France is Cheap - thanks to Granny Charger

[greeiig]

Hi all. Just a few observations on our recent - and very pleasant - trip to France.
Our previous trip - which was our first - was for skiing in the French Alps - and it had some challenges - 3+ charges in one day meant a much longer journey..
This time we spend two weeks around Normandy, Loire Paris and back and what a difference!
We did some longish journeys - 200-300 miles in a day, 4-5 hours in the car (thank you Audible).. But also some shorter ones.
Total Mileage was just over 1000 miles

Easy:

• In all but one trip we only had to charge once - meaning it took no longer than a comparable ICE trip
• doing about 300 miles with one stop is enough for most people I'd suggest
• All in all a very pleasant experience!

Cheap:

• We stayed in Air BnB's and took advantage of the granny charging - with French plug adaptor - so only needed two rapid charges in the whole trip
• It takes absolutely ages, but when you're staying in one place for a few days, it's not an issue.
• Our last stop was for one night. I parked and ran the extension lead and plugged in the Granny at 4pm, on 15%. Left next day at 11am on 75%!!
• total cost of our 1000 mile trip? 76 euros
• before you say it's unfair to charge and use host electricity. I kind of agree, but there is generally no way of agreeing how to measure or pay for it. Also, if I'm paying £1000+ for a week in a cottage, getting £20-40 worth of electricity isn't a big deal I'd say..

Big enough:

• We took a Roof box -a fairly streamlined one, but it most likely knocked a bit off our efficiency - we averaged 3,1 miles/KwH for the trip, which is pretty bad although I was right on the speed limit - 75mph/130kph - for much of the trip.
• I have three kids aged 11-13 and space in the back is an issue - they fight and elbow each other at the drop of a hat. But they soon settled down and with the help of a good audiobook - We've been through Harry Potter but now enjoying Hunger Games - the trip went smoothly
• No one mentions this much but a wide 2nd row seat that isn't just 2 seats plus an afterthought in the middle is hard to find - I don't think any EV's out there are any better in that department than the MG5?

 

[smokie]

Thanks for the report, mostly interesting and useful, but I totally disagree regarding using vast amounts of excess host electricity without letting them know. Maybe they do have a way of measuring and/or charging for it, did you ask or did it suit you better to assume they didn't? Even if they charged you at a reasonable rate your cost would still be well below an ICE car.

Their pricing, whatever it is, and however expensive you may think it is, is built around their cost model, which you do not know. And you even admit yourself that your last stop was just one night and you used probably over 30 kWh of their electricity.

I don't even own a second property so I have no vested interest, I just have a functional moral compass.

 

[greeiig]

Ouch! Fair enough @smokie .
When we stayed with a host on our ski trip I did ask and they had no problem with it.
Maybe I should have raised it. directly. I will go off and search for my moral compass..

 

[smokie]

Good boy LOL

Sorry if I sounded a bit ranty!!

 

[Jomarkh]

Can I ask what euro adaptor you used to convert you uk plug top?

 

[greeiig]

Can I ask what euro adaptor you used to convert you uk plug top?

It was just a bog standard euro adaptor that you get in any services. It seemed OK - I was worried about it overheating so checked a few times and it seemed OK. I also tried to charge in evenings when it was cooler

 

[greeiig]

Good boy LOL

Sorry if I sounded a bit ranty!!

No it was fair enough. I expect that more formal arrangements will start to be made for this situation as EV's get more common. We had 5 days at a posh campsite-type of place where we had a cabin (Sandaya Les Alicourts - I recommend). We noticed a few other vehicles about also plugging in.

 

[Jomarkh]

It was just a bog standard euro adaptor that you get in any services. It seemed OK - I was worried about it overheating so checked a few times and it seemed OK. I also tried to charge in evenings when it was cooler

Ok, i just wondered if it had an earth pin or just two?

 

[greeiig]

Just two pins but I believe there is an earth connection at the top of the plug. Different system to UK plugs. Not sure if that made sense..

 

[Barrie]

I live in France with a ZS and pay 0.17 cents per kw so if the AirBnB owners pay the same you used around 4.50 Euros of electric which is what I use for a 60% charge. At the moment in France we are still paying very low rates for our electric as most of it is either nuclear, wind or solar and the Government are doing their utmost to help.

 

[Fluffykins]

I've been looking for a solution to measuring kWh input with some kind of resettable counter. There are monitoring plug/socket devices available - Screwfix and Toolstation both do one but if the plug/socket gets fried working at high load for several hours, you need a complete new monitor.
Instead I found one of these on eBay.
6 in 1 Color Display Digital Energy Meter (KWS-AC300-100A Solid Core CT) *Z | eBay
It uses a current transformer, so the mains cable is under my control (and will be nice and heavy)
The monitor will go into a nice plastic box with a couple of strain relief grommets on incoming and outgoing cables.
I'll see how it turns out and maybe make a how-I-done-it post in a month or two.

 

[greeiig]

I live in France with a ZS and pay 0.17 cents per kw so if the AirBnB owners pay the same you used around 4.50 Euros of electric which is what I use for a 60% charge. At the moment in France we are still paying very low rates for our electric as most of it is either nuclear, wind or solar and the Government are doing their utmost to help.

Thanks for reducing my feelings of guilt!

 

[EVsince2016]

I always ask about paying for charging & availability of a plug etc.

Sometimes I am charged, sometimes not but I always tell the host how much energy I have used.

% added x battery capacity + 10% losses
150% added to 57kw battery + 10% etc

 

[Fluffykins]

I found one of these on eBay.
6 in 1 Color Display Digital Energy Meter (KWS-AC300-100A Solid Core CT) *Z | eBay
It uses a current transformer, so the mains cable is under my control (and will be nice and heavy)
The monitor will go into a nice plastic box with a couple of strain relief grommets on incoming and outgoing cables.
I'll see how it turns out and maybe make a how-I-done-it post in a month or two.

Well, the meter arrived jolly quickly and I happened across a nice weatherproof box at my local Screwfix when I went there on another mission.

The meter mounted into a cutout in the lid. There was plenty of room inside for cable management, terminations and the current transformer.

There's a couple of feet of cable to a decent 13A plug and 3 or 4 meters to a 13A trailing socket which can feed out thru a convenient letterbox and the granny plugged in outside, with a suitable cover over the plug if the weather looks remotely dodgy (main usage will likely be if we stay at my son's place).

Meter displays V, A, Temp, Power Factor, instantaneous kW, Duration and accumulated kWh.

The little blue button on the right resets the timer and/or kWh meter. Long (>5S) press puts the meter into reset mode. Short press toggles reset selection between accumulated kWh and time readings. Double press resets selected variable (flashing) and a further long press saves the values and exits reset mode.

It happily monitored my bread maker overnight (0.4 kWh if you're interested)

Tried it out in earnest for a couple of hours on the car with no complaints from the granny diagnostics and nothing getting warm.

Quite pleased.

 

[smokie]

Don't you have to cut the wire or take the plug off to attach the ring?

 

[Fluffykins]

Don't you have to cut the wire or take the plug off to attach the ring?

Yes. The heavy mains cable had to be cut anyway, to pass into, and out of, the two cable entries. It was then stripped back. The live conductor was put through the current transformer and joined with a suitable connector, whicl also allowed me to connect the live feed to the meter. The neutral and earth leads were cut a bit shorter and rejoined. The neutral feed to the meter was also connected to the neutral supply line.

 

[smokie]

Someone has promised to help me build something similar to use with my Raspberry Pi (though so far it sounds like it could be beyond my capabilities) and it uses a clamp rather than a ring, so easily portable between cables. Like this, which coincidentally appears to be for an EV project.

Project EV CT Clamp | Toolstation

Project EV CT clamp, for intelligent power adjustment and load management. Can be used with all Project EV AC charging stations. For use with (code: 47032)

www.toolstation.com

 

[Fluffykins]

Someone has promised to help me build something similar to use with my Raspberry Pi (though so far it sounds like it could be beyond my capabilities) and it uses a clamp rather than a ring, so easily portable between cables. Like this, which coincidentally appears to be for an EV project.

Project EV CT Clamp | Toolstation

Project EV CT clamp, for intelligent power adjustment and load management. Can be used with all Project EV AC charging stations. For use with (code: 47032)

www.toolstation.com

Would something like this make life a lot simpler? AC power measurement done by a dedicated specialist chip, leaving your Raspberry to just worry about number crunching and Comms.

PZEM-004T Single Phase Meter AC Ammeter Volt Power Kwh TTL RS485 CT Coil | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PZEM-004T Single Phase Meter AC Ammeter Volt Power Kwh TTL RS485 CT Coil at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[smokie]

Yes, I'd skipped the detail, that's very similar (same as, maybe) to what it is based on, with the addition of a WiFi card to relay data back to the HA Pi for display and recording. Data will go into a csv on my NAS I think, for crunching elsewhere (similar to how I operate with my half hourly Octopus data). When I can be bothered

 

[BugEyed]

I presume that you have used suitably rated joints such as Wago connectors?
As with any extension lead you lose the benefit of the temperature sensing plug at the end of the pEVSE when plugging into an "unknown" socket so you'll need to monitor it carefully.