Comfort Pack 2 Update MG ZS EV

[Mark Holmes]

Hi Folks,
This range issue has now thoroughly been investigated and put to bed. There are several YouTube commentaries on this issue. In fact @Stuart Wright recently uploaded one on this forum.
Please be realistic any changes in Range are due to temperature and temperature alone.
The truth of the matter is that of all the EVs in it's class the ZS EV is the worst in terms of range and fuel efficiency and the best in price. No amount of updating will change that so let us gracefully move on and focus on other issues we can improve like an app etc.

I hear what you say, but then how do you explain going from a normal 178 miles after a full charge to 218 miles the day after the update, the weather hasn’t just changed overnight....you saw for your self my post showing the 218 miles and so how do you explain that.
I would like to know what other members are getting on the GOM after a full trickle charge..

 

[Chrispydoc]

I'm not bothered what's causing it, but if my rage goes up a bit...I'm a happy chappie and happy to pass on details to other members .....

I don't see how we can improve an APP that we don't even have?

 

[KasEV]

OK Range, I will try to explain with some examples. The physics of batteries are such that warm weather results in higher efficiency while extreme hot or cold weather lowers efficiency.
The GOM requires a stable driving environment to be accurate. It uses the driving conditions over the last 3 to 10 mins to set the range. So if you are fully charged on the motorway where there has been a RTA and doing stop and start driving for about 3-5mins the GOM will automatically start showing a range of over 200 miles because the GOM will think this is city driving. If traffic clears and you start driving at 70 miles per hour it will drop again after 5mins to 130miles.
When you start your car in the morning the GOM uses the previous day's driving conditions to determine what it will show.
So if you had come off a motorway where you have been driving at 70mph and immediately charge you car to full it will show a range of 140miles and not 165miles because the GOM will think you will be driving at 70mph again. However if it takes you a while to locate the charger such that the GOM thinks it is the stop and start of city driving it may show 165 or even 200 then fall back to 140 when you start driving at 70mph again.
The figures you are getting are due to temperatures and changes to driving conditions but mainly to temperature.
Please note the city only drive range for ZS EV is over 200 miles. The mixed urban/motorway driving is 150 miles and motor only about 130 miles.
I hope you are now understanding how the GOM works and why it is recommended that in an electric car one drives at a steady 65 to 70mph on the motorway and always within limits in a city and with regen/kers. These all give the GOM a better chance of estimating range more accurately.

 

[Mark Holmes]

OK Range, I will try to explain with some examples. The physics of batteries are such that warm weather results in higher efficiency while extreme hot or cold weather lowers efficiency.
The GOM requires a stable driving environment to be accurate. It uses the driving conditions over the last 3 to 10 mins to set the range. So if you are fully charged on the motorway where there has been a RTA and doing stop and start driving for about 3-5mins the GOM will automatically start showing a range of over 200 miles because the GOM will think this is city driving. If traffic clears and you start driving at 70 miles per hour it will drop again after 5mins to 130miles.
When you start your car in the morning the GOM uses the previous day's driving conditions to determine what it will show.
So if you had come off a motorway where you have been driving at 70mph and immediately charge you car to full it will show a range of 140miles and not 165miles because the GOM will think you will be driving at 70mph again. However if it takes you a while to locate the charger such that the GOM thinks it is the stop and start of city driving it may show 165 or even 200 then fall back to 140 when you start driving at 70mph again.
The figures you are getting are due to temperatures and changes to driving conditions but mainly to temperature.
Please note the city only drive range for ZS EV is over 200 miles. The mixed urban/motorway driving is 150 miles and motor only about 130 miles.
I hope you are now understanding how the GOM works and why it is recommended that in an electric car one drives at a steady 65 to 70mph on the motorway and always within limits in a city and with regen/kers. These all give the GOM a better chance of estimating range more accurately.

I like the theory and I’m not going to get into an argument about this now, but that is not the case with mine. I post screen shots the other day of starting with 218, I’ve never had that before and the temperatures have been fairly consistent. I drove 56.6 miles at 65-70 mph around the M25 and arrived with about 144 mile left.
Just saying the proof was attached, this was not city driving..
Anyway let’s agree to disagree and I’ll see what happens to my range when we go back to 22 degrees and see if I lose the 30 miles gain witness recently.
Regards

 

[KasEV]

@Mark Holmes is,
OK. As we have all been saying it is only right we share our experience, knowledge and opinions so I accept your position on this.
I will just add that my EV boffins have just informed me that all GOMs take some time to react to change in driving conditions and relearn after updates before settling with an accurate reading. Apparently the ZS EV has one of the most accurate if not the best GOM on the market when tested in stable conditions. However it has one of the worst readings when it comes to rapid intermittent change in driving conditions.
I can only say I hope you do not get yourself stranded without power because you are lead to think the 44kWh battery on you ZS EV has all of a sudden become a 62kWh battery because of the C2 update.
That amount of Range increase by 50% will not occur without battery upgrade.
I know in your opinion what I have been saying sounds like electronics theory which is far removed from the reality of your experience.
In terms of electronics however what you're sayings is a physical impossibility. It's like me saying no chance that the earth is a globe. My conclusion being.... " the ground under my feet is flat hence the earth is flat" .
A pop from range 150 to 218 due solely to C2 update is unlikely. Most likely cause is the updated GOM relearning. Remember City driving only in eco and kers regen 3 will give a range of upto 250mls even before the update was available but that is not the true standard range. There are a thousand and one other reasons why the numbers on your GOM are not the true range.
Please update us with your numbers over the next few days.
So we can compare like for like you will need to do mixed urban motorway in N mode over 100 or more miles starting with a full charge then recharge to full and repeat to give the true range.

 

[Dave]

@Mark Holmes is,
OK. As we have all been saying it is only right we share our experience, knowledge and opinions so I accept your position on this.
I will just add that my EV boffins have just informed me that all GOMs take some time to react to change in driving conditions and relearn after updates before settling with an accurate reading. Apparently the ZS EV has one of the most accurate if not the best GOM on the market when tested in stable conditions. However it has one of the worst readings when it comes to rapid intermittent change in driving conditions.
I can only say I hope you do not get yourself stranded without power because you are lead to think the 44kWh battery on you ZS EV has all of a sudden become a 62kWh battery because of the C2 update.
That amount of Range increase by 50% will not occur without battery upgrade.
I know in your opinion what I have been saying sounds like electronics theory which is far removed from the reality of your experience.
In terms of electronics however what you're sayings is a physical impossibility. It's like me saying no chance that the earth is a globe. My conclusion being.... " the ground under my feet is flat hence the earth is flat" .
A pop from range 150 to 218 due solely to C2 update is unlikely. Most likely cause is the updated GOM relearning. Remember City driving only in eco and kers regen 3 will give a range of upto 250mls even before the update was available but that is not the true standard range. There are a thousand and one other reasons why the numbers on your GOM are not the true range.
Please update us with your numbers over the next few days.
So we can compare like for like you will need to do mixed urban motorway in N mode over 100 or more miles starting with a full charge then recharge to full and repeat to give the true range.

Listen to this man - try driving over 210 miles in your MG ZS EV on a single charge - it won't happen, no matter what the GOM says, it won't happen. You would need to average 5 miles/kWh for the entire trip, it will not happen.

 

[Paulie68]

Listen to this man - try driving over 210 miles in your MG ZS EV on a single charge - it won't happen, no matter what the GOM says, it won't happen. You would need to average 5 miles/kWh for the entire trip, it will not happen.

You actually need 4.75 to get 210 miles and there are taxi drivers using the ZS EV, where it's all sub 30 mph town work who have done it quite a bit I regularly get 180 miles in normal mixed A road, town, & a little motorway at 60 use, without even trying!

None of that has anything to do with the upgrade of course! I expect any increase due to this to be trivial if anything at all.

 

[Dave]

You actually need 4.75 to get 210 miles and there are taxi drivers using the ZS EV, where it's all sub 30 mph town work who have done it quite a bit I regularly get 180 miles in normal mixed A road, town, & a little motorway at 60 use, without even trying!

None of that has anything to do with the upgrade of course! I expect any increase due to this to be trivial if anything at all.

Sub 30mph around town, yes. However, this is not realistic driving for most. The ZS EV has 42.5kWh usuable. 4.75 x 42.5 = 201. I would still challenge anyone to do a "normal" journey and show 200+ miles travelled on a single charge in the MG ZS EV.

You say you get 180 regularly? Show me a photo of 180 miles travelled on a single charge - then you will get a gold star ?

 

[Paulie68]

Sub 30mph around town, yes. However, this is not realistic driving for most. The ZS EV has 42.5kWh usuable. 4.75 x 42.5 = 201. I would still challenge anyone to do a "normal" journey and show 200+ miles travelled on a single charge in the MG ZS EV.

You say you get 180 regularly? Show me a photo of 180 miles travelled on a single charge - then you will get a gold star ?

OK, give me a week or two and I'll show you a photo, might have to wait till it cools off though, as I'm hammering the aircon all the time at present and only getting about 160.

Entirely agree, 200 miles isn't happening under normal mixed use.

I'm not sold on the 42.5kWh useable figure either, I've measured mine when charging from 8% to full, allowing for 10% charger losses and when pro-rata'd to 100%, it came back at almost exactly 44.5kWh useable. I suppose the charger losses could be greater. Does anyone have a source proving usable capacity?

 

[Dave]

OK, give me a week or two and I'll show you a photo, might have to wait till it cools off though, as I'm hammering the aircon all the time at present and only getting about 160.

Entirely agree, 200 miles isn't happening under normal mixed use.

I'm not sold on the 42.5kWh useable figure either, I've measured mine when charging from 8% to full, allowing for 10% charger losses and when pro-rata'd to 100%, it came back at almost exactly 44.5kWh useable. I suppose the charger losses could be greater. Does anyone have a source proving usable capacity?

Excellent.. Looking forward to being proved wrong ?.

Bjorn has carried out several tests and assured the 42.5kWh figure is correct.

Pro-rata charging figures do not work. You have to actually drive the car from full to empty. That full has to be on a charger offering no more than 7kW charging rate and the batteries allowed to balance to ensure 100% on the entire battery pack.I

As a side note, you can tell if the batteries are being balanced by looking at the pulsing MG logo. When this glows solid then balancing is occuring. When the logo light goes out, then balancing is complete and battery is at its maximum charge level.

 

[Mark Holmes]

@Mark Holmes is,
OK. As we have all been saying it is only right we share our experience, knowledge and opinions so I accept your position on this.
I will just add that my EV boffins have just informed me that all GOMs take some time to react to change in driving conditions and relearn after updates before settling with an accurate reading. Apparently the ZS EV has one of the most accurate if not the best GOM on the market when tested in stable conditions. However it has one of the worst readings when it comes to rapid intermittent change in driving conditions.
I can only say I hope you do not get yourself stranded without power because you are lead to think the 44kWh battery on you ZS EV has all of a sudden become a 62kWh battery because of the C2 update.
That amount of Range increase by 50% will not occur without battery upgrade.
I know in your opinion what I have been saying sounds like electronics theory which is far removed from the reality of your experience.
In terms of electronics however what you're sayings is a physical impossibility. It's like me saying no chance that the earth is a globe. My conclusion being.... " the ground under my feet is flat hence the earth is flat" .
A pop from range 150 to 218 due solely to C2 update is unlikely. Most likely cause is the updated GOM relearning. Remember City driving only in eco and kers regen 3 will give a range of upto 250mls even before the update was available but that is not the true standard range. There are a thousand and one other reasons why the numbers on your GOM are not the true range.
Please update us with your numbers over the next few days.
So we can compare like for like you will need to do mixed urban motorway in N mode over 100 or more miles starting with a full charge then recharge to full and repeat to give the true range.

I use the car nearly everyday for work and I cover an area of Midland and South and cover some distance, neatly 6000 miles in three months so far and so will update regularly for all to see.
Please see day 1 (not used much at weekend) 193 miles shown on GOM at 6017 and note battery is not shown fully charged.

 

[Chrispydoc]

A chum of mine saying only the other day that his Tesla had a recent 'over the air update' and had seemingly suddenly gained a fair bit or range..from seemingly no-where!

Obviously the computer opperatng systems in all Electric cars are hugely complex.....VW is about to sack their top man, as they have thousands of their latest EV's, sat parked up, unable to sell them without a correctly functioning software set up. VW is a HUGE company.....and even they can't get it right first time...

 

[Frank]

Hi All,

It is quite simple how EVs can get an increased range due to a software update (BMS related usually). An EVs battery is a certain size and two of the BMS's function is to prevent undercharging i.e. whatever the size of the battery the HV switches off at a preset % say for argument sake 3% of the battery left. When it does this the user just gets informed "you MUST charge your car, plonker!!, but in reality the battery still has a % left and in a big battery that could actually be quite a few miles. One of the other functions is to prevent over charging and it works in the opposite direction in that when it reaches a certain % it stops charging and tells the user "you have a full charge", in actual fact you haven't, it might be stopped at 94% actual capacity.

All this is done in the interests of maintaining battery life. Now, if Mr manufacturer wishes he can update the BMS to adjust these figures which in effect can either give you less range (would probably never happen) but more likely would be an adjustment which enables the user to utilise more of the batteries size, i.e. more range. There becomes a point however that you can't go over or under unless you want to affect the life of the battery, for the sake of argument (bit cynical this) the manufacturers can engineer in quite a lot of leeway which enables them to update a few times and increase the range to the applause of the user, oh! my car is wonderful, more range!!!

So there it is, figures I used are hypothetical. Note the range could also be affected by other software updates that affect the efficiency of the electric motor etc etc but the given available percentage use of the vehicles battery pack is easy to do.

Regards

Frank

PS Don't forget once you have reached the maximum use of the battery you WILL NOT be getting more range (Except for efficiency updates and that would never give much anyway as it is the capacity of the battery that is the main overriding factor).

 

[Dave]

s

Just read that letter, it's disgraceful. The dinosaurs need to take a leaf out of Tesla's book... I shall be writing to MG UK to let them know they have probably lost any future new car purchases from myself.

Suggest you spend £45k and get yourself a Tesla.

 

[ging353]

Picking our new EV up next week, spoke to dealer and they have advised all updates will be done also a free set of mats and free Sureguard so cannot wait to see the little black beauty.

Wow....you got a good deal there.....I had to pay for a set of mats for mine and still haven't got the updates yet.

 

[KasEV]

Hi Folks,
Just a comment to try a settle this range issue.
There is a clear definition of range. That is the maximum distance a vehicle can drive on a single charge on the WLTP cycle.
It is not simply what you GOM shows.
What you GOM shows is just a simple guide which varies so much with temperature, weather, driving style and battery size etc as you all know.
Range on WLTP cycle for ZS EV is 163 miles according to MG. All the real life test that have been done so far show a true real life range of 150.
If I may politely ask, members should stop saying that their GOM is show 200 or 400 so it means range has increased. Everyone who wishes to prove a range increase should charge their car to full drive as close to a WLTP cycle for 100 miles at least and then immediately charge to full again and repeat the same test and if in a single charge they can travel further than the expected 180 miles for summer temperatures then they can come and claim an increase in range.
Please avoid taking pictures of your GOM showing all sort of numbers as proof of an increase in range as this does not reflect the actual WLTP cycle understanding of range.
All the GOM tells you is that if conditions remain exactly the same as there were in the last three mins you may be able to travel upto x miles. As soon as another 3mins has pass and conditions change it will show a different number y and again change in another 3 min to a different number and continue changing every 3 mins. If you keep travelling and run down the battery to zero the range will keep changing until it is zero but the total distance you have travelled will never be equal the x miles it showed at the beginning unless the driving conditions were exactly the same throughout the journey. In real life and in scientific terms the driving conditions over even a short journey are never 100% the same. The conditions change every second. In order to overcome this difficulty the concept of range as defined by a drive cycle was introduced. The cycle is thus a summation of different comparable driving conditions.
So my dear Folks, do not be deceived there is no way an update can increase a WLTP cycle range by 50% as some are claiming.
It is important to put such false claims to death because they otherwise take root and result in disinformation. Yes our GOMs may show all sort of higher figures in the summer that is normal. Our GOMs may show extraordinary figures after some types of updates but these never mean a 50% increase in range. The only thing that will cause a true change in range of 50% is a larger battery.
Please let me repeat again so there are no further arguments, no claims of increased range are true unless backed by a WLTP test no matter the numbers on the GOM.
We all await the results from those who have opted to do the WLTP test.

 

[Paulie68]

s

Suggest you spend £45k and get yourself a Tesla.

I'd rather leave the extra money invested in Tesla shares, that's why I bought the MG instead

 

[SteeveeLeevee]

Hi Folks,
Just a comment to try a settle this range issue.
There is a clear definition of range. That is the maximum distance a vehicle can drive on a single charge on the WLTP cycle.
It is not simply what you GOM shows.
What you GOM shows is just a simple guide which varies so much with temperature, weather, driving style and battery size etc as you all know.
Range on WLTP cycle for ZS EV is 163 miles according to MG. All the real life test that have been done so far show a true real life range of 150.
If I may politely ask, members should stop saying that their GOM is show 200 or 400 so it means range has increased. Everyone who wishes to prove a range increase should charge their car to full drive as close to a WLTP cycle for 100 miles at least and then immediately charge to full again and repeat the same test and if in a single charge they can travel further than the expected 180 miles for summer temperatures then they can come and claim an increase in range.
Please avoid taking pictures of your GOM showing all sort of numbers as proof of an increase in range as this does not reflect the actual WLTP cycle understanding of range.
All the GOM tells you is that if conditions remain exactly the same as there were in the last three mins you may be able to travel upto x miles. As soon as another 3mins has pass and conditions change it will show a different number y and again change in another 3 min to a different number and continue changing every 3 mins. If you keep travelling and run down the battery to zero the range will keep changing until it is zero but the total distance you have travelled will never be equal the x miles it showed at the beginning unless the driving conditions were exactly the same throughout the journey. In real life and in scientific terms the driving conditions over even a short journey are never 100% the same. The conditions change every second. In order to overcome this difficulty the concept of range as defined by a drive cycle was introduced. The cycle is thus a summation of different comparable driving conditions.
So my dear Folks, do not be deceived there is no way an update can increase a WLTP cycle range by 50% as some are claiming.
It is important to put such false claims to death because they otherwise take root and result in disinformation. Yes our GOMs may show all sort of higher figures in the summer that is normal. Our GOMs may show extraordinary figures after some types of updates but these never mean a 50% increase in range. The only thing that will cause a true change in range of 50% is a larger battery.
Please let me repeat again so there are no further arguments, no claims of increased range are true unless backed by a WLTP test no matter the numbers on the GOM.
We all await the results from those who have opted to do the WLTP test.

Well said KasEV. GOM = GUESS-O-METER

 

[Chrispydoc]

When the Plague descended so did Tesla shares.....a young chum of mine follows Tesla with great interest, he bought a shed-load at $300 each. Last time I checked they were over a $1.000.

 

[Paulie68]

When the Plague descended so did Tesla shares.....a young chum of mine follows Tesla with great interest, he bought a shed-load at $300 each. Last time I checked they were over a $1.000.

Your friend has been telling you porkies I think I follow TSLA in depth daily as I've a significant holding, the lowest point during the recent downturn was on the 18th March for a few minutes only and was $350.51!

They have recovered exceptionally well and are currently at $959.74.