen a lot quicker if the governments of this world get there acts together.
Les.

 

[Harry]

Indeed, but our problem with the pollution issue is global. It's no good this country being net zero, which would only account for 1% of the World's total, if other countries don't/can't follow suit. Realistically it's pie in the sky I fear.

They won't do it we don't. Plus the Kyoto (I think) agreement said the advanced countries which have so far done the most damage but have the tech. should be first and show the way. And - every % counts.

 

[EVsince2016]

We are all acting like spoilt children who want more than anyone else when we should be leading by example.

He burns more than me so waah!

 

[Tweed98]

CO2 isn't the only pollutant cars emit. The government is soon to focus on PM2.5 particles that cause breathing difficulties, enter the blood stream and cause issues from there. This is the crud that comes off of brake discs and tyres so all cars cause it but EVs produce more due to the weight. There are already mandarins telling the gov. to tax vehicles by weight to make up for the lack of VED and BIK income that EVs are now causing the government coffers (never mind that they are raking it in from VAT on fuel duty from the vast majority of vehicles.)

 

[Robf]

CO2 isn't the only pollutant cars emit. The government is soon to focus on PM2.5 particles that cause breathing difficulties, enter the blood stream and cause issues from there. This is the crud that comes off of brake discs and tyres so all cars cause it but EVs produce more due to the weight. There are already mandarins telling the gov. to tax vehicles by weight to make up for the lack of VED and BIK income that EVs are now causing the government coffers (never mind that they are raking it in from VAT on fuel duty from the vast majority of vehicles.)

Another misconception being pushed about as fact. In actual fact despite weight EVs produce much less particles from their brake discs due to using re-gen rather than brakes, just getting the facts in there.

 

[EVsince2016]

CO2 isn't the only pollutant cars emit. The government is soon to focus on PM2.5 particles that cause breathing difficulties, enter the blood stream and cause issues from there. This is the crud that comes off of brake discs and tyres so all cars cause it but EVs produce more due to the weight. There are already mandarins telling the gov. to tax vehicles by weight to make up for the lack of VED and BIK income that EVs are now causing the government coffers (never mind that they are raking it in from VAT on fuel duty from the vast majority of vehicles.)

EVs use regen braking so pads last 100,000+ miles & discs the life of the car if not left to rust.

Tyre particles are generally too large to be a major hazard to heath as air pollution they more are the 2nd largest source of small plastic pollution in rivers & the oceans

 

[dickturpin]

Its not just about how much pollution ICE cars produce, its where they produce it e.g. heavy traffic outside schools and inner cities poison the local atmosphere.

True

 

[m4rmite]

You cannot recycle burnt oil!

Burnt as in blackened crud?
Yes you can.

Burnt as in incinerated?
No you can't.

 

[Hairyfool]

I can't help but feel that cars have been unfairly demonized regarding the emissions issue. I wonder how much crap a Jumbo (the flying variety ) shoves into the atmosphere?

This may answer the question

Of course there are a lot of variables, not least my car is being charged by solar panels as I type. Also note the change for a car with two passengers although I see a lot around town with only the driver in it.

 

[awbugritt]

Is that per occupant/passenger, per mile, per minute, per what?

 

[Hairyfool]

As is normal for this statistic it is per passenger kilometre. More important is the comparison between transport methods which shows short haul flight worse than petrol (which might be a viable alternative) and long haul ( where it is not)

 

[AK OK]

As is normal for this statistic it is per passenger kilometre. More important is the comparison between transport methods which shows short haul flight worse than petrol (which might be a viable alternative) and long haul ( where it is not)

Not least because of lots of oceans around & about

 

[Geo68]

I can't help but feel that cars have been unfairly demonized regarding the emissions issue. I wonder how much crap a Jumbo (the flying variety ) shoves into the atmosphere?

Or try sitting in a closed lockup with the engine running and the windows down in an ice car, see how long he lasts.

 

[AK OK]

Or try sitting in a closed lockup with the engine running and the windows down in an ice car, see how long he lasts.

No hosepipe?

I thought those dubious old days were over post catalysts?

Perhaps you have experience?