Nov 17th Budget - Tax impact for EVs

[4ND]

There is just something altogether wrong with whole concept of system, if we now accepting that it is okay to pay the same duty on less emission friendly 2013 oil burner, compared to a zero rated emissions of a electric car, that carried a much higher purchasing cost over its fossil counter parts.

I wouldn't worry too much, maybe it's VED due to the mass co2 'oil burning' in the EV's production and end of life. As mentioned, over their life cycle they are pushing 75% the emission of an 'oil burner'.
And moreover, if they use the same roads, they should pay tax. If they don't then the Gov't will have to make it up elsewhere, and people who don't buy an EV shouldn't subsidise those that do. If a car's (or any product) is good enough, it shouldn't need tax payer hand outs of any kind to convince people to buy it.

 

[Macadoodle]

It is indeed all about money, the government doesn't have any of it's own so constantly has to dream up ways of pinching ours.
The greenwash BS government support for EV's was only going to last as long as it didn't eat into the tax take too much, they're now getting a little nervous.
If and when I get my MG4, I'm just gonna enjoy the 'much cheapness' while it lasts, recognising we're on borrowed time.

 

[4ND]

My own guess, for what it's worth, is that the 2030 date will be pushed back. Maybe blind optimism on my part, but I reckon it will.

 

[Macadoodle]

My own guess, for what it's worth, is that the 2030 date will be pushed back. Maybe blind optimism on my part, but I reckon it will.

Say whaaaaaaatt ?????? are you seriously suggesting a government is capable of a screeching u turn. Sacrilege.

 

[mj224]

No reason why we EV drivers should get off lightly. In theory, roads need to be paid for. Alas, the Road tax has just become just a tax, so little movement there. IF we have to pay per mile, then ICE's should be relieved of the tax on petrol/diesel. Which would make ICE's even more attractive. So that ain't gonna happen. Just face it, with current and future financial *u*ks up, we are all gonna pay more tax until there is little left to drive with anyway..........

 

[Lovemyev]

And moreover, if they use the same roads, they should pay tax.

On a similar subject of road user who SHOULD be paying VED and some hat clearly do not.
There has been for a LONG time now, a very large group of people who let's just say "like to "travel around the UK".
Then find a suitable place to park, usually on private land etc, who are clearly uninvited guest's and then proceed to set up camp !.
These "people on the move" almost never pay any VED on these vehicle, and are using the same roads as everybody else.
This has been a trend for many many years now.
It also very possible that these vehicles, also don't have any car insurance / MOT's either.
The police know these people are using vehicles on the road without the necessary legal doc's or even likely paying any duty on the type of ( pink ) fuel they are using in their tanks.
But the police are almost totally power less to serve them with any type of fines etc, because they know it is a complete waste of their time doing so.
These people are registered at no permanent address of course, making posting fines a little difficult.
Moving them along normally takes about 14 days, because the police needs an injunction severed from a judge, in order to do so, and they know it !.
Just before this dead line is reached, they have left in the middle of the night, leaving a total mess for the local council to clear up, at the rate payers expense ( another non payment ) and also by avoiding any legal action against them !.
Kicking the can along the road, I believe is the expression used today ?.
IF the VED had been dropped years ago and then integrated into the price of fuel at the pump, then duty avoidance would have just disappeared over night.
As soon as you purchase fuel, you where automatically paying duty regardless.
This would avoided any of the "VED dodging" we have seen for far too long in the past.
If you used the roads a lot, then you naturally paid more than somebody who did not ?.
Sounds a better and fair system to me ?.
Arahhhhh ......... But wait, we are forgetting something here.
The government receives funds from both the VED and the huge income tax gained on the fossil fuel sales, so it was unwilling to drop the revenue received from the cost of VED at that time and wanted ( and got ) both forms of revenue.
All water under the bridge now I am afraid folks !.
As the ship has sadly sailed WELL into the sun set on this opportunity.

 

[Deleted member 10041]

As more and more EV's are on the road the government loses revenue. I agree that we should pay something, we are using the same roads and avoiding paying duty on fuel proper head in the sand stuff to think this isn't coming some day soon

 

[siteguru]

No reason why we EV drivers should get off lightly. In theory, roads need to be paid for. Alas, the Road tax has just become just a tax, so little movement there. IF we have to pay per mile, then ICE's should be relieved of the tax on petrol/diesel. Which would make ICE's even more attractive. So that ain't gonna happen. Just face it, with current and future financial *u*ks up, we are all gonna pay more tax until there is little left to drive with anyway..........

It's not Road Tax, and hasn't been for decades. It's Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) and is just another form of general taxation. Little (or perhaps None) of it is ring-fenced for the roads infrastructure.

 

[McPhee]

About the worst I would expect is the immediate application of VED to all BEVs registered on or after 01/04/17, alongside the application of the additional rate for all new registrations, where the list price is over £40k. BEVs will either attract the alternative fuels rate, or be given a new, lower, rate.

Though what I'm expecting is VED for new registrations from April.

 

[Gomev]

Exactly.
That is precisely why we still have to fill in the VED form every year, even when it currently says £0.

Same as London congestion charge, etc.

 

[Gomev]

...

Though what I'm expecting is VED for new registrations from April.

I'm not, unless you meant April 2025.

 

[4ND]

No reason why we EV drivers should get off lightly. In theory, roads need to be paid for. Alas, the Road tax has just become just a tax, so little movement there. IF we have to pay per mile, then ICE's should be relieved of the tax on petrol/diesel. Which would make ICE's even more attractive. So that ain't gonna happen. Just face it, with current and future financial *u*ks up, we are all gonna pay more tax until there is little left to drive with anyway..........

In fairness though, in 'COVID', there were months and months and months of people walking their dogs, decorating at home, enjoying the early summer sun, and getting paid 80% of so of their salary (up to £2,500 a month) for doing so. Ditto for businesses. Think of it as months and months of much of the entire country getting say up to £2.5K a month dole. That's got to be paid for. And now 6 months + of paying a decent portion of people's energy bills (via the price cap), not to mention even decent earners getting £400 per household. That costs billions too.
There's no such things as 'Gov't money' or free money, so everyone got to pay for it eventually.

 

[Lovemyev]

Five lock downs in Wales Due to C19 and cars with fully paid up VED going nowhere.
Same with the car insurance premium's.
Insurance companies absolutely loving it !.
Accidents and pay outs at an all time low due to no / restricted travel arrangements.
Did we receive an refunds due to the necessary lack of use ?.
Did we hell .
In fact, my insurance company though it was a good idea to increase my premium the following year, the cheeky sod’s !.
That did not happen, I moved company.

 

[4ND]

Five lock downs in Wales Due to C19 and cars with fully paid up VED going nowhere.
Same with the car insurance premium's.
Insurance companies absolutely loving it !.
Accidents and pay outs at an all time low due to no / restricted travel arrangements.
Did we receive an refunds due to the necessary lack of use ?.
Did we hell .
In fact, my insurance company though it was a good idea to increase my premium the following year, the cheeky sod’s !.
That did not happen, I moved company.

Very true.
Thing with VED though, is as it isn't based on per mile, if you can/intend to use it (and hence is not SORNED) the system is you pay it.
There's a million silly things which a system is too big to handle. Why is it fair if someone don't watch the BBC they still have to pay a £160 or so licence fee, or face fines. In what universe is that fair lol And is something which would never be introduced now if it didn't already exist and be so intrenched.

 

[Lovemyev]

Very true.
Thing with VED though, is as it isn't based on per mile, if you can/intend to use it (and hence is not SORNED) the system is you pay it.
There's a million silly things which a system is too big to handle. Why is it fair if someone don't watch the BBC they still have to pay a £160 or so licence fee, or face fines. In what universe is that fair lol And is something which would never be introduced now if it didn't already exist and be so intrenched.

 

[awbugritt]

The only fair way is on milage, and I'll bet any money with all the electronic gubbins most vehicles are festooned with nowadays the Government will find some way of accessing data from it.

 

[Lovemyev]

The only fair way is on milage, and I'll bet any money with all the electronic gubbins most vehicles are festooned with nowadays the Government will find some way of accessing data from it.

They already have it in place now ! ( after three years ).
Your mileage is recorded and logged each time you submit your car for its annual MOT check.
This info is already uploaded to the DVLA database and then this could be used to send out a bill, that will be based on the actual mileage covered, in that calendar year.
The charges could be set into three “Mileage Covered Bands” for low, medium and high user cases to keep it simple.
The first three years could see motor dealers upload the info when the car is submitted for its annual services.
It’s certainly not that hard to adopt something like this idea surely ??.
Use what you already have in place !.

 

[4ND]

The first three years could see motor dealers upload the info when the car is submitted for its annual services.

You don't have to have a car serviced at a dealership, even when under warranty, so long as the place you go to use genuine parts. So that would mean every independent/back street garage would have to have the tech, too.

 

[Lovemyev]

You don't have to have a car serviced at a dealership, even when under warranty, so long as the place you go to use genuine parts. So that would mean every independent/back street garage would have to have the tech, too.

If it’s a certified EV service station like the EVRA facilities, they could surely upload the mileage reports anyway.
I doubt anybody with a brand new EV will be using a back street garage for there servicing needs to be honest.
Maybe for the first three years, the owner / company would be responsible for uploading there own mileage use and charged accordingly ?.
Any irregularity at the first MOT would trigger a demand and fine sending to the person responsible for uploading the data per year.
The DVLA has the owners details on record o on the V5 of course.
It’s “doable” I think !.
It will be a much fairer system end VED evasion in a single stroke !.

 

[Vipar]

Although I have heard that the police no longer pursue VED dodgers, not that I've tested this.
You need to watch the t/v police programs more often. They use to NR System.

PS I love my smelly log burner

I did not buy my EV to save money on road fund tax but on cost from A to B