MG4 Lane Assist Rejection

Thanks for the
The latest software update (SE anyway) has it on a shortcut on the drag down menu. That’s likely the only solution for now I’m afraid.
Thanks for the tip, I hadn’t found the swipe down menu. It’s not on my SE though - see picture. Does the car tell you what software version is installed? The dealer said mine was up to date.
 

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Ncap uses the term Lane Support Systems containing the following sub systems:
  • lane departure warning (LDW):Alert option on MG4
  • Lane keep assist (LKA): lane departure assist on MG4
  • Emergency Lane Keeping (ELK): similar name and third assist mode on MG4
  • Blind Spot Monitoring (BSM)

The performance of the car in NCAP tests to keep it within lanes uses only an s-bended road at three different speeds. All possible systems are used, except BSM.
The maximum score is achieved if the car stays within a single lane during both parts of the s-bend.

ELK on the MG4 is defaulted, indicating that the MG systems do not score enough points to achieve a 5 star rating when ELK is NOT activated.

NCAP has admitted it needs more practical road testing to correctly judge these systems. Which for now leaves a lot of opportunities on the table where any of three systems create a risk instead of safety, and without affecting the NCAP score.
This is exactly why the user finds objective reasons (=systematic faults) to shut these systems off: where it may fit the s-bend but not in many others. But MG ignores this because it does not want to lose its ratings and NCAP still had no tests to point a finger....

The interesting thing is that all car manufacturers, including MG, know this and cover the risks associated with these faults by stating "the driver is always fully responsible". To strengthen their position most of them specify the conditions where the systems could be at fault.
Yet, they do not allow the driver of the car to TAKE full responsibility because they enforce defaulted systems known to be faulty.
Disabling these systems could be an escape road for the manufacturer. But it isn't when systems can only be canceled if taking the attention away from the road (e.g. going into the menu etc), as this is essentially a risk factor itself.

To be honoust, the Ombudsman should go for the true safety concerns and not for NCAP scoring of a manufacturer. But to make point, he/she needs practical examples where assisting systems add risk instead of safety and vice versa. For now, this information is lacking and NCAP isn't ready for it either.

Than there is also a sense of subjectiveness to being responsible. If, at any circumstance, you experience uncontrolable and non-logical actions of car, particularly in possibly hazardous situations, the sense of no longer being in control may cause fear. Fear in the car that may lead to a kind of behaviour that increases risks instead of reducing it. This allone could cause people to reject cars, solely on the anticipation of what could happen....(some already mentioned this here).

What we need to do is to describe as much as possible when systems actually fail. True, most of it will be anecdotical. But it will at least it help to make a proper statement.
 
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I must admit to being a bit bemused and intrigued by some of these reports, so fwiw here's my, albeit limited, experience to date and a few quick thoughts about it all:

I was concerned after reading these stories and have been paying particular attention to how our new Luxury (equiv. Trophy but with 11kW charger and heat pump) performed. On collection (26 Dec - a working day here in Spain) I checked it was on R46 and was assured all other updates had been applied.

Our experience with LKA so far is that it does nothing until you get to 60kph and then switches off if you drop below 55.

So, for us, the issues reported of unwanted LKA interventions on narrow country roads etc are a non starter; you simply wouldn't be doing that speed down a road like that normally (or if you did want to "hoon" down it then you'd accept having to turn off safety features such as this). So some reports of LKA interventions on narrow roads with ill defined kerbs are strange - or did the intervention trigger below 60kph or were you going over that speed?

Regarding the amount of intervention, at most if you deliberately cross a solid white line without indicating we get a beep using LDA as we approach the line, followed by a nudge of the wheel using ELK - nothing extreme at all and exactly enough for you to follow on with to get you back over. Enough of a shove with ELK, warranted under the circumstances, but no surprise if you were watching what you were doing and arguably highly warranted if you were not.

So - are we lucky? Are we (yrs truly & The Memsahib) bullish and just fight the LKA intervention back (I don't honestly think so)? Are some owners just a bit "sensitive"?

It's all a bit strange, as the car systems are (granted different production batches but one would assume the engineering tolerances were all the same and quality control ensured there were all within tolerance) - the obvious (easy) potential variable to blame is the software. Many, many, years of mechanical Production Engineering then IT Engineering & management tell me that the same version of software on the same version of hardware tend to work in the same way though.

So why, then, do a few people report "near death" experiences, while the majority (and bear in mind there are hundreds of satisfied owners who do not post on forums such as this) do not? What is the difference, if the car models are the same - software or user perception of the intervention?

To be fair, I could see that if you were not paying full attention then a ELK intervention could seem a bit excessive - but you'd need to honestly ask yourself "why did that happen?"

Equally it could be a combination of hardware (vehicle build) and software version causing an issue under certain input parameters. Without specifying in reports of perceived issues these factors it is hard to discern a pattern. You would need to know, at the bare minimum, the likes of model, year, software versions, speed, road width, road marking clarity, lighting, lighting angle, reflections, adjacent objects, steering input, acceleration / deceleration, speed, etc... to stand a chance of coming up with some kind of clue.

Without this kind of data, I fear, complaints to MG along the lines of "the wife had a nasty scare going around the corner by Tescos" will be impossible to handle.

How best, then, to actually pull this all together to see if there is a potentially serious problem?

Can you set up polls on this forum? If so, how about:
I've never had an unwarranted LKA intervention
I've had an LKA intervention but it was warranted and I understand why it happened
I've had an LKA intervention which I do not believe was warranted, but I do understand in hindsight why it happened.
I've had an LKA intervention which I do not believe was warranted and do not understand why it happened

Any suggestions?
 
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Well Burgo, I understand where you are going. But the fact that you did not experience a single moment that caught you by surprise, does not mean everyone has none either.

I will give you one example of todays surprise with ELK (which I forgot to disable). I was driving on an 80kmh road. In front of me a small pickup truck lost two parts, both falling on the road. I could barely readjust the steering wheel to force it out of the lane and avoid the blocks, because at first ELK forced me back straight towards the two blocks! It freaked the hell out of me....
 
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Well Burgo, I understand where you are going. But the fact that you did not experience a single moment that caught you by surprise,does not mean others did not.

I will give you one example of todays surprise with ELK (which I forgot to disable). I was driving on an 80kmh road. In front of me a small pickup truck lost two parts, both falling on the road. I could just barely readjust the steering wheel to force it out of the lane and avoid the blocks, because at first ELK forced me back straight towards the two blocks! It freaked the hell out of me....
Not having a go, but I'd cut the system some slack in that case and see that as it performed to spec. It saw a sudden deviation by you that took it towards the edge of the lane, and applied a warning then corrective assistance to put you back in the lane.

You could equally have written that "
. In front of me a small pickup truck lost two parts, both falling on the road. I swerved to miss them a bit too far and ELK luckily pushed me back over to my side of the road, stopping me going onto the other lane. It freaked the hell out of me..

We can't in all honesty expect it to detect and analysis an object(s) dropped in front of it and modify it's actions on that basis - or at least not for the cost of these cars!!
 
Burgos, I appreciate your point.
I'm not trying to kill these safety systems. If they work well, they can at least help us get home safely. NCAP doesn't call them 'support systems' by coincidence.

But it's the last sentence of your last reply that underlines the need for a change how the current systems are implemented on the MG4.
Indeed, ELK is not smart enough. If it's not, it should not add an unnecessary risk to any situation. Therefore, my personal opinion is that ELK should never be the default mode forced upon any driver. I can live with 'alert' or even 'LKA' as default because, as in this example of mine, I can easily overrule both of them if the system is wrong. But ELK is a different thing.
Then, if MG would allow us to save our choises permanently, you could use ELK all the time if you want. Otherwise you will have to go into the menus to set it. Personally, before I actually cross the line I prefer a good sound signal and a vibration in my steering wheel. Because that's what the MG is doing very well so far!
 
It does seem that experiences differ and it’s a good shout to share actual experiences. I have 2 main ones;

1. It pulls violently on the wheel when it detects some road markings, particularly centre hatched markings and at bends. This feels more like an emergency intervention, like someone reaching over and pulling the wheel, rather than the gentle reminder you get to stay in lane. I’m not sure if it’s detecting on coming cars at the same time.

2. When in cruise control it often brakes as I overtake (it must detect the vehicle in front), which isn’t great as it brake tests the cars behind me in the overtaking lane. I’ve reduced the adaptive distance to one bar but this also seems to reset.

Another dealer I contacted said it’s configured for roads in China that are wider than the UK!

Andy
 
It does seem that experiences differ and it’s a good shout to share actual experiences. I have 2 main ones;

1. It pulls violently on the wheel when it detects some road markings, particularly centre hatched markings and at bends.

2. When in cruise control it often brakes as I overtake (it must detect the vehicle in front),

Andy
The first one : it only happens with the default ELK.
The second one: true. But it isn't consistent. Yesterday I drove 200km on the highway and I did experience it when passing a couple of trucks. But it did not happen with road cars as far as I can remember. Size does matter....??
Whether it is a break test .... it was mild I think. But it shouldn't happen.
 
Thanks for the

Thanks for the tip, I hadn’t found the swipe down menu. It’s not on my SE though - see picture. Does the car tell you what software version is installed? The dealer said mine was up to date.
Yeah it’s not on mine either - my infotainment is on R13. You can see the current infotainment version in the settings menu. I can’t recall the specific option but it’s easy to find.

Dealers have a habit of giving out duff information about the car’s software…
 
1100R33 for the SE introduces the LDP (LKA) turn off/on feature for the SE. See my thread where I've posted photos of the screens.
 
From my experience I've only had lka activate above around 35mph so if you are doing 30mph it doesn't kick in anyway. And when you are above the speed it kicks in the adjustments are very minor not like being thrown into other cars as people describe. I did get the modules and software all updates on mine just after delivery for a different issue so maybe some updates made it less aggressive? I do wonder though if it shocks people more because they are used to disabling it every time, if you are used to it always being on it is less of a shock. I dont change any settings when I get in and have just got used to the defaults and enjoy the driving experience.
 

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