Steering gone on my 2021 ZS EV

[jamesie]

It is crazy that the facelifts still have issues.

Where's the continuous improvement processes at the factory?

Not a good look for MG.

I would guess from MG's point of view that they would look at the failure rate before making changes/upgrades.

What appears to be a high percentage of failure from the evidence of a forum could be tiny when looking at the whole picture.

 

[Bodgerx]

I would guess from MG's point of view that they would look at the failure rate before making changes/upgrades.

What appears to be a high percentage of failure from the evidence of a forum could be tiny when looking at the whole picture.

True, but not everyone also jumps on a forum every time they have problems.

If there's actual mechanical failures over extended period, my guess is this is more than just a bad batch applying to a specific manufacturering period.

 

[Lovemyev]

My guess would be, that MG dealers are dealing with problem on a purely individual basis.
Investigate the customer complaint, then wait for MG themselves to provide the necessary permission for the dealer to order the parts.
Then after a long wait for the parts, install the replacement steering column ( that includes the troublesome UJ joint ) and ship the car out !.
MG themselves must be a acutely aware of just how many steering columns they are authorising to get replaced surely !.
I guess there will be a tipping point in the process, when somebody starts asking the question .
“Why are we replacing all of these steering columns prematurely on brand new cars ?”.
I have said this before, but I was a little surprised when problem was first identified on the Gen1 models, so early in the life of the car.
Also, even more surprised to find that the steering column assembly was a Bosch unit !.
But after saying that, the UJ joint section of the column is probably sub contracted out anyway.
Rarely does motor manufactures have a single point of supply of car parts.
Not wanting to have all of their eggs in one basket, so to speak.
Not every single car appears to be affected by this problem, so it is very likely that only one of the supplies are to blame here.
If so, it should be easy enough to identify which supplier is at fault.
Or is it just easier to switch out the faulty parts on the effected cars and move on !.
I would suspect that this is the mind set to be honest.
Problem here is of course, you could end up getting another defective component fitted onto your car !.
As we all know, the parts supply problem is extremely difficult right now, so shutting down one of your many suppliers, is very unlikely to happen in this current climate.
MG will be asking for reimbursement of these items from the supplier at fault and will happy to accept that.
Keeping the production lines going is more important to them, than replacing a few steering columns !.
The fact that these replacement steering columns are on long back order, goes some way to supports my theory.
Every steering column they take from baulk stock in China, to supply to U.K. dealers, could mean another new car can not be built.
We are about two years down the road since this problem was first identified on the Gen1 model and it is now transferred over into the Gen2 facelift.
If they intended to do anything to resolve this issue 100% then it would have been totally rectified by now.
Again, clearly they are only dealing with issue on a individual one by one warranty claim basis.
There is definitely either a design or more likely, an assembly issue with these UJ joints.
Lower steering column joints are rarely replaced in the life cycle of a car.
So, replacing them on a car that has only covered a very short mileage is NOT normal and identifies that there is a problem, with out any question in my mind.

 

[Paulie68]

It is crazy that the facelifts still have issues.

Where's the continuous improvement processes at the factory?

Not a good look for MG.

I don't think the Chinese think that way. More like they now know 1%, or whatever, of the steering joints are going to be faulty, but will fit them all anyway to save money and those who notice and complain about it will get them changed out under warranty, less fussy owners who don't notice, won't. These cars are great value, but we also need to accept they're from a very different culture to the western way of doing business. Western brands made in and with QC overseen in China is a different kettle of fish entirely to SAIC/MG who are owned by the Chinese Government with no western QC at point of manufacturing.

 

[Alb]

I think that's an overly pessimistic view.
It might ring true if SAIC only sold this car to the domestic market but their desired market is international and it will disappear rapidly if the cars come to be viewed as inferior from a quality perspective.

 

[Toolman]

So far Gen 1 fail 131

Gen2

15/10/21 331 LR Trophy
26/10/21 334 LR Trophy connect
12/11/21 331 SR Trophy
06/11/21 331 SR Trophy
10/08/21 331 SR Trophy
13/12/21 331 LR

Would be nice to get a few connects to confirm 334

This is the sticker on my Gen2 LRTC, so far no noise or play in the steering but only done 150 miles so will be keeping a close eye on it.

 

[AK OK]

Has anyone had this on Gen2? My steering sounds like it’s “knocking” or “clicking” at times.

MG ZS Steering Fault - clicking when turning

Lots on the forum about folks having the same issue. Including myself. Been waiting well over 5 weeks so far no parts arrived. Don’t hesitate to bring to MG

www.mgevs.com

 

[Nutnut]

Yes, started around 1000 kms, been in the garage for a fortnight waiting for 'information from MG' on how to fix it and now apparently 'waiting parts'.

As there is no indication of if/when the parts (read: Steering column) will arrive, we went and returned the loan Corsa they gave us and recovered our MG telling them to call us when the part comes in - little point in it sitting in the garage waiting for months on end while I'm putting expensive fuel into a small, poorly spec'd (albeit brand new - arrived with 33km on the clock) loan car.

The outcome posted on a new thread, for anyone following this steering issue

... and it no longer clicks on every turn, yay! We had to wait almost six months for the replacement steering column to arrive from China, but the garage called as soon as it did and got the car in at the earliest opportunity. It;s so much nicer to drive.

Whilst it was there we asked them to update the BMS and any other software that was out of date - it took an extra day as everything was 'at least one revision behind, some were more'. According to my wife who went to collect it, they updated around 12 different software packages! Sadly, although the car now has the latest updates across the board, it didn't solve the 'service due' triangle issue which still comes on, regular as clockwork, every month or every 1000kms; they have reported this to MG but I doubt it will make any difference - it seems to be a problem that most of us ZS gen 2 owners are stuck with, at least it's not really onerous to 'silence' it once a month.

After driving around with clicky steering for the last six months, it feels a little strange to have it behaving 'normally' now

We're still waiting for a replacement driver's seat to arrive from China, but that's just a cosmetic issue caused by the driver when the car was delivered and doesn't affect the driveability at all, so happy to wait for a while longer for that to arrive. So overall, we're feeling quite happy this morning.

 

[ARealHuman]

Still waiting for the upper steering column part for my gen1 ZS. It had the lower part replaced some time ago which resolved the issue for a short time. Been waitng months for the part, but the car is driveable and I do enjoy using it (and in retrospect, glad I cancelled the MG4!).

 

[Tim Green]

I am surprised this issue has not been raised more in the press. Early failure of such a critical part is very unusual and dangerous. Also, UJ's are so common and normally very reliable that it makes me wonder whether the joints are being used outside their normal performance limits -such as operating angles, etc.

When driving my car I am super conscious of the column but so far have not heard any clicks or whatever. If I hear one click I will be off to the supplier garage the same day.

 

[Seve]

Have a steering knock on my ZS EV, diagnosed by dealer as a replacement steering column required, had an update from dealer this week, still waiting delivery from China! apparently local dealer has 5 cars waiting for new steering column ! its been 7 weeks now, I've emailed MG UK, one; received an apologetic email, apparently shortage of chips!!!!!
Not impressed

 

[Flat top]

Have a steering knock on my ZS EV, diagnosed by dealer as a replacement steering column required, had an update from dealer this week, still waiting delivery from China! apparently local dealer has 5 cars waiting for new steering column ! its been 7 weeks now, I've emailed MG UK, one; received an apologetic email, apparently shortage of chips!!!!!
Not impressed

This is getting very concerning now. There's another post ref this very topic. Is yours a gen 2?

 

[Seve]

Mine is a Gen1 2 years old

 

[Tim Green]

Yes, worth reading the other post, or could they be combined?
One could consider re-building the column with new UK parts (if available, of course, eg Hardy-Spicer?).

However, then MG China could wash their hands of the problem.

 

[Tim Green]

Another thought, should we be lubricating the U/J's?

 

[Lovemyev]

Another thought, should we be lubricating the U/J's?

The needle roller bearings / cups on the UJ joint are pre lub/d with grease on assembly.
Larger UJ’s have a greasing nipple point, but the smaller ones are unable to accommodate this facility.
It’s not been established why these UJ’s are prematurely wearing out, as far as I am aware.
Some evidence on the forum, that the joints on certain cars, have completely collapsed.

 

[Tim Green]

Yes, that is what made me think they may be working outside their specification. Eg, angle of operation too acute, too much load, combination of both, or longitudinal pressure too great due to incorrect installation. The last might explain common but not universal failure?

 

[Lovemyev]

Yes, that is what made me think they may be working outside their specification. Eg, angle of operation too acute, too much load, combination of both, or longitudinal pressure too great due to incorrect installation. The last might explain common but not universal failure?

When you first study the tight angle of attack of that upper steering coupling UJ then combined, with second steep angle of attack where the lower UJ attaches to the steering rack, then yes I can totally understand your view point.
When they are assembled in the factory, you would expect them to be all done in the same production line fashion.
Which lead me to believe that the UJ joint(s) has a pre assembly issue.
Manufactures rarely have a single supply chain, so only MG can identify if an issue could be lying here.
I am willing to bet the fault lies with either the assembly of the UJ's into the steering coupling or even some metal fatigue present in the UJ's themselves.
On some of the pictures have seen, the bearing cup(s) have shattered and lost the needle roller bearings.
The play in the yoke then becomes SO massive, the inner cross section of the joint, becomes detached from the yoke and then falls away.
At this point, there is no connection between the steering wheel / steering rack and therefore the road wheels.
Before it reaches this drastic point of failure, there will be warnings signs that something is wrong.
i.e :- An increasing amount of a side to side play at the steering wheel, with little reaction at the road wheels.
Also a greater feeling of vagueness at the steering wheel, when driving will be very evident.
You could notice you are correcting the steering wheel a lot more, to keep the car on the straight and narrow, when travelling on a straight / smooth & level road.
A simple very basic check you can carry out.
Power up the car and put down the drivers window, leave the car.
Now put your left hand through the open window, now pitch the steering wheel gently with two of your fingers and your thumb.
Rock the steering wheel very very SLIGHTLY in a side to side motion, in a rocking action.
While doing this, look down at the road wheels, are they responding in the very same fashion.
Reacting to this very slight movement of the steering wheel ?.
If the steering wheel is rocking, by side to side movement, but your road wheel are not, then you have likely highlighted play between the steering wheel and the road wheels.
This needs to be urgently checked by the dealer.
If you think you have detected any of these symptoms, then get it checked by a qualified person without delay !.
My previous ZS EV Gen1 had the "Ticking / Clicking" noise after about a 1,000 miles and became louder, as time marched on.
I am a long time retired tech, so I do have an good insight at what point it changes from being a simple "tick" at the wheel, to when something is seriously wrong with the car and close to failing.
Complete failure of your brakes or your steering system, is about as serious as it gets really.
Take no chances, if you are in doubt what so ever, please report it.

 

[Tim Green]

What U/J's really do not like is logitudinal pressure through the column. This is because the pressure is looking for movement, but nothing can move logitudinally, so the U/J is forced to kink, and the kink must transfer to each yoke as it is rotated. This does horrible damage, particularly to the needle roller casings which tend to disintegrate, losing the rollers, at which point the central cross piece can totally disengage from the yokes and all control is lost. In this application, if the steering wheel locating assembly is not not set properly when the column is fitted, it is possible that continuous pressure is being passed down the column. (You will probably know that vehicle prop shafts have a greased sliding spine at the gearbox end, to ensure this cannot happen.) As the steering wheel subassembly is also moveable by the driver, I suggest nasty combinations are probably possible if the assembly is not perfect.

 

[Lovemyev]

What U/J's really do not like is logitudinal pressure through the column. This is because the pressure is looking for movement, but nothing can move logitudinally, so the U/J is forced to kink, and the kink must transfer to each yoke as it is rotated. This does horrible damage, particularly to the needle roller casings which tend to disintegrate, losing the rollers, at which point the central cross piece can totally disengage from the yokes and all control is lost. In this application, if the steering wheel locating assembly is not not set properly when the column is fitted, it is possible that continuous pressure is being passed down the column. (You will probably know that vehicle prop shafts have a greased sliding spine at the gearbox end, to ensure this cannot happen.) As the steering wheel subassembly is also moveable by the driver, I suggest nasty combinations are probably possible if the assembly is not perfect.

I totally argree with your line of thought and views on this subject and like your line of thinking on this subject !.
Forum members have very kindly provided pictures of the attachment fixings that clearly show that the outer steering column assembly is attached by two bolts, that pass through two sliding packers and into two fixed points in the body shell / under dash rail of the car.
It has no telescopic properties that can be adjustable by the driver, therefore the pick up points for the steering column, to the body shell mounting positions are fixed and so is the column.
We already can see that the outer steering column assembly, is bolted to the body structure by two bolts, picking up solid fixing points.
These locations pick up points, appear to have sliding packers, with slotted holes produced in each packet, on each side of the outer steering column.
Bolts pass through these packers but they only allow alignment adjustment in a left to right, transverse motion.
Very little allowance for any longitude travel that could apply excess pressure onto the steering column UJ joints I think.
We are left guessing and shooting in the dark, because nobody appears to be investigating why these UJ’s are failing prematurely ?.