Home charger/evse help

[Jomarkh]

The car is the bit that does the charging so will pull up to the limit of the EVSE or the car itself.

 

[Lovemyev]

I asked the DNO guy's who carried out my service head replacement and upgrade of the main cut out fuse from 60 Amps to 100 Amps, the following question :-
"The present fuse installed is rated at 60 Amps, but would it actually fail / blow right at 60 Amps, or is there any margin above this rating value ?".
They told me that there is fairly higher safety margin that the fuse can carry ( short term ) before it actually failed.
Yes - It would carry a higher load than 60 Amps before it completely failed, but this not advisable to push it's limits regularly as it over stresses the fuse and overtime weakens it.
Our fairly large house was built in 1982 and the DNO decided that a 60 Amp protection fuse was more than enough to cover the demands placed on it at that current point in time.
Of course, higher loads of 10 Kw electric showers / EV charging points and induction hob's had not even been factored in back then.
Now it's a completely different situation of course !.
When I was a small boy, my grand parents has ONE single round pin 5 Amp outlet on the ground floor of their three bed semi.
My my - Things have certainly changed.

 

[jpk]

Dno called back and said they have no record of what size cut out fuse I currently have but would usually do a site visit when the evse is being installed. I asked would it cost anything to upgrade and the lady said she thinks it should be free as it's an upgrade that is contributing to reducing the carbon footprint, just wish I'd taken down her name for reference.

I just can't get over the aesthetics of the pod point so I'm swinging towards the easee one and the Simpson & Partners Home 7 plus has been brought to my attention which looks even nicer. Only concern with the Simpson & Partners evse is will they still be around in several years time or wrap up and move on like what they seemed to have done with the Anderson evse's

 

[Ayoull]

Dno called back and said they have no record of what size cut out fuse I currently have but would usually do a site visit when the evse is being installed. I asked would it cost anything to upgrade and the lady said she thinks it should be free as it's an upgrade that is contributing to reducing the carbon footprint, just wish I'd taken down her name for reference.

I just can't get over the aesthetics of the pod point so I'm swinging towards the easee one and the Simpson & Partners Home 7 plus has been brought to my attention which looks even nicer. Only concern with the Simpson & Partners evse is will they still be around in several years time or wrap up and move on like what they seemed to have done with the Anderson evse's

Does the Easter or the Simpson & partners support OCPP? As that's an openbackend standard that means you can move round which software platform you run your charger from.

I know wallbox, and Rolex support it

 

[jpk]

Does the Easter or the Simpson & partners support OCPP? As that's an openbackend standard that means you can move round which software platform you run your charger from.

I know wallbox, and Rolex support it

I'd be lying if I said I knew, never heard of it but I've only been looking into evse's for a few days

 

[Alb]

"The present fuse installed is rated at 60 Amps, but would it actually fail / blow right at 60 Amps, or is there any margin above this rating value ?".

Covered this here:

My HyperVolt Installation (lots of pics)

I went for hypervolt too and a new consumer unit about 6 weeks after getting my 5 EV, so I had plenty of time to experience using fast and rapid charging stations, it does take a bit of getting used to but afte several bad experience with Osprey and Tesco Podpoint (rapid), I quickly discovered...

www.mgevs.com

 

[Lovemyev]

Dno called back and said they have no record of what size cut out fuse I currently have but would usually do a site visit when the evse is being installed. I asked would it cost anything to upgrade and the lady said she thinks it should be free as it's an upgrade that is contributing to reducing the carbon footprint, just wish I'd taken down her name for reference.

I just can't get over the aesthetics of the pod point so I'm swinging towards the easee one and the Simpson & Partners Home 7 plus has been brought to my attention which looks even nicer. Only concern with the Simpson & Partners evse is will they still be around in several years time or wrap up and move on like what they seemed to have done with the Anderson evse's

Have you looked at the Hypervolt unit by any chance ?.
My local EV installer paid a visit to both mine and my brothers properties first.
He carried out a quick survey of our electrical set up before quoting on the EV install.
Recommending a gas and water ( CPC ) earth bonding cable size upgrade on our equipment, which was a "paid for" upgraded for us to settle.
The survey could be used to correctly access the suitability of the main cut out fuse and then the installer could make the request directly to the DNO to carry out the rework.
Or he may install the wall box and then notify the DNO of his findings on the rating of the main cut out fuse.
Reducing the max load the wall box can pull, until the main fuse has been upgraded ?.

 

[Ayoull]

Have you looked at the Hypervolt unit by any chance ?.
My local EV installer paid a visit to both mine and my brothers properties first.
He carried out a quick survey of our electrical set up before quoting on the EV install.
Recommending a gas and water ( CPC ) earth bonding cable size upgrade on our equipment, which was a "paid for" upgraded for us to settle.
The survey could be used to correctly access the suitability of the main cut out fuse and then the installer could make the request directly to the DNO to carry out the rework.
Or he may install the wall box and then notify the DNO of his findings on the rating of the main cut out fuse.
Reducing the max load the wall box can pull, until the main fuse has been upgraded ?.

Don't pull the cutout fuse, you're not permitted unless authorised by the DNO or it is a life or death situation.

And those that say how will they know if you state the fuse size they'll know as how else would you know

 

[Lovemyev]

Don't pull the cutout fuse, you're not permitted unless authorised by the DNO or it is a life or death situation.

I totally agree @Ayoull !.
I have witnessed this being done by professional / qualified staff, but under NO circumstances should anybody even consider for a second, consider it !.
It is illegal at best and deadly at the worst !.
Even a qualified spark should be contacting the owners energy provider to have their support team come out to carry out the disconnect / reconnect of the main cut out fuse.
Imagine as a spark, you and your lads are working on a row of 5 houses that all had different energy providers, you then have to contact them one by one, to carry out the work !.
Before the sparks can safely carry out their work.
Its just not practical and therefore gets omitted.
They have been fighting for permission to do this for a long time and it has recently relaxed slightly, for expanding a team for each energy provider, but been rejected once AGAIN for qualified sparks is my understanding !.
I know it is a much debated issue, but personally I think it is crazy system myself.
Here is a recent video that explains the rule changes that come into effect from summer 2023.
Advance the video to 03.35 minutes to pick up on the story.

 

[Ayoull]

I totally agree @Ayoull !.
I have witnessed this being done by professional / qualified staff, but under NO circumstances should anybody even consider for a second, consider it !.
It is illegal at best and deadly at the worst !.
Even a qualified spark should be contacting the owners energy provider to have their support team come out to carry out the disconnect / reconnect of the main cut out fuse.
Imagine as a spark, you and your lads are working on a row of 5 houses that all had different energy providers, you then have to contact them one by one, to carry out the work !.
Before the sparks can safely carry out their work.
Its just not practical and therefore gets omitted.
They have been fighting for permission to do this for a long time and it has recently relaxed slightly, for expanding a team for each energy provider, but been rejected once AGAIN for qualified sparks is my understanding !.
I know it is a much debated issue, but personally I think it is crazy system myself.
Here is a recent video that explains the rule changes that come into effect from summer 2023.
Advance the video to 03.35 minutes to pick up on the story.

If you saw the PPE you're supposed to wear for removing a cut out fuse you'd understand why, the issue is that the cut out can fail and arc.

And the protection at the substation isn't instantaneous it isn't there to protect you or your home, it is there to protect the DNOs assets, primarily the transformer that could be 500-600M away from where you are, so you could be talking upto 30seconds a transformer is feeding into the fault before the Feeder fuse ruptures or, the feeder suffers what is called burn back and the cable physically destroying itself clears the fault.

We wear two layers of arc flash clothing, LV rubber gloves and leather over gauntlets and an arc flash visor.

Certain cutouts aren't allowed to be worked on live due to them being known to fail and have unfortunately resulted in jointers losing their lives working on them.

This is why electricians will never be given the permission or authority to withdraw the service fuses and work in the cut out willy bully, the PPE alone for one individual is in excess of £2k.

 

[jpk]

Have you looked at the Hypervolt unit by any chance ?.
My local EV installer paid a visit to both mine and my brothers properties first.
He carried out a quick survey of our electrical set up before quoting on the EV install.
Recommending a gas and water ( CPC ) earth bonding cable size upgrade on our equipment, which was a "paid for" upgraded for us to settle.
The survey could be used to correctly access the suitability of the main cut out fuse and then the installer could make the request directly to the DNO to carry out the rework.
Or he may install the wall box and then notify the DNO of his findings on the rating of the main cut out fuse.
Reducing the max load the wall box can pull, until the main fuse has been upgraded ?.

I did but it was just a little too big for the wall where I want it installing

 

[BugEyed]

Does the Easter or the Simpson & partners support OCPP?

Both do. But they are the premium end of the market.

 

[Lovemyev]

If you saw the PPE you're supposed to wear for removing a cut out fuse you'd understand why, the issue is that the cut out can fail and arc.

I was really lucky enough to have witnessed a complete service head replacement by my local DNO only last year.
It was in my own home, from a fairly close distance of about two metres.
The service head and CU etc is mounted on the inside wall of my integral garage.
They removed the main cut out protection fuse first, then stripped out the old service head, then they working on the completely live side of the incoming underground cable to the service head.
The incoming supply was feed by a SWA cable, it had two large separate single core, aluminium conductors and a external CPC / Earth braided cable under the SWA protection.
It was a three man DNO team, one carrying out the service head replacement, who was wearing a LOT of the PPE equipment that you describe and then two others simply offering advice and watching every move he made, I think he was still in training TBH !.
It was very interesting to watch and the DNO guy's answered any questions that I asked them.
They where more interested in learning about my EV sitting on the drive really !.
For them it totally looked like a pure and simple "Gravy" job, but that is where the skills and training comes in I guess.
The whole job was completed ( plus a cup of tea thrown in ) in about 40 minutes, from start to finish.
My neighbour a few doors away, had his fuse upgraded by a sub contractor working for the DNO and they had the job done in less than 30 minutes.
They upgraded his meter tails and installed a 100 Amp DP isolation switch at the same time.
His EV installer was coming back to install his Zappi wall box the following week.
I believe it was the EV installer that contacted the DNO prior to his visit.
Similar situation with my next door neighbour, fuse upgrade first, then EV wall box installed at a latter date.
Mine was done the opposite way around, wall box fitted first, then fuse upgrade about two years latter, because I wanted to load shift more usage into my cheaper off peak rate !.
Our late night usage, would have been stretching the legs of our original 60 Amp fuse.
I feel much safer now that we are running on a 100 Amp cut out fuse TBH.
There was zero cost from the work from the DNO .
The hardest part, was getting an appointment from them !.

 

[Lovemyev]

I did but it was just a little too big for the wall where I want it installing

Was you looking to site it, on that pillar of brick work between the front door and the garage ?.
If so, it will fit there with no problem I think.
Where is your CU ( fuse box / meter ) located, in relation to that column of brick work @jpk ?.

 

[jpk]

Was you looking to site it, on that pillar of brick work between the front door and the garage ?.
If so, it will fit there with no problem I think.
Where is your CU ( fuse box / meter ) located, in relation to that column of brick work @jpk ?.

The door to the right of the brickwork is to a full length lean to and the CU is around 4.5m along that wall as shown in the photo with the lean to door open. Excuse the clutter ?

 

[Lovemyev]

From what I can see, that would appear to be a good solution !.
Most often, the cable run access is where all the time is taken doing a EV wall box install.
Mounting the wall box on the brick work to the right of the front door, then bring in the supply cable into your “lean” then clip the supply cable along the brick wall, then pop a hole through into the house, close to where your meter and CU ( fuse box ) is located.
It is likely going to take you longer to empty the “lean” than it will for the installer to run the cable ?.
He / she will need access along that wall if that is the chosen route.
Hypervolt do a black or high gloss coloured wall box I believe ?.
It’s a nice design and the LED’s on the front can be configured to your taste or even turned off altogether.
The unit is built in the U.K. and the customer service reports are very positive.
Check out @Alb review and pictures on his Hypervolt unit, very neat and tidy !.

 

[jpk]

Thanks everyone, it's been just great bouncing ideas & also getting advice/suggestions.

Went for the 'Simpsons and partners home 7 plus' with the WiFi load management in the end. The reasons being small form factor, great aesthetic customisation, and being untethered. I was always leaning towards untethered for a cleaner look plus I jumped on the Tesla app hack to buy a 3 phase 32a cable very cheap.

I've purchased the unit directly, got a fair quote from a local installer who's standard of work looks great, so should be fitted in the next 2 weeks.

I shown him all the photos & explained my current household loads & he's asking the dno to do a site visit when installing to assess my usage and he's sent the ENA (I don't know what that is!).

Fitting dedicated ev charger board with type a rcd and spd (inc cable, henly blocks etc) £100
Standard fitting fee £300

 

[Cocijo]

I did but it was just a little too big for the wall where I want it installing

It will fit if you move the plant?

 

[jpk]

It will fit if you move the plant?

I checked their website & if they sold an untethered they were going to be my first choice in the end if for nothing other than the led party mode ?

 

[Ayoull]

he's sent the ENA (I don't know what that is!).

It's the Energy Networks Association which is the DNO association that overseas all DNO engineering recommendations and best codes of practice, and also do all the type testing to make sure they're safe to use.

The form is basically the ENA form which tells the installer if he has to ask the DNO if it's okay to install or if he can do what is called fit and notify.