France is Cheap - thanks to Granny Charger

smokie said:
Like this, which coincidentally appears to be for an EV project.
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ProjectEV is the name that Growatt EVSE are branded as by the UK importer. Good luck with getting any accurate calibration with that size of clamp - it's designed for meter tails not small wires.
 
BugEyed said:
I presume that you have used suitably rated joints such as Wago connectors?
As with any extension lead you lose the benefit of the temperature sensing plug at the end of the pEVSE when plugging into an "unknown" socket so you'll need to monitor it carefully.
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Yup. Connectors are suitably rated. The plug and line socket have both been in use for some time (with very careful monitoring, especially at the first few uses) with nothing untoward. The wiring to both was undisturbed, as I just cut the able and inserted the monitor box.
 
greeiig said:
  • before you say it's unfair to charge and use host electricity. I kind of agree, but there is generally no way of agreeing how to measure or pay for it. Also, if I'm paying £1000+ for a week in a cottage, getting £20-40 worth of electricity isn't a big deal I'd say..
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It's very easy, read the meter.

As a gite owner here in France believe me, by the time the taxes (which are rudely high here), licences, insurance, cleaning, maintenance, breakages etc. are taken into account, that £1000 very quicky becomes £250-300. If that's someones income, chopping a further 10% out of that is a very big deal I'd say.

We would never stop someone from charging an EV in one of our properties, but we do request that they ask first - having run gites for years, we know exactly how much electricity a 'usual' stay takes, so it's very easy to agree a way to charge; EDF also provide online useage readings every 30 minutes via the Linky equipment (French smart meters), so it's possible to be extremely accurate and we would only ever request the cost, not make a profit on the use. However, to just think 'well it's fair because I'm using the property' is not just unfair to your hosts, it's downright disrespectful.
 
It's very easy, read the meter
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Agreed, and I do make an over-the-odds contribution to my son if we stay with him and charge there. Similarly I at least make the offer if we stay and charge elsewhere, but that's currently very rare, in that it has arisen only once in 2 years.
The complication with reading meters is of course, other high rate electrical appliances on and off during the night - think immersion heaters, convectors and late night cooking.
That kind of thing, plus the inevitable need to guesstimate, is one driving reason for building my power meter.
One of these fine days, especially if other family end up with EV charge points, I might treat myself to another one of those little modules and build a monitored Type 2 lead. (Naturally being careful to maintain cable safety functions and physical integrity)
Maybe.
One day.
 
@JohnInFrance - Fair do's - I will know for next time.
It's interesting that I've seen loads of chat about planning trip etc, but never much about this subject before.
In order to estimate the power used - Forgive me if this is overly simple, but if I arrive at 10% and charge to 60% then can't I just estimate that I've used about 30KWH - given my MG5 has a 60 KWH battery?
That would do for working out a reasonable cost estimate n'est pas?
 
Add about 10-15% for charging losses in addition to the gained charge - so I'd look at 33-35kWh in your example. Note the higher figure is more relevant to a low current device, 6-10Amps, the lower figure a high current device.
 
BugEyed said:
Add about 10-15% for charging losses in addition to the gained charge - so I'd look at 33-35kWh in your example. Note the higher figure is more relevant to a low current device, 6-10Amps, the lower figure a high current device.
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I'd come here to say much the same thing.
So ^^^ wot he said
 
greeiig said:
Forgive me if this is overly simple, but if I arrive at 10% and charge to 60% then can't I just estimate that I've used about 30KWH - given my MG5 has a 60 KWH battery?
That would do for working out a reasonable cost estimate n'est pas?
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I would say that's pretty fair, especially if you allowed for charging loss as per @BugEyed post.

Allowing for rates of around €0.19 - €0.21 per kWh (thank you gov't for the 4% price cap!), 35kWh here would be around €8 - €9 inc. taxes (electricity rates differ between areas base upon local taxes - I kid you not) so wouldn't exactly break the bank and the homeowner would, I'm sure, be really greatful; now more than ever the old Tesco motto of 'every ittle counts' is so appropriate.

I'm not singling you out, your post just highighted the issue and made a good talking point, but the trouble is, if we, as EV owner's don't start off by doing the right thing then places such as gites, guest houses and potentially hotels (yes, I've honestly seen an extension lead draped out of a hotel window to charge a car!) will just say "non" and include this in their T&Cs and then one risks being in breech of booking conditions and could, in theory, be asked to leave over less than a tenner, whihc would be both a shame and a huge inconvenience for everyone involved.
 
I have had a bad experience charging this summer in the south of France.

AirBnB, advertised with an EV charger that was only an EU socket needing a 10m lead to reach.

I expected to pay for my EV use, agreed a rate, told her that I'd used 50kw but she charged me for 75 because I had used the oven and exceeded her 5kw per day allowance.

It can go both ways.
 
JohnInFrance said:
I've honestly seen an extension lead draped out of a hotel window to charge a car
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If that were my property I'd be more worried by the prospect of either the circuit tripping and upsetting other guests or of a fire starting. The sense of entitlement of some EV users is frightening.
 
EVsince2016 said:
I have had a bad experience charging this summer in the south of France.

AirBnB, advertised with an EV charger that was only an EU socket needing a 10m lead to reach.

I expected to pay for my EV use, agreed a rate, told her that I'd used 50kw but she charged me for 75 because I had used the oven and exceeded her 5kw per day allowance.

It can go both ways.
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What was the charge?
 
I used 50.67 kw and was to be charged at 20 cents per unit (no energy price rises there yet) but was charged for 75 units because I used the oven! Not too expensive for the electric but not what was agreed.

I paid it, then she sent me a 50 Euros cleaning bill because she found a foot print on the door mat, a small mark in the fridge and dirt inside the bin (she did not provide bin liners). I refused to pay!
 
EVsince2016 said:
I paid it, then she sent me a 50 Euros cleaning bill because she found a foot print on the door mat, a small mark in the fridge and dirt inside the bin (she did not provide bin liners). I refused to pay!
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Was the owner Fench? I ask this because there are generally significant differences between the way the French owned vs 'foreign' owned gites are let/managed.

In general, the French provide nothing, no bin liners, tea towels, towels, linen etc. and the renters are expected to bring/provide all of this themselves. They also do not include cleaning in the rental charge as they expect each guest to leave the place spotless, thus when it's not, they will apply cleaning charges (even if just cleaning a fridge, the cost will run to €40-50 for a min of 1hr and travel of the cleaner). That said, it does sound like you found the person who gives all owners a less than glowing image.

In contrast, places owned by Brits, Irish, Dutch etc. generally provide everything one would need including all linens, bin liners, cleaning equipments, dishwasher tablets etc. and they (we) expect the guests to clean, but not to a spotless state and price accordingly allowing for 2-3 hours for a cleaner at the end of the stay.

This all goes back to the idea of a gite way back when, it was a very basic place to stay (and in some cases, merely a shelter) for travellers; around the early 90's the foreign property boom started with Brits, Irish, Dutch etc. swooping up bargain properties, renovating them and starting to let them as holiday lets - this had the effect of changing the market and improving it significantly for the guests/renters, but many of the French owned properties are still firmly stuck in the late 70's/early 80's menatlity.
 
Energy prices are a lot more complicated than that.

For some reason for which you may speculate, electricity prices across the EU & UK are set by the wholesale gas prices.

Some countries now generate the majority of their power from non fossil fuel sources, such as renewables or nuclear, France being one and Scotland another. So why should people on a country weened off gas see huge electricity price rises when their actually generation cost has not increased. I did read somewhere that Spain & Portugal want to leave that EU wide system for this reason & even the UK is now challenging this approach. This actually subsidises countries like Germany who are heavily reliant on coal/gas.

An interesting change will be imminent.
 
JohnInFrance said:
Was the owner Fench? I ask this because there are generally significant differences between the way the French owned vs 'foreign' owned gites are let/managed.

In general, the French provide nothing, no bin liners, tea towels, towels, linen etc. and the renters are expected to bring/provide all of this themselves. They also do not include cleaning in the rental charge as they expect each guest to leave the place spotless, thus when it's not, they will apply cleaning charges (even if just cleaning a fridge, the cost will run to €40-50 for a min of 1hr and travel of the cleaner). That said, it does sound like you found the person who gives all owners a less than glowing image.

In contrast, places owned by Brits, Irish, Dutch etc. generally provide everything one would need including all linens, bin liners, cleaning equipments, dishwasher tablets etc. and they (we) expect the guests to clean, but not to a spotless state and price accordingly allowing for 2-3 hours for a cleaner at the end of the stay.

This all goes back to the idea of a gite way back when, it was a very basic place to stay (and in some cases, merely a shelter) for travellers; around the early 90's the foreign property boom started with Brits, Irish, Dutch etc. swooping up bargain properties, renovating them and starting to let them as holiday lets - this had the effect of changing the market and improving it significantly for the guests/renters, but many of the French owned properties are still firmly stuck in the late 70's/early 80's menatlity.
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The owner was French and lived on her own. AirBnB feedback was very positive with French visitors who note long friendly chats, but not from anyone else who noted absence & after departure bills.

We did try to engage but she avoided us. The hob didn't work, she told us to look for the instructions, we asked where the recycling & compost went she ignored us. All of my other French owned stays have been wonderful, bin liners, everything and a cleaning charge up front.
 
EVsince2016 said:
Energy prices are a lot more complicated than that.

For some reason for which you may speculate, electricity prices across the EU & UK are set by the wholesale gas prices.

Some countries now generate the majority of their power from non fossil fuel sources, such as renewables or nuclear, France being one and Scotland another. So why should people on a country weened off gas see huge electricity price rises when their actually generation cost has not increased. I did read somewhere that Spain & Portugal want to leave that EU wide system for this reason & even the UK is now challenging this approach. This actually subsidises countries like Germany who are heavily reliant on coal/gas.

An interesting change will be imminent.
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You are correct that generation costs here are lower, France gets 70% of its electricity from nuclear power. It has 56 nuclear reactors, 12 of which have been offline for several years due to corrosion issues, while others are currently undergoing maintenance.

Electricity generation is still cheaper here than say the UK, because of the remaining working nuclear plants, however, we also rely heavily on gas for generation, but France's gas stores are currently at 92-93% of winter requirements (Macron, 5th Sept). EDF generation costs have risen enormously over the last 12 months and it is this huge rise that the government has absorbed in 2022, blocking a rise that should have been 40% and capping at just 4% (without the energy cap staying in place for 2023, the increase in gas and electricity prices would be at least 100% - Economy Minister Bruno Le Maire).

The cap here finishes at the end of the year and it is expected that electricity prices will be capped at a 10% rise for 2023, so still significantly lower than other countries - I'm not a socialist, but having a nationalised energy supplier makes this possible. To put that in context with UK generation costs, the French government costs for this subsidy has been €24billion since autumn 2021, estimates for the cost to the UK government of the upcoming lower cap in the UK are £150 billion.
 
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EVsince2016 said:
The owner was French and lived on her own. AirBnB feedback was very positive with French visitors who note long friendly chats, but not from anyone else who noted absence & after departure bills.

We did try to engage but she avoided us. The hob didn't work, she told us to look for the instructions, we asked where the recycling & compost went she ignored us. All of my other French owned stays have been wonderful, bin liners, everything and a cleaning charge up front.
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Sadly, whilst not common, your experience is certainly not unique. the French would not stand for after departure bills either, so I guess she felt it was OK to try it on with non-French, whihc is a real shame. Hopefully this one bad apple won't sour your opinion of the country and you'll return again.
 
JohnInFrance said:
Sadly, whilst not common, your experience is certainly not unique. the French would not stand for after departure bills either, so I guess she felt it was OK to try it on with non-French, whihc is a real shame. Hopefully this one bad apple won't sour your opinion of the country and you'll return again.
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If I had to rate the countries I visited this summer for the people experience it would be: -

Portugal
France (best drivers - yes really!)
Spain
UK
Andorra
 
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