Nov 17th Budget - Tax impact for EVs

[Paulie68]

Just had a look on my V5C, the only thing on it really apart from weight is Max net power (KW) so either a flat charge or based on max net power?

As a Tesla S owner, I certainly hope they don't base it on maximum power!

 

[4ND]

As pure EV's are still ZERO emission,

No they're not. Biggest miff out there. They use stacks in production and end of life. Some say ~ 75% of an 'average' petrol car over the course of it's birth to death.

 

[Lovemyev]

Exactly.
That is precisely why we still have to fill in the VED form every year, even when it currently says £0.

This maybe very true, and there is me thinking that we are actively encouraged to invest in zero percentage emission motoring, by spending larger amounts of money on an electric car and also do our bit to reduce green house gases and pollution, then being asked to pay the very same duty as some fossil burning cars ??.
If we are charged even £20 that is the same duty has a ten year old oil burner ?.
Remember that, when you are following one up a hill, that has covered 100,000 miles and it is belching out that black, unburnt fuel from the exhaust and filling up your car with gases via your heater ducks.
Safe in the knowledge that we are now paying the same duty !.
Well done that government ( who every you are ).

 

[Fokmg]

I always smiled when I received the tax notification on my old Bentley T1 they kept telling me to buy a car with a smaller engine etc to save on road tax!. Seemed odd to me as a 6.75 litre V8 cost zero to tax!!! (There are so many loopholes in the existing system) The ecconomy on the road tax was somehow lost with 12 mpg !!!.
It will be interesting to see how they recoup tax for EVs. I must be remembered that the road tax is only a small fraction of the revenue generated. Somehow they are going to have to find away of taxing the Electric used as they collect approx £1/ litre on Diesel at the moment which means that they are going to loose £1500 - £2000 a year for everyone who swaps from ICE to EV .
Now let me think how are they goint to tax the sunshine that feeds my solar panels that feeds my EV ?

 

[4ND]

This maybe very true, and there is me thinking that we are actively encouraged to invest in zero percentage emission motoring, by spending larger amounts of money on an electric car and also do our bit to reduce green house gases and pollution, then being asked to pay the very same duty as some fossil burning cars ??.

Just hope it don't go down the same route as those poor incentivised 'dash for diesel' owners, now paying punishment fines for buying the vehicles they were encouraged to get

Personally, I wish I'd wake up in the morning and see the main headline being a ban on stinking log burners. Despise the things. Why should a neighbour's decision to buy one of them impact me: stinking the street out, closing windows as you know one of them got it on, smelling on drying clothes, light coloured car sprinkled with 'ash'. Granted some of this stuff is supposed to not be there if the correct stuff is burned, but it's nigh on impossible to police. No environmental health officer busts into someone's house to check how seasoned the old rocking horse chair bit of wood is.

 

[4ND]

Now let me think how are they goint to tax the sunshine that feeds my solar panels that feeds my EV ?

lol if there's a way they'll find it.

 

[NoSkill]

Way too many people thing current VED is based on CO2 emissions still

I always smiled when I received the tax notification on my old Bentley T1 they kept telling me to buy a car with a smaller engine etc to save on road tax!. Seemed odd to me as a 6.75 litre V8 cost zero to tax!!! (There are so many loopholes in the existing system) The ecconomy on the road tax was somehow lost with 12 mpg !!!.
It will be interesting to see how they recoup tax for EVs. I must be remembered that the road tax is only a small fraction of the revenue generated. Somehow they are going to have to find away of taxing the Electric used as they collect approx £1/ litre on Diesel at the moment which means that they are going to loose £1500 - £2000 a year for everyone who swaps from ICE to EV .
Now let me think how are they goint to tax the sunshine that feeds my solar panels that feeds my EV ?

Pay per mile tax is almost certainly going to happen at some point...

 

[tsedge]

No they're not. Biggest miff out there. They use stacks in production and end of life. Some say ~ 75% of an 'average' petrol car over the course of it's birth to death.

Zero tailpipe emission, which matters for local environmental pollution, particularly NOx and particulates.

But yes, making a new car is really bad for the environment (far better to extend the life of an old one) and recycling will be an issue, plus good proportion of the electricity comes from burning fossil fuels.

I am not getting an EV because of the environment, but because I think they are better cars (performance, safety, space, reliability, technology).

 

[Kithmo]

Pay per mile tax is almost certainly going to happen at some point...

Bring it on, I only do 2.5k a year.

 

[Macadoodle]

Pay per mile tax is almost certainly going to happen at some point...

I'm sure that's the ultimate goal, just wonder how they'll put together a system that can't be evaded ?
GPS tracking ? so easy to block weak signals in the ghz range, bit of tinfoil over the receiver would do it.
Cameras on gantry ANPR system ? more difficult to evade for sure.

MOT mileage based ? There's always going to be a way to 'adjust' mileage, especially if it saves you thousands.

Tax the actual electricity you're putting in your vehicle battery ? Not sure how that can ever work, tons of ways to dodge it.

I think just hitting us with an eye watering VED of a grand or more yearly is the simplest and hardest to evade solution for them.
Although I have heard that the police no longer pursue VED dodgers, not that I've tested this

 

[Ian Key]

Although I have heard that the police no longer pursue VED dodgers, not that I've tested this

The DVLA have to bring the prosecution for avoidance of paying VED as I don't think it's classed as a criminal offence but as tax avoidance and if you pay what's owed they don't take it any further.

 

[Paulie68]

No they're not. Biggest miff out there. They use stacks in production and end of life. Some say ~ 75% of an 'average' petrol car over the course of it's birth to death.

It's way less than that.

 

[Paulie68]

Just hope it don't go down the same route as those poor incentivised 'dash for diesel' owners, now paying punishment fines for buying the vehicles they were encouraged to get

Personally, I wish I'd wake up in the morning and see the main headline being a ban on stinking log burners. Despise the things. Why should a neighbour's decision to buy one of them impact me: stinking the street out, closing windows as you know one of them got it on, smelling on drying clothes, light coloured car sprinkled with 'ash'. Granted some of this stuff is supposed to not be there if the correct stuff is burned, but it's nigh on impossible to police. No environmental health officer busts into someone's house to check how seasoned the old rocking horse chair bit of wood is.

Entirely agree on log burners, hideous things...

 

[4ND]

Or the budget

I am not getting an EV because of the environment, but because I think they are better cars (performance, safety, space, reliability, technology).

I like it when people such as yourself lay it out like that.
Quite the contrary to some who claim to get one on the altar of Greta, becoming all self important, and conveniently forgetting their miles in their prior or current ICE cars (over the last 10 years since EVs have been around), and nice flying foreign holidays

 

[NoSkill]

I'm sure that's the ultimate goal, just wonder how they'll put together a system that can't be evaded ?
GPS tracking ? so easy to block weak signals in the ghz range, bit of tinfoil over the receiver would do it.
Cameras on gantry ANPR system ? more difficult to evade for sure.

MOT mileage based ? There's always going to be a way to 'adjust' mileage, especially if it saves you thousands.

Tax the actual electricity you're putting in your vehicle battery ? Not sure how that can ever work, tons of ways to dodge it.

I think just hitting us with an eye watering VED of a grand or more yearly is the simplest and hardest to evade solution for them.
Although I have heard that the police no longer pursue VED dodgers, not that I've tested this

Yeah, massive VED would be easiest. Wouldn't be surprised to see a tax on public chargers similar to fuel duty either really, hard to tax charging otherwise but public chargers would be easy to just add on to the cost.

GPS + ANPR I think would be the simplest, basically have the ANPR as a backup, if your car is pictured via ANPR and the GPS disagrees then get a fine... Susceptible to cloned plates but that's often appealable...

 

[tsedge]

Yeah, massive VED would be easiest. Wouldn't be surprised to see a tax on public chargers similar to fuel duty either really, hard to tax charging otherwise but public chargers would be easy to just add on to the cost.

GPS + ANPR I think would be the simplest, basically have the ANPR as a backup, if your car is pictured via ANPR and the GPS disagrees then get a fine... Susceptible to cloned plates but that's often appealable...

Yes, they will use ANPR for sure because it is cheap and easy. No way they are going to build old fashioned tolls.

 

[4ND]

Remember that, when you are following one up a hill, that has covered 100,000 miles and it is belching out that black, unburnt fuel from the exhaust and filling up your car with gases via your heater ducks.
Safe in the knowledge that we are now paying the same duty !.

Also safe in the knowledge that it would have used less Greta emissions in its production, and in its death.

Also, try putting your heating vents on interior recirculation instead of external pull in, if behind it

 

[Lovemyev]

Also, try putting your heating vents on interior recirculation instead of external pull in, if behind it

Yeah - That's a "Top Tip" folks !.
I do the same when we drive past the fairly local, water ( Poo ) treatment plant that somebody at the local planning department, decided was a great place to build right alongside the A55 expressway.
That is the main artery into North Wales .
My wife openly admits to knowing nothing about cars, but when ever spots either a car or a van chuffing out plumes of black smoke from it's exhaust, she is heard to say :- "Look at that smoke, how the hell did he / she get MOT on that thing then - Hey ?".
I must have heard it a hundred times and it still makes me laugh .
Not the smoke, but her attitude towards badly maintained vehicles.

 

[dave99]

I hadn't realised how high car tax was these days, I'm still driving a 2013 diesel which comes in at £30/year. I'd be happy paying that on an EV, I think much more than that is wrong at this time while trying to convince people to move away from fossil fuels

 

[Lovemyev]

£30/year. I'd be happy paying that on an EV

Happy - Why ?.
Happy, just because it is much lower than what other fossil burning vehicles on the road today I guess ?.
Your not getting any sort of "Billy Bargain" here.
Asking what appears to be a small duty on electric cars, is only the thin edge of the wedge.
Getting there foot in the door first, then it's a free ticket to print money at every single budget.
Start off cheap at first ( like they did with the oil burners ) now look where we are !.
Derv fuel was always regarded at a more simple stage of producing and refining petrol.
Similar to aviation fuel etc.
It has now become more expensive that higher octane petrol grades !.
There is just something altogether wrong with whole concept of the system, if we now accepting that it is okay to pay the same duty on less emission friendly 2013 oil burner, compared to a zero rated emissions of a electric car, that carried a much higher purchasing cost over its fossil counter parts.
It's all about the money - honey !.