ZS EV and those hand car washes with pressure washers

[Topeka]

I know this has been covered before but I can't find the thread. Maybe I'm putting in the wrong search terms.

Anyway...

We have a cheap hand car wash a minute
away from us who used to do a brilliant job on our old non-EV. One of those car washes where you drive in, they cover it in snow foam and then use a pressure washer to wash the wheels and the rest of the car, then you get out and they do more of a detailed clean inside and out.

I remember somewhere there was concern over the front EV charging flap and using pressure washers directly on them.

I imagine when these guys clean the cars it is only 1-2 seconds max directed pressure at any one area.

• Is it fine to use these types of car washes?
• For those that do, do you ask the guy washing it to not spray the charging flap directly?
• Are there any other areas of the car to be careful with when using pressure washers?

Thanks

 

[Nicko]

I use them often with no problems

 

[AAA mileage club]

I regularly drive our car for automated car washes, and I do it the same way as with petrol and diesel cars in the past – except that I opt out of underbody washing, it can be done permanently in the app of the chain I use.

There are pros and cons to car wash machines as with everything else. For me with a leased car, using the car wash is fine, although it can cause small scratches and doesn't wash as thoroughly as a manual wash. I wash the car primarily for cosmetic reasons, a white car often looks dirty. We don't have employees to handle the interior, salaries in Denmark are too high, so it's up to me

So to sum up, no need to worry about the lid of the charging ports, but the advice from my MG dealer is: Do not wash with high pressure under the car or under the hood.

 

[Bodgerx]

The reason you shouldn’t use hand car washes should be because virtually none of them can exist without minimum wage violations.

More than 90% of hand carwashes in UK employing workers illegally, study finds

Only 7% had undertaken right-to-work checks and just 11% handed out payslips, Nottingham Trent University research reveals

www.theguardian.com

Stay away

 

[Nicko]

Nope

 

[mj224]

Think: Heavy rain at motorway speeds.....

The car is waterproof..

 

[Tread Softly Terran]

I use a family owned and operated jet/hand wash locally. I tell them everytime to avoid the ZS front charge flap & not put hand pressure on it. They all now have got the message.

 

[johnb80]

The reason you shouldn’t use hand car washes should be because virtually none of them can exist without minimum wage violations.

More than 90% of hand carwashes in UK employing workers illegally, study finds

Only 7% had undertaken right-to-work checks and just 11% handed out payslips, Nottingham Trent University research reveals

www.theguardian.com

Stay away

Does it really matter? Minimum wage is bureaucracy gone mad in my humble opinion. Nobody is holding a gun to their head to wash cars, if theyre happy / willing to work for their rate of pay whats the issue? I want my car washed, they work for 20 minutes and take the £7.50 etc.
I also have a boot in the other camp, that of an employer. Minimum wage deters us from taking on more staff. It's chicken and egg situation for us, we need more staff but cant afford them until theyre onboard and bringing money into the system, then we can (and do) pay more. We have people wanting to work for us and would give their right arm to be onboard but we simply cant.
I say good on em, the staff at the car wash, getting stuck in, earning a crust, why would you not want to support them?

 

[fred12345]

Instruction manual:

Cleaning with a High Pressure Cleaner
Note: Always read the manufacturers operating instructions. When using high pressure washers, always ensure there is adequate distance between the spray nozzle and any soft materials, decals or rubber seals.
Note: DO NOT direct the pressure washer nozzle directly toward the high voltage charging point or high voltage battery connections on the underside of the vehicle.

 

[Bodgerx]

Does it really matter? Minimum wage is bureaucracy gone mad in my humble opinion. Nobody is holding a gun to their head to wash cars, if theyre happy / willing to work for their rate of pay whats the issue? I want my car washed, they work for 20 minutes and take the £7.50 etc.
I also have a boot in the other camp, that of an employer. Minimum wage deters us from taking on more staff. It's chicken and egg situation for us, we need more staff but cant afford them until theyre onboard and bringing money into the system, then we can (and do) pay more. We have people wanting to work for us and would give their right arm to be onboard but we simply cant.
I say good on em, the staff at the car wash, getting stuck in, earning a crust, why would you not want to support them?

It matters because people deserved to be paid and modern slavery is a thing.

It matters because it is illegal.

I personally know of someone who is originally from Kurdistan that literally had to pay for his job at one of these places. They termed it an 'investment' in the business and yet they have no right to how the business is run or to any profit. He is paid less than minimum wage and is effectively trapped in it due to a loyalty pledge.

These are not well run places.

 

[johnb80]

It matters because people deserved to be paid and modern slavery is a thing.

It matters because it is illegal.

I personally know of someone who is originally from Kurdistan that literally had to pay for his job at one of these places. They termed it an 'investment' in the business and yet they have no right to how the business is run or to any profit. He is paid less than minimum wage and is effectively trapped in it due to a loyalty pledge.

These are not well run places.

So they march him to work everyday holding him at gunpoint do they? I seriously doubt it. There are 3 car washes in my locality that match this sort of description, all of them seem to employ 'foreign' workers, all of them do a good job and in every case they seem happy.
I'm happy to use them and pay for the excellent job they do when I dont have time to do the job myself. What do you think will happen if people follow your advice and not use these car washes? Do you think the workers will be better looked after?

 

[Bodgerx]

So they march him to work everyday holding him at gunpoint do they? I seriously doubt it. There are 3 car washes in my locality that match this sort of description, all of them seem to employ 'foreign' workers, all of them do a good job and in every case they seem happy.
I'm happy to use them and pay for the excellent job they do when I dont have time to do the job myself. What do you think will happen if people follow your advice and not use these car washes? Do you think the workers will be better looked after?

I don't want to be impolite here, but you are misinformed.

I have first hand knowledge and personally know people that work in these places.

Please look at this:

https://www.antislaverycommissioner.co.uk/media/1238/labour-exploitation-in-hand-car-washes.pdf

Quote from the article:

"Research indicates that there are workers who have been positively identified as victims of modern slavery and human trafficking and workers subject to lower level forms of labour abuse. There is also a variance in terms of identification as a victim: some workers self-identify as victims of modern slavery or trafficking and some who would fit the necessary indicators do not, as they may view their situation as a better opportunity to alternative options for employment. The same finding applies to lower level forms of abuse."

I appreciate your entrepreneur attitude here, and there is a place for lower paid jobs for those that are getting started out, but this is an entirely different situation that needs intervention.

The other aspect of this, is that they present an issue for local authorities in terms of land use. Typically they are run from old petrol stations, and in some cases workers have to live on site in poor conditions in unauthorised living accommodation. And the reason why they do that? Low wages.

Because of the low budget nature of the operation, there's no money to improve the look of the operation, creating an eyesore that cannot be improved as the land owner is happy to lease to those paying the bill.

You like the service, but prices cheaper than an automatic wash Vs manual labour can only be achieved with some unfortunate compromises.

 

[johnb80]

I don't want to be impolite here, but you are misinformed.

Straight talking, no offence taken, I'm not wrong in the car washes I'm talking about in my locality.

I have first hand knowledge and personally know people that work in these places.

I too know the people involved with these places and theyre all happy with their lot and are developing their relative businesses over the last 5 years or so with the same crew onboard.

Please look at this:

https://www.antislaverycommissioner.co.uk/media/1238/labour-exploitation-in-hand-car-washes.pdf

Quote from the article:

"Research indicates that there are workers who have been positively identified as victims of modern slavery and human trafficking and workers subject to lower level forms of labour abuse. There is also a variance in terms of identification as a victim: some workers self-identify as victims of modern slavery or trafficking and some who would fit the necessary indicators do not, as they may view their situation as a better opportunity to alternative options for employment. The same finding applies to lower level forms of abuse."

significant parts of the document you reference:-

"We did not undertake first-hand investigations of HCWs"

"There is also a variance in terms of identification as a victim: some workers self-identify as victims of modern slavery or trafficking and some who would fit the necessary indicators do not, as they may view their situation as a better opportunity to alternative options for employment."

"However, the lack of data on this sector makes it difficult to assess the prevalence of labour exploitation in HCWs in different areas in the UK"

"Research indicates that there is limited evidence to suggest that individuals are being trafficked to the UK to specifically work in HCWs."

"The proliferation of HCWs in the UK could be indicative of inadequate enforcement of environmental policies."

It's far from being as clear as you suggest, third or fourth hand information that isn't definitive at best. Very much like the horror stories that are embellished and distributed about child slaves working in mines to get the materials needed for our electric cars that we use daily, are you going to suggest we should all abandon EV's too?

I appreciate your entrepreneur attitude here, and there is a place for lower paid jobs for those that are getting started out, but this is an entirely different situation that needs intervention.

Not really entirely different, it's about being able to pay someone an amount of money that we can afford for their time and skills which they are willing prepared to give.

The other aspect of this, is that they present an issue for local authorities in terms of land use. Typically they are run from old petrol stations, and in some cases workers have to live on site in poor conditions in unauthorised living accommodation. And the reason why they do that? Low wages.

Consider the alternative, living rough on the streets, involved with crime to get food to live. Is it not better to have some food in their stomach and roof over their head? I know which I would prefer.
The HCW's local to me all have water collection systems so collect and process their waste water and are operating on pretty decent sites.

Because of the low budget nature of the operation, there's no money to improve the look of the operation, creating an eyesore that cannot be improved as the land owner is happy to lease to those paying the bill.

And the site would obviously be improved if it was unused and allowed to become completely derelict? The three sites I use, one is attached to a maintenance garage, one in the service yard of a new shopping centre and one is on site at a car rental business.

You like the service, but prices cheaper than an automatic wash Vs manual labour can only be achieved with some unfortunate compromises.

With all due respect, that's your opinion as opposed to fact. An automatic car wash is a very expensive piece of equipment requiring substantial installation infrastructure and incurs significant running costs.

Three sides to every story, one, the other and the truth! Thanks for the info and discussion, it is interesting for sure but being a stubborn old git, my views remain the same.

J

 

[GRK]

This thread is about the use of pressure washers it is not a forum for people to air their political views. Please stick to the subject of the thread.
I use a car wash regularly that use high pressure washers and have had no problems.

 

[johnb80]

This thread is about the use of pressure washers it is not a forum for people to air their political views. Please stick to the subject of the thread.
I use a car wash regularly that use high pressure washers and have had no problems.

MMM, self appointed moderator! Apologies for thread drift Mr McKye.

I too use a pressure washer with some common sense there are no problems.

 

[Bodgerx]

Straight talking, no offence taken, I'm not wrong in the car washes I'm talking about in my locality.


I too know the people involved with these places and theyre all happy with their lot and are developing their relative businesses over the last 5 years or so with the same crew onboard.


significant parts of the document you reference:-

"We did not undertake first-hand investigations of HCWs"

"There is also a variance in terms of identification as a victim: some workers self-identify as victims of modern slavery or trafficking and some who would fit the necessary indicators do not, as they may view their situation as a better opportunity to alternative options for employment."

"However, the lack of data on this sector makes it difficult to assess the prevalence of labour exploitation in HCWs in different areas in the UK"

"Research indicates that there is limited evidence to suggest that individuals are being trafficked to the UK to specifically work in HCWs."

"The proliferation of HCWs in the UK could be indicative of inadequate enforcement of environmental policies."

It's far from being as clear as you suggest, third or fourth hand information that isn't definitive at best. Very much like the horror stories that are embellished and distributed about child slaves working in mines to get the materials needed for our electric cars that we use daily, are you going to suggest we should all abandon EV's too?


Not really entirely different, it's about being able to pay someone an amount of money that we can afford for their time and skills which they are willing prepared to give.


Consider the alternative, living rough on the streets, involved with crime to get food to live. Is it not better to have some food in their stomach and roof over their head? I know which I would prefer.
The HCW's local to me all have water collection systems so collect and process their waste water and are operating on pretty decent sites.


And the site would obviously be improved if it was unused and allowed to become completely derelict? The three sites I use, one is attached to a maintenance garage, one in the service yard of a new shopping centre and one is on site at a car rental business.

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With all due respect, that's your opinion as opposed to fact. An automatic car wash is a very expensive piece of equipment requiring substantial installation infrastructure and incurs significant running costs.

Three sides to every story, one, the other and the truth! Thanks for the info and discussion, it is interesting for sure but being a stubborn old git, my views remain the same.

J

There are always going to be good examples out there. But all the evidence points to the majority having a track record of minimum wage violations and worse. I'm sorry, but those are the facts.

We can't be blinkered to this stuff.

Please only use these types of places where you fully know the background.

 

[johnb80]

There are always going to be good examples out there. But all the evidence points to the majority having a track record of minimum wage violations and worse. I'm sorry, but those are the facts.

Not according to the report you gave the link to, it was far from fact it was suspicion only and that was third or fourth hand information, circumstantial at best

We can't be blinkered to this stuff.

Most of arent blinkered, just realistic and don't jump on the current trendy bandwagen without knowing true FACTS which currently we dont.

Please only use these types of places where you fully know the background.

But it's ok to keep using EV's and their batteries? you seem to have skipped this question.

I'll stop commenting now, the apprentice moderators are getting a bit excited about fred drift.

 

[Nicko]

We bought Chinese cars, slave labour in China comes to mind?