Webasto heater ? JUST INSTALLED :-)

[JABO]

being using heating did last 2 days and it isn’t good enough - direct clear the windscreen well. anyone installed block heater yet? Getting tempted

The webasto installer refuses to install in my car, as there's no installation manual from webasto or MG yet. for now i bought an electric 2kw flow heater on aliexpress to install in the coolant hoses in the engine compartment. Haven't installed it yet......

Did he say why he wouldn't install?
Seems a lot of trouble.
I take it it heats the coolant in the ICE, If so how is the coolant pumped around to get to the heater matrix?
If you fit it into the existing coolant system of the ICE does that invalidate the warranty?
Or have I got this totally wrong?
I fitted a heating system to heat cooking oil when I had a disco, the coolant was diverted around the cooking oil, to preheat it, so as to thin the cooking oil, It also had an electric preheat chamber to use first thing.

he will not install it as there´s no installation manual from webasto, and he´s afraid the car will not accept a cold morning and a preheated ICE i´m not able to convince him it´s no diff than any other car. the heater from ali is a small brick with built in pump, only needs to cut one hose going to the cabin, and connect both ends. i´m thinking that will convince the webasto installer.
MG is ok with webasto, warranty will not be impaired.

you can see it here:

AliExpress - Online Shopping for Popular Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and More products - AliExpress , insert 32835461281 in the search field

 

[busa]

I still don't see how that heats the cabin? I understand how it heats the coolant.
I had something fitted to a car in Canada for the winter months to make cold starting easier.

 

[hermitdave]

I still don't see how that heats the cabin? I understand how it heats the coolant.
I had something fitted to a car in Canada for the winter months to make cold starting easier.

HS relies on warm coolant to warm the cabin- it does not have an electric heater

 

[busa]

Yeah I know that. you are talking about a heater that pre warms the coolant.
I’m still struggling to see the benefit of the block heater, I understand the benefits of it in an ice vehicle in cold climates, gets the coolant warm, easier starting, the engine gets up to temperature quicker, using less fuel, the heater matrix can warm the cabin quicker.

But from what I’m reading this is wanting to be fitted because you don’t want to use the ICE for heating the cabin?

But.. there’s the cost of buying the heater, getting it installed, you have to partly drain the cooling system, so there’s the cost of OAT coolant, you should never reuse old coolant, it’s a closed system and you don’t want dirt getting in the cooling system, worst of all air and causing an air lock.

Then the electric to heat the block heater and coolant.

If you are not using the ICE, the warmed coolant will quickly cool when you put the heater on as the incoming air over the heater matrix will cool this as it blows warm air in the cabin and without the ICE the coolant will not heat up.

Plus, the Block heater will not warm all of the coolant, as there will be a thermostat, this will be electrically controlled and it operates around the 90-to-95-degree point give or take.

Yes, the thermostat will be partly open and some coolant will circulate.
The link that was posted was for an externally powered heater,

Something to think about?

 

[hermitdave]

Yeah I know that. you are talking about a heater that pre warms the coolant.
I’m still struggling to see the benefit of the block heater, I understand the benefits of it in an ice vehicle in cold climates, gets the coolant warm, easier starting, the engine gets up to temperature quicker, using less fuel, the heater matrix can warm the cabin quicker.

But from what I’m reading this is wanting to be fitted because you don’t want to use the ICE for heating the cabin?

But.. there’s the cost of buying the heater, getting it installed, you have to partly drain the cooling system, so there’s the cost of OAT coolant, you should never reuse old coolant, it’s a closed system and you don’t want dirt getting in the cooling system, worst of all air and causing an air lock.

Then the electric to heat the block heater and coolant.

If you are not using the ICE, the warmed coolant will quickly cool when you put the heater on as the incoming air over the heater matrix will cool this as it blows warm air in the cabin and without the ICE the coolant will not heat up.

Plus, the Block heater will not warm all of the coolant, as there will be a thermostat, this will be electrically controlled and it operates around the 90-to-95-degree point give or take.

Yes, the thermostat will be partly open and some coolant will circulate.
The link that was posted was for an externally powered heater,

Something to think about?

that entirely depends on the length of the journey. If you are trying to do your journey in EV mode and not wanting to start the petrol engine, the distance you are travelling is likely to be very limited.

Additionally when you start your journey you are likely to be within urban area where you dont want to start engine for demisting etc.

If cost alone was a factor, we would all be driving Petrol / Diesel cars IMO

 

[JABO]

that entirely depends on the length of the journey. If you are trying to do your journey in EV mode and not wanting to start the petrol engine, the distance you are travelling is likely to be very limited.

Additionally when you start your journey you are likely to be within urban area where you dont want to start engine for demisting etc.

If cost alone was a factor, we would all be driving Petrol / Diesel cars IMO

Exactly my point/need, my commute is 15km and thats abort the distance i can go on a heated ICE, so i'm okay with preheating the ICE just to harvest the heat until i'm at least out of my Urban area. The EHS has electric water pump so it circulates coolant to the cabin as long as there's heat left in it. I know it sound crazy to some but it fits my needs. After having the EV option for 3 months, i'm willing to go a long way not to crank the engine. I've been bitten by the bug

 

[busa]

that entirely depends on the length of the journey. If you are trying to do your journey in EV mode and not wanting to start the petrol engine, the distance you are travelling is likely to be very limited.

Additionally when you start your journey you are likely to be within urban area where you dont want to start engine for demisting etc.

If cost alone was a factor, we would all be driving Petrol / Diesel cars IMO

Well if it fits your needs then fit the heater,
I'll be really interested in the results as this could help a few PHEV owners on the forum.

 

[Deleted member 3150]

Winter morning regime for an HS PHEV.

1. Unplug the cable from overnight charge
2. Start the petrol engine
3. Press rear window heater and demist keys
4. Turn on seat heater
5. Go in and finish my cup of coffee
6. Check out window that ice has melted on windows
7. Finish my coffee
8. Enter toasty car
9. Set heat heater as required
10. Press EV button
11. Turn up planet rock and drive off

Simples!

 

[ajw1100]

I think my regime will be similar (ish)
1. Place 1kw heater in boot connected to timer in garage the night before or on returm.
2. Set timer to warm the cabin in time for departure.
3. Have cuppa and no need to venture out in cold.
4. Check car nicely de iced/Snow and windows cleared.
5. Unplug and remove heater.
6. Get in, turn on seats.
7. Select EV and drive off.

 

[midician]

I think we are getting too demanding on what a car can do - I remember when I lived in Minnesota - on a -40c morning we would be driving in freezing vehicles for at least 20 minutes before anything warmed up !

That’s one of the reasons I moved to Australia !
Non such issues in South Australia !

 

[MowerMan65]

Winter morning regime for an HS PHEV.

1. Unplug the cable from overnight charge
2. Start the petrol engine
3. Press rear window heater and demist keys
4. Turn on seat heater
5. Go in and finish my cup of coffee
6. Check out window that ice has melted on windows
7. Finish my coffee
8. Enter toasty car
9. Set heat heater as required
10. Press EV button
11. Turn up planet rock and drive off

Simples!

Yep...but burning fuel to heat your car up to 'toasty' is kind of defeating the point. If you had an engine pre-heater, you wouldn't need to start the engine at all. If it cools down before you complete your journey (very likely if it's freezing out) it will start and heat up again whatever you do in the driveway. But heat-soaking 150kg of metal takes a lot of kw. Better to pull that out of a 13a socket than out of the petrol tank? And of course the demister will work immediately so you might need one of those travelling coffee cups as you'll be taking it with you

 

[Deleted member 3150]

Hmmmmmmr a car idling uses half a gallon per hour so leaving to heat up a few minutes is going to cost say 12p
anyone want to work out cost of a buying a timer + 1kw heater and electricity daytime use for same amount of time? (also don’t forget there will be no residual heat building up in engine either.)

 

[ajw1100]

Hmmmmmmr a car idling uses half a gallon per hour so leaving to heat up a few minutes is going to cost say 12p
anyone want to work out cost of a buying a timer + 1kw heater and electricity daytime use for same amount of time? (also don’t forget there will be no residual heat building up in engine either.)

Agreed, to buy both today would certainly outcost the fuel cost. However mine are both years old and just sitting doing nothing in the garage for months on end.
To leave your car running for half an hour on your driveway would invalidate your insurance unless you sit in it the whole time, and if I remember correctly leaving a vehicle un-attended with the engine running was an offense. Maybe that no longer applies?

 

[EVGeezer]

Winter morning regime for an HS PHEV.

1. Unplug the cable from overnight charge
2. Start the petrol engine
3. Press rear window heater and demist keys
4. Turn on seat heater
5. Go in and finish my cup of coffee
6. Check out window that ice has melted on windows
7. Finish my coffee
8. Enter toasty car
9. Set heat heater as required
10. Press EV button
11. Turn up planet rock and drive off

Simples!

NOT recommended at all - this will give you an operational life of the ICE reduced to a tiny fraction of what you normally would expect. Moreover - modern engines have about 30% of fuel deposited in the coolant, which is wasting a lot of fuel, polluting a lot for little return.

In (very) cold climates and for short trips, the Webasto is the best solution if the installation can be managed.

No matter what - cold climates are very hard for all battery powered vehicles, a problem that has yet to be solved to make them really viable.

 

[Deleted member 3150]

I guess if you own a truck or £100k motor home forking out in a Webasto or Eberspächer petrol burner makes sense. I’ll stick to 3 minutes of idling on my driveway costing 0.016 gallons per minute. It’s made my cars toasty for 40 + years with no carbon footprint associated with building and fitting an additional space heater. It’s a short term issue now I guess as 2030 is fast approaching. The HS is highly recommend for this transition period and I am averaging 86mpg with most short trips entirely on battery and being able to run EV mode in standing traffic and when running through towns.

 

[busa]

What I don't understand is why not drive the car as normal? defrost/scrape the windscreen, the drive the car.. yes it will be running on the ICE and not able to use the EV mode, but if it really is such a huge problem, then maybe a full EV would be a better option.

 

[Deleted member 3150]

What I don't understand is why not drive the car as normal? defrost/scrape the windscreen, the drive the car.. yes it will be running on the ICE and not able to use the EV mode, but if it really is such a huge problem, then maybe a full EV would be a better option.

Hi, I’m on my third new MG, first I had
ZS ICE. Wife loved the seat as perfect for her back condition. A bit scrappy over bumps and poor mpg but really good value. Biggest issue was the aircon came 30% below pressure but even after dealer sorted, the window demising in winter was very poor.
Upgraded to ZS EV, great fun to drive, better handling but still scrappy over bumps and dreadful misting. Turns out that although we were prepared for the winter battery degradation in performance the lack of fast chargers and regularly finding them occupied or not working, was too much of a pain. We wanted reliable long distance transport for recreation too.
So back to a PHEV, the HS gives us flexibility and better road comfort. It does however still have the minor budget car MG gremlins and misting up. It’s great value for money and I’m more than happy to let the petrol engine sort out the misting, melt the ice and heat the car while I have a coffe- happy days!

 

[Dragonfly]

Hi, I’m on my third new MG, first I had
ZS ICE. Wife loved the seat as perfect for her back condition. A bit scrappy over bumps and poor mpg but really good value. Biggest issue was the aircon came 30% below pressure but even after dealer sorted, the window demising in winter was very poor.
Upgraded to ZS EV, great fun to drive, better handling but still scrappy over bumps and dreadful misting. Turns out that although we were prepared for the winter battery degradation in performance the lack of fast chargers and regularly finding them occupied or not working, was too much of a pain. We wanted reliable long distance transport for recreation too.
So back to a PHEV, the HS gives us flexibility and better road comfort. It does however still have the minor budget car MG gremlins and misting up. It’s great value for money and I’m more than happy to let the petrol engine sort out the misting, melt the ice and heat the car while I have a coffe- happy days!

I'm curious about how pre-heating the car works (whether petrol or electric aftermarket), I don't tend to bother with the preheat. I do a regular 10mile ish journey, and until recently, I'd let the petrol run the first couple of miles, and that would be enough to keep the cabin warm, and de-mist etc. However now temperatures are dropping, I have to either run half the time on petrol, or accept a colder cabin. The heaters are set at 18-19 unless the missus has been messing. I don't consider 5 deg outside particularly cold either.

Surely even if the engine is preheated (probably more than my 2 miles), it will still be cooled enough in 10miles that I need to run the engine. And obviously on the return journey I'd be still running 50% petrol.

 

[hermitdave]

What I don't understand is why not drive the car as normal? defrost/scrape the windscreen, the drive the car.. yes it will be running on the ICE and not able to use the EV mode, but if it really is such a huge problem, then maybe a full EV would be a better option.

Think its a question of how refined the drive one wants. I am using the engine first thing like I did today morning - Hybrid gearbox isn't particularly smooth especially when cold weather forces engine to start first thing.

I really wish I could have a full long range EV but we do on occasions drive to Poland and maybe I will have to swap to something else as boot is really too small

 

[Dragonfly]

Think its a question of how refined the drive one wants. I am using the engine first thing like I did today morning - Hybrid gearbox isn't particularly smooth especially when cold weather forces engine to start first thing.

I really wish I could have a full long range EV but we do on occasions drive to Poland and maybe I will have to swap to something else as boot is really too small

Bulgaria here, but otherwise exactly the same logic, we are probably more likely to use the Leaf more for local runs over winter, not least because I can pre-heat the car.