ZS EV Battery Upgrade

[Seve]

Is it possible to upgrade the battery KW size on a Gen 1 MGZS EV? I have the 44.4 kw battery range 150 ish, can you change the battery to for instance the battery on a MG 5?

 

[Alb]

Not really feasible.
Upgrade you car if you want a bigger battery. This will open the choice of both ZSEV and MG5 LR versions.

 

[hmadsen]

i would imagine that it would be more realistic to swap it out for one of the batteries in the new ZS EV.

Size, and shape would probably be a lot more like your ZS EV.

If it is at all possible to get a larger battery pack working in the "old" style ZS EV is another question alltogether.

I would imagine, that the firmware in the car is set up for the battery that is in the car, and it might not want to charge the battery above what it thinks the battery is rated at.

Not to mention, that the battery chemistry in the new battery is probably different, so you will probably have to get the BMS from the newer version as well....And maybe even the charger is different...Plus, integrating the new style BMS into the old style car, will probably require a fair bit of programming, which i am willing to bet, MG will not help you with.

Not saying it will be impossible, but it is certainly not going to be like loosening the screw, that holds the battery cover, and then popping in a new pair of batteries......Not going to be cheap either i would imagine.

 

[Seve]

Thank you for your replies, confirmed what I thought, have to save up for the Gen 2 version.

 

[hmadsen]

Thank you for your replies, confirmed what I thought, have to save up for the Gen 2 version.

My guess is that if you add up the price you could get for your first gen ZS EV, and the price for a second gen ZS EV battery, plus installation, you will find that you could have bought a second gen ZS EV for less.

 

[Kithmo]

Sounds like a business plan to me.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Is it possible to upgrade the battery KW size on a Gen 1 MGZS EV? I have the 44.4 kw battery range 150 ish, can you change the battery to for instance the battery on a MG 5?

Try Cleevely garage in Cheltenham. I know they do LEAF battery swaps so they should be able to advise.

Cleevely Electric Vehicles | Electrical Vehicles | Gloucestershire

We are Cleevely Electric Vehicles. We help families, businesses and fleets across Gloucestershire switch from petrol & diesel to low emission, EV vehicles.

www.cleevelyev.co.uk

 

[N2STY]

I would say it's to early for this upgrade give it a few years when aftermarket companies can see there's money in older evs batteries upgrades and software there are upgrades now for the leaf for instance it will be more common for battery upgrades as the 2nd hand ev car market grows its got no choice now to evolve

 

[BarryH]

Try Cleevely garage in Cheltenham. I know they do LEAF battery swaps so they should be able to advise.

Cleevely Electric Vehicles | Electrical Vehicles | Gloucestershire

We are Cleevely Electric Vehicles. We help families, businesses and fleets across Gloucestershire switch from petrol & diesel to low emission, EV vehicles.

www.cleevelyev.co.uk

I saw a short YouTube from James at Cleevely a little while back saying that they had stopped doing the Battery Swap Upgrades there were a number of complications.

With the ZS and MG5 different batteries result in different battery voltages and therefore a custom BMS and software build.

Steer away from such sorcery if you value your warranty and resale value is my advice.

 

[Jnetd]

Ah, this answers my question. I was sold the 44.4kw battery ZS ev in Ireland a year ago and sadly didn't do my research! Although I did ask if a larger battery would come soon and was told it wasn't likely ! 3 months later it arrived in Ireland! Just hoping the vehicle will hold value with a smaller battery so I can upgrade in time. Although it only really affects me on long drives. I guess the larger the battery, the longer to charge it?

 

[Deleted member 9196]

Ah, this answers my question. I was sold the 44.4kw battery ZS ev in Ireland a year ago and sadly didn't do my research! Although I did ask if a larger battery would come soon and was told it wasn't likely ! 3 months later it arrived in Ireland! Just hoping the vehicle will hold value with a smaller battery so I can upgrade in time. Although it only really affects me on long drives. I guess the larger the battery, the longer to charge it?

There will always be a market for not-long-range EVs. Most journeys are less than 20 miles.

Yes, the bigger the battery, the longer charge at 7kW or less (as in most home charging). Rapids depend on several other factors, not just capacity.

 

[Jnetd]

There will always be a market for not-long-range EVs. Most journeys are less than 20 miles.

Yes, the bigger the battery, the longer charge at 7kW or less (as in most home charging). Rapids depend on several other factors, not just capacity.

I suppose at least I didn't pay double for the new long range vehicles. Apart from the battery I think it was good value

 

[kemot]

Hi
I was forced to replace the battery in my MG ZS EV Long Range (I bought the car with a damaged incomplete battery ) - I replaced it with a functioning newer one, of course also from the LR version but from another vehicle.
Unfortunately, the BMS has the VIN number from the previous vehicle entered. The Replace option in SIPS is unavailable (there's no programming option) and it states that the BMS VIN number is incompatible.
Do you know how to input my car's VIN into this used BMS? I think that if it were a new BMS without an entered number, there would be a Replace option.
Maybe the old number needs to be deleted somehow - what is the method?
Thank you for your help.

 

[hmadsen]

Hi
I was forced to replace the battery in my MG ZS EV Long Range (I bought the car with a damaged incomplete battery ) - I replaced it with a functioning newer one, of course also from the LR version but from another vehicle.
Unfortunately, the BMS has the VIN number from the previous vehicle entered. The Replace option in SIPS is unavailable (there's no programming option) and it states that the BMS VIN number is incompatible.
Do you know how to input my car's VIN into this used BMS? I think that if it were a new BMS without an entered number, there would be a Replace option.
Maybe the old number needs to be deleted somehow - what is the method?
Thank you for your help.

This is probably one of those cases where the manufacturer will say the VIN is programmed into a OTP (One Time programmable) part of a chip.

The chips is essentially branded with a VIN and this will have to match up with the VIN in all of the other modules like it.

They will claim they do it for theft protection, you can not steal one and sell it as a used second hand item, but in reality this is mostly about making sure you are unable to use a second hand one and instead are forced to buy a "virgin" unit from them, and have them program it for you.

Sometimes "hackers" find a way to reprogram these anyway or to just replace the chip with a fresh one and then program that, but seeing as the ZS EV is not sold in huge quantities there might be no one that put the effort into "hacking" the ZS EV BMS.

I know there are now tools available to replace a battery module in the Nissan Leaf, but it required them to find secret keys to unlock the BMS for reprogramming, these are cars from 2012 and i bet a car that is 10 years newer, development wise has not got less protection.

I am guessing the BMS is inside the battery pack you bought ?

My thinking is, the best bet you have is, if the BMS from the original battery could be extracted from the battery pack, and could be swapped over. I sincerely hope, they did not make it impossible to replace a BMS, essentially making it needed to replace the whole battery pack if the BMS goes bad.

Oh, another option i have seen on some cars is, someone has made a "Man in The middle attack" where they essentially put a microprocessor in between the BMS and the rest of the car.

What it does is, intercept every commmand send to and from the BMS and then just relay it....Unless it is a "What's your serial", in that case the MiTM microprocessor will just tell the cars ECU, the VIN it is expecting.

Again....Someone has to have made it for you to be able to use it.

 

[kemot]

This is probably one of those cases where the manufacturer will say the VIN is programmed into a OTP (One Time programmable) part of a chip.

The chips is essentially branded with a VIN and this will have to match up with the VIN in all of the other modules like it.

They will claim they do it for theft protection, you can not steal one and sell it as a used second hand item, but in reality this is mostly about making sure you are unable to use a second hand one and instead are forced to buy a "virgin" unit from them, and have them program it for you.

Sometimes "hackers" find a way to reprogram these anyway or to just replace the chip with a fresh one and then program that, but seeing as the ZS EV is not sold in huge quantities there might be no one that put the effort into "hacking" the ZS EV BMS.

I know there are now tools available to replace a battery module in the Nissan Leaf, but it required them to find secret keys to unlock the BMS for reprogramming, these are cars from 2012 and i bet a car that is 10 years newer, development wise has not got less protection.

I am guessing the BMS is inside the battery pack you bought ?

My thinking is, the best bet you have is, if the BMS from the original battery could be extracted from the battery pack, and could be swapped over. I sincerely hope, they did not make it impossible to replace a BMS, essentially making it needed to replace the whole battery pack if the BMS goes bad.

Oh, another option i have seen on some cars is, someone has made a "Man in The middle attack" where they essentially put a microprocessor in between the BMS and the rest of the car.

What it does is, intercept every commmand send to and from the BMS and then just relay it....Unless it is a "What's your serial", in that case the MiTM microprocessor will just tell the cars ECU, the VIN it is expecting.

Again....Someone has to have made it for you to be able to use it.

Unfortunately, I do not have the original BMS because it would have been easiest to replace it along with the EDM (I replaced the EDM with the original one).
The car I bought had a disassembled battery; it was missing the BMS and high-voltage connections between the modules, and one of the modules has 0V. That’s why I bought a complete 72kWh battery at a fairly good price.The car works; it starts up without reporting an error in the BMS.
The VDS software also does not have any issues, but SIPS shows that the configuration file and application are outdated and does not allow for an update because ... the VIN is incompatible.

I'll write to my "Chinese friend" who sent me the other components to find out how much a new BMS costs in China. If the price is acceptable, I might buy it. However, updating the ECU BMS is one of the more important tasks, and it would be worth installing it—though at the moment, I cannot do that.

Today, I made the replacement, here is my old and "new" battery .

 

[hmadsen]

So does the car actually "work"

I mean....Can you drive it without it raising a stink, throwing error messages up on the displays.

If so, what is it you need the BMS update for, you say it is important, but for what reason ?

Just curious as always.

 

[kemot]

Yes, of course the car drives without any issues and additional special effects that you mentioned.
Why am I thinking about this?
I assume that some problem may arise (like the well-known BMS issue a few years ago), and then an update will be necessary – I like to be prepared for such challenges or at least know how to deal with them.

Thank you for your interest! – the ZS is my first BEV and my first MG but I have had a PHEV Chevy Volt for 7 years, so EVs have been with me for a few years – I see that it's worth asking on this forum because there are always people willing to help!

 

[hmadsen]

Yes, of course the car drives without any issues and additional special effects that you mentioned.
Why am I thinking about this?
I assume that some problem may arise (like the well-known BMS issue a few years ago), and then an update will be necessary – I like to be prepared for such challenges or at least know how to deal with them.

Thank you for your interest! – the ZS is my first BEV and my first MG but I have had a PHEV Chevy Volt for 7 years, so EVs have been with me for a few years – I see that it's worth asking on this forum because there are always people willing to help!

Aah okay, i understand that and offcourse an "updated" car is preferable.

Actually quite bad, the BMS can not be reprogrammed, the whole "Prevent theft" thing is not a good reason to not even make it so that a certified garage with MG tools, could not reprogram it.

I wish you luck in getting a "blank" BMS and getting it programmed, the ZS EV is a lovely car that, much like women, have some quirks

 

[Eclectic]

Unfortunately, I do not have the original BMS because it would have been easiest to replace it along with the EDM (I replaced the EDM with the original one).

I've just had the EDM (Electric Drive Module) and CMU (Cell Monitoring Unit) replaced on my ZS Trophy LR under warranty, and have been searching to find more info on the units, without success.

The car just wouldn't boot one evening, getting so far and then popping up the "HV shutoff" warning - it's taken 3 months to get it back on the road!

Could you point out either of those units in your pics please?

 

[kemot]

Hi

On my photo you can see one CMU (Current Measurment Unit) module, there are actually 6 of them, one for each LiIon battery module.

There is no Electric Drive Module on it (I can't find one on the wiring diagram) but there is an Electrical Distribution Module (EDM) the orange one which is placed on the front of the battery where the blue arrow points. If you had a problem with the battery then I'm sure it was about these components.


PS. By the way, if someone would be looking I have for sale working LiIon modules from such a battery part.no.11313090 , CMU modules part.no.10995021, harnesses and the whole complete aluminium case ZS11EMCE with cover part.no.10767381 (sealed not damaged, all bolts are there) from my MG ZS EV LongRange - the battery has covered 15.000km in the car - write a direct message if you want more information