Battery equalisation on ZSEV Trophy LR

[Lovemyev]

Of course you are correct, pretty much. But we all know this so what point are you making?

Not everybody I am sure, this forum was created with the intention of sharing and exchanging / information / knowledge and experiences, with other EV members both new and old.
I myself have gained a lot of very useful information from other members who are much more experienced in matters of EV technology and I am extremely grateful.
In the very early days when MG brought the first EV to market in the U.K. the knowledge held by the dealers was very weak, to say the very least.
Often members of the forum were able to provide help and assistance, way above what the dealers could provide, with probably the exception of Miles Roberts of the Chorley group, who was instrumental in forming this forum with Stuart.
Hopefully the aim remains the same, by offering help to other EV owners.
Many posts are headed with :- “ I am new to the EV world and have a stupid question to ask”.
The only stupid question, is the one that is not asked at all !.
So in ref to your quote :- “But we all know this” is not entirely correct really.
That is my point.

 

[Data]

Oh I see Lovemyev. Yes, the forum is very good indeed. I too have learned from others on here. It's often those little things that you can't find in the owners manual.

 

[Lovemyev]

Oh I see Lovemyev. Yes, the forum is very good indeed. I too have learned from others on here. It's often those little things that you can't find in the owners manual.

100% Agree .
A really good bunch of people who are only too willing to help regardless of how many times the same question gets asked.
Takes me back to when, as an early adopter of the first ZS EV we did not have the ability to delay charge at home and take advantage of “off peak” electricity.
The car simply did not have it !.
One of the very clever members came up with a solution that only cost less than £10 that would allow this to happen.
He made a fantastic video and posted it on YouTube to help people along the way, including myself.
He had solved the issue while MG and Podpoint were still arguing who was responsible for the issue.
Clearly it was the manufacture and not P.P. They were just trying to back heel the job.
It was months before they responded with a half arsed fix tbh.
The forum member had it sorted in days !.
We all had a lot to be thankful for to that member alright.
“Power of the people” in action I guess !.

 

[Data]

That would be great to see.
Do you zero your accumulative total trip meter when taking your results ?.
235 - 245 miles of predicted range sounds more like the prediction in ECO mode not NORMAL mode ?.
Our car predicted 211 - 213 miles of range when charging to 80% SOC.
This was consistent every time for at least the first 18 months or so.

Lovemyev, Just to say I charged to 80% last night without resetting trip etc. My predicted range this morning is showing as 242 in normal mode. When flicking to eco this adds 13miles...so 255 miles. I find NOT resetting the trips gives me a far more accurate range prediction as the car seems to base the range on my actual past range achieved and actual driving style. At least I think so. So I don't always do that. This is bourne out by my pencil & paper calcs & miles recorded. Overall I'm very pleased with the cars range. Just to add, my car is now 7 months old.

 

[Lovemyev]

Lovemyev, Just to say I charged to 80% last night without resetting trip etc. My predicted range this morning is showing as 242 in normal mode. When flicking to eco this adds 13miles...so 255 miles. I find NOT resetting the trips gives me a far more accurate range prediction as the car seems to base the range on my actual past range achieved and actual driving style. At least I think so. So I don't always do that. This is bourne out by my pencil & paper calcs & miles recorded. Overall I'm very pleased with the cars range. Just to add, my car is now 7 months old.

That is precisely what I would expect to see on a car that had only covered 7,000 miles.
The higher range without resetting the trips in normal and eco will be elevated.
Repeat the process before you use the car and clear the accumulated trip meter, what does the range say now at 80% SOC.
It will be around 211 - 213 miles for sure !.

 

[Data]

That is precisely what I would expect to see on a car that had only covered 7,000 miles.
The higher range without resetting the trips in normal and eco will be elevated.
Repeat the process before you use the car and clear the accumulated trip meter, what does the range say now at 80% SOC.
It will be around 211 - 213 miles for sure !.

When I clear the trips I get slightly less range showing because the car has no previous driving style to go by so I find isn't as accurate. But what does happen is the car adds miles to the range as I start to drive. So at 80% with no trips reset my car shows between 225-230 miles. I drive 12 to 18 miles & no drop in range. After that the range starts to go down. Or, other times the range starts going down for the first few miles then the range actually increases. Upon calculating total range achieved l find the actual range achieved can still be very much the same as when I clear the trips. The main advantage of not clearing the trips too often is the car seems to display a more accurate range figure from the start.

Edit: just to say, whether clearing the trips or not the battery capacity & range should always be the same (and I think this is also what you are saying Lovemyev) even if the predicted range is different.

 

[Lovemyev]

When I clear the trips I get slightly less range showing because the car has no previous driving style to go by so I find isn't as accurate. But what does happen is the car adds miles to the range as I start to drive. So at 80% with no trips reset my car shows between 225-230 miles. I drive 12 to 18 miles & no drop in range. After that the range starts to go down. Or, other times the range starts going down for the first few miles then the range actually increases. Upon calculating total range achieved l find the actual range achieved can still be very much the same as when I clear the trips. The main advantage of not clearing the trips too often is the car seems to display a more accurate range figure from the start.

That is precisely the behaviour I expect and it SHOULD report @Data.
Resetting the trips removed ALL the historical stored data by the car, so it bases your predicted ( this is the important word ) range on what capacity is stored in the pack.
It applys this method for 80% or 100% on the GOM.
The GOM is a purely a “Guess-O-Meter” or a “Suggestion” if you like, of what you MAY be expect to achieve; it bases this on the capacity the pack can absorb, and at that present moment in time, it factors the ambient temperature in this prediction.
Switch to ECO and it will naturally increase the range of course and sport mode will reduce its prediction significantly.
It does this purely because with the trips zero’d it has NO other mitigating factors, other than the stored energy the pack and external temperature.
This is why repeating this process as the car ages, will use the same calculation to interrogate the capacity of the pack.
So, in two years time and plenty of miles on the clock, together with the number of charging cycles recorded by the car ( yes it knows the number ) the predicted range will have reduced for sure !.
E.G. :- The car is brand new, you reset reset the trips, you charge to 80% and boot the car into the default settings ( which is normal and re-Gen level 3 ) it then reports a predicted range of between 211 - 213 miles.
Two years in the future you conduct the very same test, your range has reduced to, say 209 - 210 ish.
You are looking at the battery degradation right there.
I hope this make sense and I have done this on three electric cars over the last 8 years and it provides the same returns.
We all what to see more predicted miles from the car, but this can be very misleading when you witness elevated figure WAY above what the car can technically achieve.
Starting a long journey with a estimated range of say 245 miles and expecting it to drive that far is a pipe dream.

 

[JohnV6]

I'm not resetting my trip for exactly this reason. I know in winter it will be too high & summer too low.
I chart the actuals and the weighted avg based on miles driven.

Just like a car fuel gauge I start looking to top up at aroud 25%

 

[Data]

Yes, John I find by NOT resetting the trips I actually get a more accurate driving range on the GOM because the car knows how I've been driving. If you clear the trips the car doesn't have that info & has to make it's guesstimate based upon default battery capacity algorithms & temperatures. That's actually not as accurate for MOST people. I know this because I've carried out several detailed analysis of the ACTUAL miles I cover per charge compared to the estimated range the GOM shows. We have 5 EV's in the family & all of them seem to behave the same in this respect.

 

[Data]

That would be great to see.
Do you zero your accumulative total trip meter when taking your results ?.
235 - 245 miles of predicted range sounds more like the prediction in ECO mode not NORMAL mode ?.
Our car predicted 211 - 213 miles of range when charging to 80% SOC.
This was consistent every time for at least the first 18 months or so.

TBH, I've never ever had a predicted range at 80% in normal mode as low as yours even after resetting the trips. After a reset I normally get a guesstimated range in NORMAL mode between 232 to 235 miles & even close to 240 on very warm days. In eco it's often about 10 to 12 miles more in a fairly ambient temperatures but can be more. Your range seems more like you have your car in SPORT mode. In sport mode my range drops to around 225-228 miles. Those are actual figures that my GOM shows when selecting Sport.

Of course my battery hasn't as yet degraded by any real amount but of course this will happen. Have you tried a full battery & BMS equalisation by dropping down below 20% & remembering to switch off smart charging to avoid Octopus interrupting the charge which buggers everything up & stops equalisation from happening?? It seems to make a difference to actual & predicted range. I got another 14 miles of range when I first did it. This correlated with my pencil & paper checks so I know it was a real range increase & was fairly accurate.

 

[Data]

This was taken this morning after an 80% charge AFTER my wife got back from the shops. This was in NORMAL mode! Before she left it showed 234miles. It dropped from 240 odd as we put the cabin Aircon on full for a while before she left for shopping. Trips reset before charging.

EDIT: Just as I was reversing off my drive it went to 77%!

 

[JohnV6]

10% more than me. Pesky right foot!

 

[Lovemyev]

View attachment 39507
This was taken this morning after an 80% charge AFTER my wife got back from the shops. This was in NORMAL mode! Before she left it showed 234miles. It dropped from 240 odd as we put the cabin Aircon on full for a while before she left for shopping. Trips reset before charging.

EDIT: Just as I was reversing off my drive it went to 77%!

Yes - But did you reset both trip to zero !.
I very strongly suggest not, because the 240 miles is predicted by using your historical usage.
It dropped to 234 miles because of the use of the A/C, this proves that the car updates its prediction because it is compensating for the etc drain from the traction battery, if you had used the heater instead, then the range would have dropped even more, as the heater pulls even more at 7kW.
The prediction of 240 miles at 80% SOC is way too optimistic.
If you are happy to believe that what the GOM reports is remotely true or achievable, then fine and I have no more to say on the subject.

 

[Data]

Yes - But did you reset both trip to zero !.
I very strongly suggest not, because the 240 miles is predicted by using your historical usage.
It dropped to 234 miles because of the use of the A/C, this proves that the car updates its prediction because it is compensating for the etc drain from the traction battery, if you had used the heater instead, then the range would have dropped even more, as the heater pulls even more at 7kw’s.
The prediction of 240 miles at 80% SOC is way too optimistic.
If you are happy to believe that what the GOM reports is remotely true or achievable, then fine and I have no more to say on the subject.

Lovemyev, as I've said repeatedly, I get a pretty accurate GOM reading. I've repeatedly recorded my actual mileage covered compared to my predicted GOM range. Of course it's not always right because my journeys vary. But overall it comes very close most of the time & sometimes gives more than the GOM predicts. It just depends on all the variables & the journey itself.
What I want to know is how much range you get at 100% in normal mode. If you look back you'll see what mine is. My range seems more than yours for reasons already mentioned & I think this has affected your perspective on the subject. Mine is in keeping with some other ZS EV owners I know who have older cars. If I may say it seems as though your car needs a good equalisation charge. Perhaps more than one. I bet your range increases in real terms. And if you DO NOT reset your trips too often I bet you get a more realistic range on the GOM as it will be based on your actual driving style & journeys instead of a factory generic algorithm that doesn't have that information.
Anyway, we've said all we can on this. Sorry to the OP if we've hijacked the thread a bit.
Thanks Lovemyev...always good talking to you.

 

[Lovemyev]

What I want to know is how much range you get at 100% in normal mode.

I am sorry, but I am unable to give you this information, as we do own the ZS EV anymore, as of last weekend.
You are perfectly right and correct to expect your predicted range at 100% SOC will definitely be higher than our car, simply because your car has only covered about 7,000 miles compared our 26,000 miles and 3 years plus age of our car.
We will have conducted many many more charging sessions over your car, that is for sure.
The type of charge you receive and the numbers of cycles conducted, are all factors into the long term health of battery.
These are unavoidable unfortunately.
We now own the new MGS5 Trophy LR model, which is a completely different driving experience to the ZS EV in every single way.
This should come as no surprise really, as the S5 iwas designed from the floor up, to be a EV.
Unlike the ZS EV of course, which was derived purely from a petrol designed model, then converted into a EV.
The ZS EV was a great first attempt from MG at dipping its toe into the water, by entering a new segment in the market in the U.K.
In 2019 it had almost zero competition in the field, mainly due to its very affordable price.
This was a result of government grants and early adopter discounts to match by MG totalling £7,000.
But as time moved on, the word got out, Demand for the car outstripped the supply and left customers waiting up to 12 months for their orders.
At one point, dealers were instructed to take no more orders.
The popularity in demand triggered frequent price increase after increase.
In order to keep costs down and improve through put, they started removing certain features from the car, like the full pano sky roof etc.
This killed off the initial concept of bringing an affordable EV car to the masses now,
The ZS EV had started to lose the appeal and foot hold it once held, a shift from offering a good value for money principle.
The choice offered by the competition was similar now, both on features and price,
The bubble had burst !.
They needed a new model and fast to revive market share.
The reset button on the new S5 appears to firmly pressed and already we are seeing a return of incentives,
Offering sizable introductory discounts like we seen on the ZS EV in the early days !.
If it follows the same pattern as last time, then expect as popularity rises, the discounts will start to slowly dissolve and prices will start to rise again, bit by bit.
Snooze you lose I guess.

 

[Data]

That's excellent Lovemyev. Congratulations on the new MGS5 purchase. I'm sure you will love it.

Just a little point I'll mention re the ZS EV not that it's that important now but incase newbies or future secondhand prospective buyers don't know. The ZS was right from the start designed as a dual fuel vehicle for both petrol & battery electric propulsion. We know this because right at the start before it was released in any form MG announced this was the case with just 6 months between petrol & EV's being released. That's why for example it has a nice flat floor in the back & the whole design & construction underneath is completely suitable for mounting an HV battery. Doing it this way kept costs down of course but with very little actual compromise between the two versions.
I'm sure the MGS5 will be even better. So good luck with your new motor. Enjoy!

 

[Lovemyev]

The MG ZS was first released in the UK in November 2017 as a petrol-powered compact SUV. Its electric equivalent, the ZS EV, followed in the UK later, with the first-generation electric model appearing in 2019 and a refreshed ZS EV in November 2021.

Key dates for the MG ZS in the UK:

• November 2017: The petrol-powered MG ZS compact SUV was launched.
  
  
• Autumn 2019: The ZS EV, an all-electric version, was introduced.
  
  
• Summer 2020: A facelifted version of the petrol ZS was launched with visual updates and additional equipment.
  
  
• November 2021: A refreshed MG ZS EV with a longer range and new infotainment system went on sale.
  
  
• Autumn 2024: The second-generation MG ZS, including a new hybrid option, was launched.

 

[Data]

Yes, the EV version was not brought to the UK right away even though it had been already released elsewhere mostly in China.

 

[Lovemyev]

We were one of the first 1,000 customers to order the original ZS EV.
It arrived after about a 6 month wait in 2019.