Charge 12v battery using 12v charger?

TiMoleseyEV

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Hi I have an unusual issue I think. My ZS EV was in a garage for repair for over a week. During this time the 12V battery became critical - I have OVMS so was notified. When collecting it I recharged the HV battery overnight but this has not charged the 12V battery. OVMS has stopped polling as the voltage is too low. From other conversations on here it seems that the 12V battery is only charged by the HV battery when the car is in use, so the only way to charge it is to go on an unnecessary long journey.

Do any of you electrical experts know if its OK to use an external 12v mains charger attached to the 12v battery? Or does this risk damage?”
 
Should be ok if you disconnect it, only need to do one terminal 👍
 
I'd also go with charging disconnected.
The DC-DC Convertor may not be happy with an external charger input.
 
The DC-DC Convertor may not be happy with an external charger input.
It will be fine charging the battery with cables connected. I charge my Nissan Leaf with cables connected often. The DC-DC has (a) diode(s) in the output which will protect it from harm. All you're doing is raising the battery voltage from circa 12 V to circa 14 V anyway; there is voltage present at the DC-DC output all the time.

Disconnecting 12 V, although occasionally necessary to reset various ECUs, is not a great idea for long periods of time, IMHO.
 
If your 12v battery is really low and has been for a while, it may not recover well. I have this issue with my current VW golf.

As an aside, I came across this. It may not be applicable for the UK model but thought I'd post just in case.

 
Btw, I don't know what ovms is, but if it's something that runs via the odb2 port, is it possible this drained the battery?
 
Hi I have an unusual issue I think. My ZS EV was in a garage for repair for over a week. During this time the 12V battery became critical - I have OVMS so was notified. When collecting it I recharged the HV battery overnight but this has not charged the 12V battery. OVMS has stopped polling as the voltage is too low. From other conversations on here it seems that the 12V battery is only charged by the HV battery when the car is in use, so the only way to charge it is to go on an unnecessary long journey.

Do any of you electrical experts know if its OK to use an external 12v mains charger attached to the 12v battery? Or does this risk damage?”
You don't need to go on a long journey, just press the start button twice without using the footbrake. That will engage the HV battery to charge the 12v (gauge should register more than 12v on dash). Although it should have charged it while overnight charging so it is possible that your 12v is irretrievable.
 
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It will be fine charging the battery with cables connected. I charge my Nissan Leaf with cables connected often. The DC-DC has (a) diode(s) in the output which will protect it from harm. All you're doing is raising the battery voltage from circa 12 V to circa 14 V anyway; there is voltage present at the DC-DC output all the time.

Disconnecting 12 V, although occasionally necessary to reset various ECUs, is not a great idea for long periods of time, IMHO.
I have a smart CTEK 12 volt battery charger, that I have used to “Top Up” the battery on our ZS EV a couple of times.
It comes with an accessory fly lead that has two eyelet terminals, that can be permanently attached to the 12 volt.
The red positive terminal is attached directly to the + positive terminal of the battery, while the black eyelet - negative terminal attaches directly to a ground ( earth ) point on the chassis of the car.
At the other end of this short fly lead, there is a weather proof connector, that mates up with the leads on the CTEK smart charger.
Just very convenient, safe and quick to connect and use.
Much better and safer than using them crocodile clamps that tend to jump of the terminals !.
The charger does come with the crocodile clicks if you need them.
As said above, I have used this charger about 3 - 4 times now and not disconnected the battery terminals from the battery.
If I was using a high capacity garage charging unit, then I would consider disconnecting the - negative terminal first.
But a lot of the small smart / conditioning chargers are only providing a very low trickle charge over a longer period of time.
If you had a completely flat 12 volt battery and called out the rescue services, my guess would be that they would attach a commercial high powered jump pack directly to the terminals of the 12 volt battery, without disconnecting them of course.
So, using a low powered trickle charger with the battery terminals still connected is not a problem really.
I would purchase a trickle charger if I was you !.
 
I have a smart CTEK 12 volt battery charger, that I have used to “Top Up” the battery on our ZS EV a couple of times.
It comes with an accessory fly lead that has two eyelet terminals, that can be permanently attached to the 12 volt.
The red positive terminal is attached directly to the + positive terminal of the battery, while the black eyelet - negative terminal attaches directly to a ground ( earth ) point on the chassis of the car.
At the other end of this short fly lead, there is a weather proof connector, that mates up with the leads on the CTEK smart charger.
Just very convenient, safe and quick to connect and use.
Much better and safer than using them crocodile clamps that tend to jump of the terminals !.
The charger does come with the crocodile clicks if you need them.
As said above, I have used this charger about 3 - 4 times now and not disconnected the battery terminals from the battery.
If I was using a high capacity garage charging unit, then I would consider disconnecting the - negative terminal first.
But a lot of the small smart / conditioning chargers are only providing a very low trickle charge over a longer period of time.
If you had a completely flat 12 volt battery and called out the rescue services, my guess would be that they would attach a commercial high powered jump pack directly to the terminals of the 12 volt battery, without disconnecting them of course.
So, using a low powered trickle charger with the battery terminals still connected is not a problem really.
I would purchase a trickle charger if I was you !.
Same here. I bought the CTek when I had the Prius, which was known to lose 12v charge if used on short journeys often, as I do. I read somewhere that the 12v battery could be charged on the car (Prius) and connected up but not to use more than a 4A charger, so I bought the 3.8A CTek. I would guess the MG is similar, having a DC-DC converter like the Prius.
 
Thanks for all your comments. I disconnected the negative pole and charged using my fancy CTEK charger. It has taken 24 hours to get to this state. I’ll reconnect everything tomorrow and see what the MG voltage gauge says
 
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it is possible that your 12v is irretrievable.
I think it is very unlikely that the 12v will have been damaged by a slow discharge over a week. It will not be completely flat just lower than the car's electrical circuits would like to see for normal operation. This is after all just a 12v lead-acid battery found on any ICE car and they experience heavy current draw every day for years. An EV 12v battery is in normal operation kept within a volt or two of nominal and is whenever the car is READY doing very little other than smoothing out the voltage from the DC-DC converter it will only take a few minutes for the DC-DC Converter to recharge the !"v battery. Without the additional drain of the OVMS the 12v battery should hold up for several weeks if the car isn't in use. I keep one of those small Jumpstart battery packs tucked away in the boot for the unlikely situation that my 12v runs low when I have the Cooler box running while the car is unattended but I've not needed to use it yet.
 
Thanks for all your comments. I disconnected the negative pole and charged using my fancy CTEK charger. It has taken 24 hours to get to this state.
If has taken 24 hours to reach a fully charged state, then your 12 volt battery was truly flat or even defective.
Tomorrow or over the next few days will tell the story.
When I have used the CTEK on our car ( battery still connected ) it has shown displayed "Ready To Start" after about 1 - 1.5 hours.
Therefore the 12 volt was pretty much fully charged before connecting the CTEK.
 
If has taken 24 hours to reach a fully charged state, then your 12 volt battery was truly flat or even defective.
Tomorrow or over the next few days will tell the story.
When I have used the CTEK on our car ( battery still connected ) it has shown displayed "Ready To Start" after about 1 - 1.5 hours.
Therefore the 12 volt was pretty much fully charged before connecting the CTEK.
The full cycle on the CTek used to take anything from 12-16 hours on my Prius even when the battery was not flat enough to prevent the car from starting so 24 hours sounds about right for a flat (and bigger) battery.
Does you CTek look the same as @TiMoleseyEV 's in the picture (and mine) ?
Just wondering where the "Ready to start"display was ? 🤔
 
The full cycle on the CTek used to take anything from 12-16 hours on my Prius even when the battery was not flat enough to prevent the car from starting so 24 hours sounds about right for a flat (and bigger) battery.
Does you CTek look the same as @TiMoleseyEV 's in the picture (and mine) ?
Just wondering where the "Ready to start"display was ? 🤔
I will upload a picture of my CTEK charger latter, I am away from home at the moment.
 
Final update. All sorted. The battery is charged and working fine. OVMS is now playing up but that’s another stpry
Btw, I don't know what ovms is, but if it's something that runs via the odb2 port, is it possible this drained the battery?
OVMS is an app that runs on a smart phone, combined with a gadget that fits the ODB port. It polls occasionally draining some of the battery but stops when the voltage gets low
 

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I will upload a picture of my CTEK charger latter, I am away from home at the moment.
Hi @Kithmo .
As promised, here is a couple of images of my CTEK “Ready To Go” smart charger.
It has numerous modes that can be selected from a menu, from reconditioning to maintaining mode.
It is called “Ready To Go” because when connected to a low SIC battery, it will charge to a point when it detects that the battery has received enough charge, to attempt a start up to a conventional ICE engine.
When you first put the 12 volt battery on charge, it will run though a battery health check process first, before it starts applying a charge to the battery.
It then sets the charging rate to suit the condition of the battery.
I have tried it a couple of times on the ZS EV and it has only been on charge for about 1 - 2 hours, before it reaches the fully charged condition.
Which I guess indicates that the 12 volt battery was in a good state of health, prior to commencing the charge cycle.
 

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