ZS EV 2022 Granny Charger

[JodyS21]

Good to hear from you @JodyS21
It's been a while .

Yeah I have been neglecting the forum! Been a bit busy & to be honest things are shifting for obvious reasons towards the new model - which I unfortunately aren’t getting
I’ve been seeing the Facebook group posts more recently, I need to stop looking at them though as it winds me up how stupid most of the posts/comments on there are!!!

 

[Lovemyev]

Yeah I have been neglecting the forum! Been a bit busy & to be honest things are shifting for obvious reasons towards the new model - which I unfortunately aren’t getting
I’ve been seeing the Facebook group posts more recently, I need to stop looking at them though as it winds me up how stupid most of the posts/comments on there are!!!

I have missed your comments on the forum.
The work you did on the BMS updates etc was excellent.
I don't do face book, I don't like this type of interaction.
I am very lucky to have received my Trophy LR and I love it.

 

[JodyS21]

I have missed your comments on the forum.
The work you did on the BMS updates etc was excellent.
I don't do face book, I don't like this type of interaction.
I am very lucky to have received my Trophy LR and I love it.

There isn’t a “like” button for “jealous” otherwise I’d click it!

The trouble with FB vs a proper forum like this, is people that take the effort to use a forum generally have the sense to Google things first etc

 

[Ian James]

A few simple question i have not been able to find answers to elsewhere.

What is the charge capacity of the granny charger, and is it possible to adjust it ?

I have heard horror stories of outdoor power sockets only being able to sustain 6 Ampere's when doing a continuous draw, and seen pictures of the charred electrical sockets.

I have not yet got any wall charger installed, so for a start i am going to use the granny charger if possible, until iget the wall charger installed, so it is important to know the charge current / wattage and if i can adjust it somehow

I've my ZS EV for a year (this month). When I got it I installed a dedicated outside 13A Twin socket on it's own 20A radial feed from the distribution board, via a two pole 30mA RCD. Using the granny charger this is all I've used to charge my EV. It pulls about 10 to 12 Amps continuously which drops to zero when the battery is fully charged. Because it is a continuous load for a sustained period (10 to 14 hours or so) it is important that all the electrical components and terminations are clean and well maintained and the volt drop on the feed cable is below 4% . Old, dirty and corroded sockets and cabling with poor terminations are a recipe for a melt-down!

 

[hmadsen]

I've my ZS EV for a year (this month). When I got it I installed a dedicated outside 13A Twin socket on it's own 20A radial feed from the distribution board, via a two pole 30mA RCD. Using the granny charger this is all I've used to charge my EV. It pulls about 10 to 12 Amps continuously which drops to zero when the battery is fully charged. Because it is a continuous load for a sustained period (10 to 14 hours or so) it is important that all the electrical components and terminations are clean and well maintained and the volt drop on the feed cable is below 4% . Old, dirty and corroded sockets and cabling with poor terminations are a recipe for a melt-down!

Yeah i saw examples of melted sockets.

I am in the process of building a small "house" for my wall charger, it will be mounted, essentially right on the other side of the wall, from where my electrical panel is in my house, so the charger will get its supply from a cable less than 50cm long and directly connected without a socket at all.

I have an outside socket, i checked the specs and this is a "10A (8A sustained) so i will just connect up the outside charger to this socket until i get the electrician in, to wire the above mentioned cable, and my wall charger can be set to only charge at 8A, so i should be relatively safe, in the short period until the proper cable is affixed.

I find it a bit annoying that the granny charger can not be limited below 10A, especially when most normal power sockets are actually limited to 6A continuous current draw. (Or the car having a menu, where you can limit it)

From what i understand, the was you limit the charge is by varying a resistor in the Type 2 connector.

So effectively when i set my wall charger to, lets say 6A, it is just adjusting the resistor value, to tell the car that it is not able to deliver more than 6A, and then the car will not try to draw more.

So basically it is the charge circuit in the car that limits itself to only draw 6A....So why not make it possible to tell the car to only draw 6A, regardless of the charger, maybe saying "I can supply 16A"

Or...A small rotary dial on the granny charger, that just changes the resistor value.

 

[Gandalfharrow]

Hence the reason i Asked if it was adjustable

I can also talk to an Electrician friend, i think it was made legal to install a 13A fuse if it now has a 10A fuse.

Wire is 1,5mm2

1,5 is not really heavy enough I would suggest

 

[hmadsen]

1,5 is not really heavy enough I would suggest

Well here 1.5 is officially allowed to support up to 13A fuses.

This is solid 1.5 copper wire (1 "strand") installation wire.

I can only go by, what the rules say.

 

[JodyS21]

Well here 1.5 is officially allowed to support up to 13A fuses.

This is solid 1.5 copper wire (1 "strand") installation wire.

I can only go by, what the rules say.

There’s a table in the UK regs that shows cable ratings for different installations (clipped/in insulation etc).
In the UK we use solid strand copper cable too, usually referred to as twin & earth cable.
Obviously different countries have different regulations.

 

[Archev]

There’s a table in the UK regs that shows cable ratings for different installations (clipped/in insulation etc).
In the UK we use solid strand copper cable too, usually referred to as twin & earth cable.
Obviously different countries have different regulations.

Yes but I was called out to repair / service a bunch of nine kilowatt showers in a block of student’s flats years ago. They were wired with 2.5 mm cable
I think it must have helped with heating the flats

 

[hmadsen]

Yes but I was called out to repair / service a bunch of nine kilowatt showers in a block of student’s flats years ago. They were wired with 2.5 mm cable
I think it must have helped with heating the flats

Wow, that's 40A

Regulations here seem to suggest 6mm solid copper wires for 32A.

From memory, 2.5mm is only good for 16A so drawing 40A through 2.5mm would probably make them nice and toasty.

Unless offcourse it was 3 phase power supplying them

 

[JodyS21]

Wow, that's 40A

Regulations here seem to suggest 6mm solid copper wires for 32A.

From memory, 2.5mm is only good for 16A so drawing 40A through 2.5mm would probably make them nice and toasty.

Unless offcourse it was 3 phase power supplying them

Here you go:

www.cable-ratings.co.uk

cable ratings

www.cable-ratings.co.uk

In the UK the standard domestic (single phase) installs are:
2.5mm radial circuit 20Amp MCB
2.5mm ring circuit 32Amp MCB
I believe the use of the ring circuit is very much a UK thing and pretty much never used on the continent.
4.0mm radial circuit 32Amp MCB

A lot of EV installers like to use 6mm rather than 4mm, general consensus from what I've read is that they do this to over spec it and not have to bother doing the calculations etc.

 

[Archev]

Wow, that's 40A

Regulations here seem to suggest 6mm solid copper wires for 32A.

From memory, 2.5mm is only good for 16A so drawing 40A through 2.5mm would probably make them nice and toasty.

Unless offcourse it was 3 phase power supplying them

No, I only ever encountered three phase supplies in a handful of houses. Not very common in Scotland I don’t think.

 

[hmadsen]

Yeah, i am in the process of getting my wall charger installed.

I have a friend that is a certified electrician, i have struck a deal with him, where i do all of the installation, and he just comes around to verify i did everything right, and then he does the honor of doing the actual connection to the electrical panel itself.

I just installed the charger on the wall, and put the cable through the wall to the electric panel.

I used some leftover 6 * 2.5 from when i installed the solar panels and the inverter (I also did the full install of that, and let the electrician do the inspection and hookup).

I am the one fixing his internet, wifi and computers when they don't work, so we pay eachother that way (Much to the dismay of the government i would imagine, as this arrangement is hard to tax )

 

[hmadsen]

No, I only ever encountered three phase supplies in a handful of houses. Not very common in Scotland I don’t think.

Okay, here all houses has 3 phase, so if it was 9KW distributed over 3 phases, the 2.5mm would actually have been okay

 

[Alb]

A lot of EV installers like to use 6mm rather than 4mm, general consensus from what I've read is that they do this to over spec it and not have to bother doing the calculations etc.

4mm sq flat T&E is fine for 32A provided the cable is direct clipped and not so long as to cause a volt drop problem.

 

[Lovemyev]

Over sizing a cable is not a problem, only undersizing is where the problems start !.
E.G. - Only on personal level, I would NEVER EVER wire a 7 Kw 32 Amp wall box on 2.5mm T&E regardless of the size of the cable run.
4mm / 6mm appears to be the accepted practice in many applications in the UK ( cable run length to be considered here ).
But if for some strange reason you wired in 10mm T&E ( WAY WAY over the top of course ) this has no ill affects on over loading due to heat.
Bugger to terminate though .
Just making the point that correctly sized or over sized cables should not suffer from the dangers of producing excess heat and the danger of fire.

 

[hmadsen]

Over sizing a cable is not a problem, only undersizing is where the problems start !.
E.G. - Only on personal level, I would NEVER EVER wire a 7 Kw 32 Amp wall box on 2.5mm T&E regardless of the size of the cable run.
4mm / 6mm appears to be the accepted practice in many applications in the UK ( cable run length to be considered here ).
But if for some strange reason you wired in 10mm T&E ( WAY WAY over the top of course ) this has no ill affects on over loading due to heat.
Bugger to terminate though .
Just making the point that correctly sized or over sized cables should not suffer from the dangers of producing excess heat and the danger of fire.

Just to iterate, i only have a 3.6 kwh charger, i bought this as it has adjustable charge wattage, and i want to charge slow because then i can use the surplus solar power my solar cells make.

95% of the time, a charger that will give me 3.6 is more than enough to charge the car, as it sits in the driveway most of the time anyway, and the few times i need to charge faster i will just go to a fast charger.

 

[hmadsen]

Well it seems all of my questions about the granny charger was for nothing.

When i got home with the car, i took the hubcaps that were conveniently placed under the floor, and i discovered that there was not granny charger in the cutout.

Contacted them to tell them they forgot to add the granny charger and the seller just came back to me to inform me that in Denmark the granny charger is not supplied, as they dont believe anyone uses it anyway.

He apologized but said that he had not actually ever said it would be there, and that it was available as a paid extra (£280).

I said to him that i had never heard him say it was included, i just assumed that it was, because it was in other countries, and also, it was not available in the "extras" section, when i ordered the car (Only V2L, Type 2 cable, trailer hitch and a few other things were available.)

Mildly annoyed as they have essentially not given men ANY means of charging outside of fast chargers. I was okay with getting only Type-2 cable or Granny Charger, but i feel, they kind of cheated, by not giving me either and wanting to sell me both parts, at inflated prices.

 

[JodyS21]

Well it seems all of my questions about the granny charger was for nothing.

When i got home with the car, i took the hubcaps that were conveniently placed under the floor, and i discovered that there was not granny charger in the cutout.

Contacted them to tell them they forgot to add the granny charger and the seller just came back to me to inform me that in Denmark the granny charger is not supplied, as they dont believe anyone uses it anyway.

He apologized but said that he had not actually ever said it would be there, and that it was available as a paid extra (£280).

I said to him that i had never heard him say it was included, i just assumed that it was, because it was in other countries, and also, it was not available in the "extras" section, when i ordered the car (Only V2L, Type 2 cable, trailer hitch and a few other things were available.)

Mildly as they have essentially not given men ANY means of charging outside of fast chargers. I was okay with getting only Type-2 cable or Granny Charger, but i feel, they kind of cheated, by not giving me either and wanting to sell me both parts, at inflated prices.

Yes I’d read/seen they don’t include them in some countries. Maybe because of the 3 phase thing.

 

[hmadsen]

Yes I’d read/seen they don’t include them in some countries. Maybe because of the 3 phase thing.

But if the granny charger is 10A (2300 Watt) i would imagine it would be able to charge at "full speed" even if the car has a 3 phase charger. (11/3 = 3600 watt = 16A)

I think i will just not get one, or atleast get one that is cheaper than what he offers me.

At home i have a wall charger, and i have bought the Type-2 cable for public chargers that have no cable.

I do feel it would have been more honest, to tell me, or atleast have it as a paid option, when i bought the car.

In that case, i would certainly have noticed and asked about it, and there would have been a chance i could have gotten one for free or at a very reasonable price.